The fact that you must come to terms with is--that you cannot reason with her. Logic is out of the question, in the frame of mind she is in. So......you will have to deal with this as the hardest test you have ever taken. You have the tools to use and the manual to study........if you are a Christian, then greater is He (God) that is in you than he (the devil) that is of the world. It will be very hard, but you CAN DO IT. We are here for you, so keep posting and venting and asking questions. It helps.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yeah I came to grips on January 31 to stop trying to reason with her because her mental faculties were becoming more and more unglued. She is like a child right now, fire bad, food good, and she has no concept of anything beyond what she impulsively wants.
I think she tried (and failed) to cope with her father's death, and OM came in and the A started, which basically pushed her into guilt, etc. so she has mentally snapped.
She tells everyone else these wild stories, and then when she comes back and accuses me of some things I tell her she is flat out lying and she sort of acts confused and considers what I'm saying. Then she just makes up more things.
Her attorney has to have figured out by now she is unreliable and is trying to protect her client by delaying at this point hoping I'm just upset and will calm down. I'm getting ready to grease the tracks and start the locomotive. I've got more than enough evidence at this point to raise serious doubts about her.
Of course... I hate doing it. This is someone I loved, who I trusted, who I put everything into and trusted to raise my children if something happened to me. Now I'm staring at a broken stranger who has no moral compass and seems to take glee in trying to vilify me and attempt to destroy me.
Now that we are in the legal arena (which she chose) she is realizing I'm in my element (lots of experience/knowledge) and she is like a fish out of water. The lies/stories/etc. don't matter as much when real evidence is presented in a legal fashion.
And yes... I try to keep my heart in the right place. I pray every night, try to avoid anger, try to avoid a sense of vengeance, and try to just line up my ducks in a row so that I can just do what I have to do in order to protect D1.
Would I be willing to work on my M? I just don't know if it can be salvaged. She is so broken, and the road back is so long, I almost feel like she'd just give up. I'm not hung up on the A... but I'd have to move, she'd have to give up privacy, her new "friends", all sorts of things would have to happen she wouldn't be willing to do. The M could be stronger afterwards, but ultimately it is easier to build trust in a new R than one ravaged by infidelity. I just think she has too much guilt to feel like she can come back, and she doesn't want anyone else to know what she did. She knows I know... and she doesn't know how to process that... not by being honest with me. She is still going to be lying about it.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
The only slim ray of hope in anything has been that she is (sort of) willing to go to counseling to work on "communication" between both of us so we can get through the D easier. Part of me thinks she is realizing she has screwed up and wants a professional to help her worm her way back in, but the other part of me realizes her "defense mechanism" was to attempt to destroy my reputation, threaten me with D1, and an attempt to steal custody from me.
I'm not sure if going into C together will help anything. I'm not going to pay for it if she just folds her arms and sits there.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
It's typically of little use if one of the partners is still involved in an affair.
Puppy
That is what I've gathered. I spoke to a therapist and she said that she can do "divorce mediation counseling" which would be designed to help us transition easier through the process. Of course I'm sure she'd ask if there was any hope for the M, and of course I know how I feel, but how W feels is a big mystery. Of course, hearing that things could be saved from someone else might help her make a decision easier.
All that being said - her problems run a little deeper with the mental imbalances that have become apparent, and I think it could have been kickstarted by some PTSD due to her father dying.
I'm not sure how much the A continues, I know MIL hasn't been babysitting for her any longer, and is making her stick around their house more often now. OM works most days, so their time is very very limited at this point. Saw him this morning, he didn't even look over my way. Right now I'm sure they keep things alive via phone/text message but I'm not sure how long that will last, especially when she makes it clear she can't expect to carry away a lot of $$$ through the D like he was thinking.
I guess I do look 'rich' when he is a guy who lives with his parents and drinks all the time and I have a house, truck, big screen television, paintings, and all sorts of nice things for being younger than him.
But all things being equal... 27 year old with 3 kids. I'm not rich at all. I just don't blow all my $$$ on alcohol and cigarettes and actually invest in my future.
Based on the amount of damage she has done (or at least attempted to do - I had most finances/assets segregated) there are some extraordinary measures which would have to take place before we could ever reconcile.
1. New phone with no privacy 2. No privacy on computer 3. Move away somewhere else 4. No hanging out with opposite sex friends 5. Remorse/Counseling/Mental Health Evaluation
She wouldn't accept any of those I'm sure. And I can't really see myself budging on taking extreme measures to save the M. She already burned up her trust, so I don't think those requests are unreasonable.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Based on the amount of damage she has done (or at least attempted to do - I had most finances/assets segregated) there are some extraordinary measures which would have to take place before we could ever reconcile.
1. New phone with no privacy 2. No privacy on computer 3. Move away somewhere else 4. No hanging out with opposite sex friends 5. Remorse/Counseling/Mental Health Evaluation
She wouldn't accept any of those I'm sure. And I can't really see myself budging on taking extreme measures to save the M. She already burned up her trust, so I don't think those requests are unreasonable.
If you get to that point, we can help you with these.
I'm not sure if going into C together will help anything. I'm not going to pay for it if she just folds her arms and sits there.
It's typically of little use if one of the partners is still involved in an affair.
Puppy
I'd even go so far as to say that in cases like this, it is more hurtful than helpful.
Your wayward has already shown she has mastered twisting situations to better suit her new "reality" (threatening to steal the baby). It would be easy for her to do the same with C.
As an example, our MC told my WAW "If you aren't willing to contribute to this process by answering questions honestly, I can't help you with your M".
My WAW: "See, she said we should get divorced!"
/shakes head.
H: 38 W: 36 S: 8 S: 5 M: 16 Bomb: 8/25/08 OM: 9/21/08 EA (Possible PA) with co-worker since 5/08 (at least...) Sep: 9/21/08 D Filed 9/23/08 My Situation
Well it almost seems like any conversation we have between the two of us without others present gets twisted into whatever she needs it to be.
I'm requesting a psych eval. If that comes back on her, maybe she'll get some help. It was almost natural for me to get audio recorder, video, etc. because I dealt with crazy the last time and it didn't take me too long to get it sorted what I was dealing with.
I think what is working against us is her youth, immaturity, enabling family, and refusal to seek help on her own.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
I think to have three children at age 22 is a lot for her to handle. I realize that the two oldest are yours, but didn't you say that they lived with you? Anyway, I can understand all of your feelings about the outcome of the R and certainly about any more counseling sessions. I think that is fruitless without her cooperation. She probably does need professional evaluation. In all honesty, I can't help but feel that she will go through with the D. However, if you wait around for her to get through this mess she is in and some time to mature and maybe heal, perhaps then she would be ready to approach you to see how you would feel about seeing her again. It has happened before. It would be very hard, probably, for her to do. It takes a lot of guts to do that! If you think you could ever love this girl in the future after she has straighten her life out......please be careful about saying words that you will regret later. Like I said, I feel that I can understand what you are saying b/c I probably would be the same way......but just wanted to warn you about burning all your bridges behind you.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, to her face I've been nothing but nice and supportive. Even after learning about the A I told her I'm not angry, and was sitting here waiting to work on the M.
My two sons live with me. Assuming she straightens her life out, it depends on how I feel at that time. If she ends our M like this, it is hard for me to want to go through it again.
I've made it clear I'm sitting here, not begging or pleading, but openly expressing love and compassion despite what she has done.
So far she hasn't jumped for that, and I'll be fine either way I know... I do deserve better, and my children deserve better. That being said - she has a chance prior to the D being final to make amends.
I think she probably feels the guilt is too much. She can't trust the unconditional love I've put forth, because it seems unnatural to her. I'm not hung up about the A, I feel sorry for what has happened in her life, and I'm sitting here willing to stand by her, get her help, etc.
There aren't many people who would take the abuse I've taken in stride and be willing to open my heart still. But even that has its limits, and eventually I won't be able or willing to put myself out there again.
I have faith that things will turn out as they should. Whatever happens I know it will be for the best. If we aren't meant to be H and W, I'm hopeful that she will get the help she needs.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
