PM Thread #4

[Can it work]

((((((((((PM))))))))))

That's a big hug for you to thank you for your ongoing support. You're a wonderfully strong person who deserves happiness. Your strength to keep going in the face of such adversity is astounding. If you're not ready to throw in the towel yet, don't. That's the simple answer. I agree with what Tx says in that maybe it's time to try a whole new approach. Have you talked to a DB coach lately? Maybe they can give you a new direction. I think you've really succeeded in finding yourself and now just have to find a new way to attract your DAM.

The gift is interesting. I would definitely see that as a plus point. Don't make a big deal of it though. I'm going to be interested to see what transpires on my birthday next Thursday. Hopefully my W will remember at the very least! I imagine she'll probably just get me something from Wee Man but you never know. Watch this space.

My last thread locked PM so I've strated another one called, "A new thread, a new outlook...". Feel free to visit.

Keep smiling.

Kev

[hope3343]

PM, how are you.
That coffee was a surprise. With waywards we have to look at baby steps. I know in some cases they just have an awakening but most the time it takes awhile to come out of the fog.

Looking at your time line it has been a year. These A start out exciting but then they start to crack. They are no longer on best behavior and their real character starts to show through. The BS starts to look better especially with the changes we make.

Just observe. stay quiet and see what transpires when H comes over. You are in my prayers.

[25yearsmlc]

PM,

Get a DB coach asap b/c they're totally worth it. If I could only do one of the many things I did to help my m, it would be that. They were specific and timely and comparatively, not that pricey. I got a pkg of 3 and per hour, it was about the same where I live.

The coffee? Um, sorry, but so what? It was a polite gesture. I mean, was there a note saying "I"m sorry for being such an ass. Now I get it. I LOVE YOU and I'm IN LOVE WITH YOU"? No offense, but big deal. Say "thanks" and mean it, and let it go...better yet, drink it. Enjoy!! That's it. Stop reading into this stuff. Why? Because it confuses you, obviously and slows your progress. So he got all the kids gifts and got you a little something too (and honey, it wasn't a pearl necklace)...

You'll KNOW if and when he's ready b/c he'll SHOW you in obvious ways like um...TELLING YOU!! There won't be mystery. It's up to HIM to do that part of the story, PM, do you see why? Do you see why you'd have to have clarity from him? And so, you don't have to wonder and wonder anymore. Until if and when you get clarity from him that overcomes the OTHER obvious stuff...then you have your answer. You just don't like it. Sorry.

You'll get through this. You really will. Don't know why you are so obvious with the h about the school applications. It's too obviously a ploy/tactic instead of a real change in you. I did apply to schools for teaching jobs, in ITALY and really got truly excited that I could finally, for the first time EVER, work where I wanted to work. I said NOTHING to h about it. It was for ME and my freedom and finally seeing the upside of not having to put His career ahead of everything else.
Yeah, he found out. He didn't say anything about it to me for months but he sure started coming around faster...

I meant it though. See? that's the difference. It was REAL change for me. Not a tactic. heck, it 's the one bad side of him and us restoring the M is that I can't go live there now. Dang! ALMOST makes you wish you could reconcile in 2 years....(kidding, mostly....)

But we ARE taking a trip next month to visit d20 and we're going to Italy then, together!! So do the things you can and want and must do, FOR YOU. You'll be surprised at what the universe throws your way.

(( j ))

PS now I feel like watching "Under the Tuscan Sun" again...yep, it's a chick flick night for sure!! If YOU have not seen it, for God's sake go get it!

[25yearsmlc]

PS

Pos Mom,

what's it gonna take for you to try a real 180? Him divorcing you? By then it may be too late.

And that's assuming you'd still want this marriage, which from the sounds of it, you are starting to view more accurately, with the whole adrenaline/excitement needs he has and how much you'll always worry even if you are "together"...but again, you've supposedly DBd for a long time. I say "Supposedly" b/c real DBing calls for doing what works and NOT what does not work and monitoring results... from what I can see, you are doing the same stuff as before, minus the recriminations of the beginning...

Soooo, what will it take for YOU to do something different? Or are you waiting for him to do something for you to "react" to again? And isn't that part of the problem anyhow? If and when he wants the marriage to work, He'll MAKE it work or he won't. And who the hell wants a half ass "effort" after what you've gone through? I sure wouldn't. Don't lower your standards so much. He'll meet them...

(( j ))

[karen43]

Don't lower your standards so much. He'll meet them

Or you will find someone who will!!!! You've got lots of great posters here, PM. I do think you have to come to dropping the rope at your own time. You may want to take baby steps into looking into a move. A lot of stuff now you can do online, or maybe a visit there to check out places to live or work or whatever. You don't have to 100% commit today, but just maybe move baby steps in that direction if you feel like it. But yeah, the focus should be on you and what you want to do with your life, and not your H's reactions to it or anything about your H. Karen

[PositivelyMommy]

Hi MLC and Karen,

Thanks for your posts. The reason I want to tell him about the school applications is that the father also has to sign the application. I can't put them in just under my name, otherwise I would have paid the application fee and put their names down already. And since our IC has been talking about a real convo in his office, I have been waiting for that to happen before dropping the bomb on H. It's definitely not a tactic. I am REALLY considering going home. We have a house near my parents that we are renting out so the kids and I can move into there. I really liked the school I visited. So I have made concrete steps in that direction. The only question is timing, really. When and how soon? Because, like I said before, the move will be for good. We probably won't be coming back. So in essence, I will be giving up my life here and probably H as well. So it's not JUST a move, it's a commitment to a new future without H.

You may all think that heck, if he wants to be with you, he will just move to be with you. But in reality, that is 99%-99.9% unlikely. My H now defines himself by his job. I KNOW he would rather lose his family than his career. So if I were a betting gal, I would be that he would stay with his job and let our family move away. His justification would be - hey, they chose to leave me, nothing I can do about it. But in reality, he would be choosing his career over us.

So if I want to keep this M, I will need to stay here and work at it. That is, if I believe there is a future down the road. If I don't, then I will up and move home. No use waiting around for nothing to happen and also watching my H wasting his life away on OW and abandoning his former values. Can't bear to watch H lie to the kids either.

I have had several appointments with DB coaches and I have another one on Tuesday. I will see what she says.

MLC, I have been doing a lot of 180s. I used to be judgmental about H's choices and used to comment on them. I don't do that anymore because DB coach says judgment kills intimacy. I used to wait for H to decide what we do on the weekends. I don't do that anymore and make plans for kids and me without H. Those are only two small examples but there are many more. I am not so dependent on H anymore. I am not suffocating him with my dependency or love. He is living his life and I am living mine. Only thing is he is living it with someone else. I would love for that to change but can't go anywhere with it if H's attention is with OW and not on me. He is putting in his efforts there. I have noticed that he is spending a bit more time with kids but his affections are no longer with me anymore. I think he still cares about what I think, I think he values my opinions but I try not to give opinions anymore and try to detach. DB coach says to give him a lot of encouragement for being a good dad. I have done that and continues to do so. So I am trying to follow everything she says. She warned me that MLC could take a long time, I am warned.

I am also very busy with my own life. I have filled it with work and friends and sport. I am extremely busy and popular now and truly happy with my social life. I have always been happy with my social life. That was never a problem.

He has done many things in the past few things for me to 'react' to. He thinks he can hide stuff from me but I can tell when he is lying to my face. I have kept calm and didn't react. Because that was his complaint about me, that I always wore my heart on my sleeve. So I don't react. I don't tell him I know he is lying. I let it go. That is a huge 180 for me. Because if he chooses to lie to me, he will do so. Me making a big fuss about it will just hurt our relationship even more. Whereas now, he can't complain about me, he has to face the reality of his lies and live with them. I am taking myself out of the picture, he has to live with himself. I will not give him more ammunition to use against me.

MLC, I see your point about H wanting to make the effort or he won't. But I really think that he is still unsure. He hasn't quite made up his mind to D. He is passive-aggressive and action for him takes a lot of effort. He is tired and he doesn't want to make the effort. He doesn't want to make the effort to work on M and he doesn't want to make the effort to end the M. Both of these options take tremendous effort.

So he has opt for the easiest option, to let me take the reins. But I refuse to end the M on principle.

[PositivelyMommy]

My choice in this matter is for the OW to screw up. I can't control what H does. I cannot control what OW does. I can only control myself.

So I am going to control myself, to control my temper, to enjoy and make the most of my life, to be a great Mom and daughter. And I am going to let OW do herself in.

I am going to the best that I can be and let H see me better than ever before.

All affairs end eventually. My H is an excitment seeking person. I already saw the signs of fighting between him and OW recently, he came home crying one morning. A few more of those and my H will be wondering what he has gotten himself into. Me, I am going to show him the confident, busy, beautiful mother to his kids. HE can decide whether to decide to take a second look at me or not.

I really don't think I have to do very much other than the stuff I am doing for myself. I am done with causing drama. I know he is seeing her so why make a fuss about it?? It's a given!

[Can it work]

PM, just thought I'd pop in to say hi and that I think you're doing great. Regardless of whether you've been at this one week or one year, only you will know when it's time to move on. You said your DB coach told you that MLC takes time. If you can happily go on as you have been as a great Mom and happy, attractive woman, there's no reason to give it all up just yet. Maybe your H will choose his career over his family if you move away. Nothing in life is certain though.

Keep fighting the fight and keep smiling.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Thanks Kev, thanks for the hugs too by the way, they cheered me up. I have had a cold this week and had to work late so have been coughing up a lung. Went to see a doc on Friday and she asked if I had the whooping cough shot. I said, yeah, probably when I was a kid. She said I probably could do with a booster. Never heard that before so when I get better, I will have to get a shot. Anyway, finally on the mend now, can get back to my exercises next week which means my endorphin levels will go up again and I will be happier, can't wait.

Not much happening on the H front.

I am getting a lot more work so I am happy about that . Making more friends than ever and meeting more people, ladies all of them. My life is very good. I have good support. New opportunities have opened up to me now that were not available a year ago. I have benefited from this experience. No one knows where this will lead but I feel that I am a better person than before. I hope I am, anyway.

[25yearsmlc]

Well Pos Mom,

that does sound as if you are in a decent place internally. What would be the advantages (leaving H aside for a minute) of moving? I mean, if you are getting work there, is it enough?

The other thing is that my h DID choose his career over us. He left us for a "great job" in the tundra and honestly felt that either he "deserved" to live wherever he wanted to, and or that we'd all "get it" when we saw what he could earn up there. But we did not leave, based on a number of reasons including deceit and the openly choosing a career over all of us was untenable for me and our children.

Off he went. Only it wasn't so great without us. And the R's with the kids suffered, never mind me. He got really lonely. He missed us. HE started visiting us a lot. He called daily at least once, if not more. (I visited him eventually, by my choice). He was depressed, frankly and he realized it himself while talking on the phone with me, saying he had gained a little weight and didn't go outside much (and the whole thing up there is the wild frontier, blah blah blah) and then said, "I guess I'm depressed"....

A year passed with me up there as well, and then we left. It was not worth it, in the end. Now, I have to tell you, he does NOT recall ever saying "I'd take the chance on losing my family to go for this job"....but I know the time and place those words came out of his mouth. I believe him when he says he does not recall that. But isn't that weird?

He stumbles with his priorities at times. But there has been great progress. In general, he is a better person now than before. No more victimhood, "I work so hard" etc. B/C as I told him, "if your energy in life goes to your work, that is where your rewards will be....not here at home or with your children....they 'get it' more than you know"....And so, I have seen him apply for jobs here, and now, in places that are close to home but not as "prestigious" as the other places. Truth be told, I'd move for him someday...but it would have to be ONLY after I felt that he'd do the same for us. There was a time that we were "real partners" and made ALL the decisions together and I see that time returning. But for now he has to prove that to me, frankly. Otherwise I am not uprooting the kids again, for his selfishness, let alone when it is irrational.

Oh, the "gold rush" up there? Cost us a fortune b/c they breached the idiotic contract he signed which I had advised against when he asked for my opinion. He ignored it. He doesn't really recall that either. He's embarrassed and there's no need for me to state the obvious....but he DOES have some serious repair work with the kids to do. Especially d20, whom he left while she was in high school. Missed her last 2 years here. Had we done it his way, she'd have been in 4 high schools in 4 years....(and this is after many moves in the military). That's insane, and so selfish, and I knew it, and could not stomach doing that to her when it all made so little sense.

Here's my real point. If my h had not changed, (and maybe his changes are not permanent and that is why I have not yet posted in "divorce busted!" yet, b/c I still want enough time to pass with the "new h" to make sure) I would not follow him or want to be married to him. Who would?

Being that selfish, to the point of deceit, was something that was never present in our marriage before, that I know of anyhow. And it was not something I could have anymore in my life. If H's new found values--which are the ones he had when we first married--are not real, or IF he goes back to being the self absorbed egomaniac "victim" again that his MLC was like, I'm done. Nothing punitive. Just the reality that I know I can be happy with or without him and I love him -and prefer him in my life, but NOT under "any" circumstances.

I will not be married to someone who acts that way again. Been there, done that. He's had his "episode" and I saw him through it and it was not a short time. But I cannot endure anything like that again. The lessons I'd be teaching my daughters would be HORRIBLE....That is huge to me.

Life is too short. But I am hopeful, very much so. Based on things he says and does now that are unprecedented. We're taking a trip next month to see our d20 perform and h started to whine about the missed work...so I had a calm but HEAVY talk with him...I pointed out a few things to him about the symbolism of him leaving a family trip early, again, especially with THIS d....and how short sighted he was being....and what message he was sending after all the poop he put us/her through ----and he put in for leave well in advance and that has never been done BEFORE, and he's taking the whole 3 weeks and we are not discussing "f-n" lost wages blah blah blah....b/c in the real world big picture, this trip is so important to the healing that needs to be done and a few days work will NEVER be missed in the grand scheme of things...and you know? He got it!...(Clap clap clap!!) But I was so worried, I started to think "Oh no, is he going down the idiot tunnel again? NO can do."
So, thank GOD he woke up or someone talked to him like maybe God, or his best friend who IS often the voice of God in h's life. Something got thru to him.
And now my hope is that my children will learn about commitment and forgiveness and loving someone through a terrible time and letting go of it and going forward in life...that is the legacy I hope we leave them. Maybe we'll renew our vows if things go well b/c I do like the ritual of leaving the past behind.

So, if your h continues to choose his career over you and even if he leaves OW, but still makes it clear that you and the kids will never make it an higher on the priority list....how do you see yourself feeling down the road about that? I have to say the kids learn a lot of negative things from these choices. Be mindful of what you are teaching them.

Don't get me wrong. I'm throwing things at you for purposes of thought and discussion. I'm not telling you what to do. But I think part of being "supportive"
here is checking ourselves and our fears and motives and making sure we are making choices based on love, not fear. I think you are certainly close to being there. I only wish I could know how you'll feel if you never get higher on his list than #3, with MAYBE the kids hitting #2....and that's possibly the best case scenario...

When my bil left my older sister, she was heartbroken. 3 kids, 22 years of M and she was always the giver and he was always the moody one, the 'taker'. etc. I found it ironic that he would be the one to leave. But in the back of my mind, despite her deep wound, I thought to myself, "someday she'll be glad he did this" and you know, she is. Doesn't mean that the pain on the kids did NOT suck big time. She'll never feel okay about what the divorce did to the kids. But her new h "gets" her. The M is absolutely the priority in his life. OMG...amazing difference in her life. I had asked what if ex h came into the picture (and he did try, btw, and said he "got it" and "F'd up big time" etc etc but too late, oh well) and she told me, "Now that I know what it's like to be the priority, I'd never go back to what we had..." Her ex did her a favor. OH, he remarried too. Told my sister his new wife is "high maintenance" ---and all I can say is "There is a GOD!"

I hope in a year's time I have put myself on the Div Busted site, (okay, maybe in 6 months...or maybe 4...we'll see) and that you are in the "piecing" phase. It does happen, and I did NOT expect to be where I am today. But just rememeber, life is short. That helps me b/c I am no longer afraid I'll waste it by waiting for someone who either won't ever come back or won't be worth waiting for. That empowers me in a good way. Make sense?

Take care,

(( j ))