PM Thread #4

[davidswife]

PM,

Checking on you this morning. How are you? Will your h be around like usual this weekend?

BTW, I'm glad you're optimistic about your journey. And please, don't waste time thinking about h's journey -- totally out of your hands.

I hope you're making a great weekend for yourself and your children.

Praying for you.

Stacy

[Can it work]

Hiya PM

I just thought I'd drop in quickly to say hi and to tell you that I think you're doing great. You seem to be getting a lot of good advice at the moment. I don't know that I can offer anything more than you're already getting. You're a great example of someone who can pick themselves up from a bad situation though. Keep smiling.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Hi Hope, Karen, Stacy and Kev,

I am not feeling my best today. Actually kind of depressed. Negative thoughts are creeping in. I guess it's natural to have ups and downs. H came to see kids this weekend, which is great for the kids. But I definitely feel a huge wall between us and no matter how hard I try to act 'as if' and sound cheerful and just be happy, I feel that the wall is so solid, there is no give at all on his part. It's not that he is rude or anything but extremely distant and deliberately so.

I feel dejected, been db'ing for so long and not seeing any small differences in our R. Maybe this is a hopeless case. I called MIL last night and said that I understand a lot about myself now and how I contributed to the breakdown of M but what I don't get is why someone wouldn't even try. Her answer is the same words that I heard H say and that is, It's so much work to try and he doesn't think it's going to work out anyway.

I told her, it's a lot of work now. It's so much work to be pleasant around the kids. Doesn't he think that D and single parenthood would be a lot of work as well? Is he trying to avoid stress, if so it would not be the way to go about it? And the upside of the M is so huge so why not put work into something that is more valuable?

I am completely shattered. I don't think I can talk to her for a long time. She is nice and I know she speaks the truth but I end up being beaten up by the end of the convo. Maybe I did ask for it. But I feel that nothing was achieved.

The thing is if someone doesn't want to try, there is no convincing them. Even if you DB your but* off. Because they are NOT looking for the signs of change. They are looking for the signs of failure in you. They are programmed to look for the faults so all the good points are taken for granted. This is especially the case when there is OW involved and they think this new person is so perfect and shiny and wonderful. So I look like a rusty old coin and she is the epitomy of perfection. I have no chance. I am given no chance.

What do you do when your spouse thinks so negatively about you? I felt rejected all over again. I feel like a failure around him. I feel like rubbish that he has thrown away. Not a nice feeling. I am not angry about it but very very sad. I have GAL, my jobs are taking off, I have close friends, my family is very supportive and my kids and I are healthy. But those things don't end up making me forget my troubled M. I feel grateful for my blessings but this sense of failure and rejection is so overpowering.

Thanks for letting me vent here.

BTW, on Sat night, I went out and told H so, keeping it very mysterious. I asked H to come over Sun morning to look after the kids and get them breakfast cause I will be late home on Sat. He said OK and showed up and got them ready and everything. Maybe he was mad at me. I don't know but he was very cold all day. Then again like every Sunday night, he rushed the kids to sleep so he can get out to meet OW. Very stressful the last couple of hours of the night because he is rushing everyone, can't relax and enjoy.

I don't know maybe he thinks I am continuing with my life and he doesn't like it so he put up walls on Sunday. Don't know. What I do know is that he is not contacting me to see where I went or who I was with or doing anything that seem to me that he is interested or curious about it. Instead he looks even colder and more distant. I don't know if he cares or not. I am acting like I don't care if he cares.

He is complaining a lot about money though. It's expensive to keep a family and another apartment for himself (if he hasn't moved in with her but maybe he has) and his own social life and also OW's various meals and expenses. I am not going to needle him about it but reality of finances is getting him anxious.

I don't want to be so upset on the weekends anymore. I want to live peacefully. I think it's almost time to move back home. Not give up on M but to remove myself from this constant stress of being reminded that I was rejected, that I wasn't good enough, that he has someone else now and doesn't want me. It's getting me down and not healthy. If I remove myself at least I don't have to deal with him every weekend. Don't have to listen to his lies. Don't have to see if he is on time, cancelling, pis*ed off or whatever.

My patience if running thin. I am not so certain that he will come home. I am missing my H and ready to work on my M. But he is not even entertaining the idea. So what do I do?

[karen43]

But I definitely feel a huge wall between us and no matter how hard I try to act 'as if' and sound cheerful and just be happy, I feel that the wall is so solid, there is no give at all on his part. It's not that he is rude or anything but extremely distant and deliberately so.

My H is like that too. Often acting distant or angry. I'm thinking they act this way, basically pushing us away. Has to be hard to stay with OW and not our lovable, faithful selves. So they act distant and angry. And sometimes I've found out that it had nothing to do with me: his job was being stressful or the kids. Nothing to do with us sometimes. I was kind of surprised last night; H and I had a normalish conversation; he wasn't pushing me away like always. Probably was too tired b/c he had the kids the past 5 days...

The thing is if someone doesn't want to try, there is no convincing them. Even if you DB your but* off.

I agree with this, which is why you have to learn to DB for yourself and your kids. You know the OW isn't perfect and in some way is deeply flawed or wouldn't be with a married man.

What do you do when your spouse thinks so negatively about you? I felt rejected all over again. I feel like a failure around him. I feel like rubbish that he has thrown away.

I have that too. He's said so much stuff; but seriously it's about them not us. I've read in many places here a lot of this stuff is projection: our WAS feel badly about themselves and project this onto us. I think that's why sometimes it's smart to NC or go dark so you don't go crazy with this kind of stuff or thinking about it too much.

BTW, on Sat night, I went out and told H so, keeping it very mysterious. I asked H to come over Sun morning to look after the kids and get them breakfast cause I will be late home on Sat. He said OK and showed up and got them ready and everything. Maybe he was mad at me. I don't know but he was very cold all day. Then again like every Sunday night, he rushed the kids to sleep so he can get out to meet OW. Very stressful the last couple of hours of the night because he is rushing everyone, can't relax and enjoy.

Good job on the GALing and keeping busy, but you need to not focus on him or his reactions to your GALing. You are getting a great life, and don't think about his reactions to that.

He is complaining a lot about money though. It's expensive to keep a family and another apartment for himself (if he hasn't moved in with her but maybe he has) and his own social life and also OW's various meals and expenses. I am not going to needle him about it but reality of finances is getting him anxious.

I think you've got a good attitude about this, and I think that's a good thing. Consequences are good.

I don't want to be so upset on the weekends anymore. I want to live peacefully. I think it's almost time to move back home.

I know you've been thinking about that. I do think you should make good choices for you. I don't think you should do it if it's to runaway or it's all about him which is how you are sounding today. I know it's hard if not impossible, but you have to decide if moving is right for you and your family, and not just to escape your sitch.

My patience if running thin. I am not so certain that he will come home. I am missing my H and ready to work on my M. But he is not even entertaining the idea. So what do I do?

I think you need to work on your patience. Keep GALing and keeping busy and don't worry about his reactions, distance or whatever. I have always felt positive about your situation. I think at some point your H will realize what a treasure you are and want to work on your M. And if he doesn't ever, then you will find someone that will truly appreciate you. (((((PM)))))) Karen

[Can it work]

PM,

Your last post really struck a chord with me. I know I've been DBing for a lot less time than you and have a long way to go but the way you described your sitch sounds exactly how I feel a lot of the time. I found out last night that my biggest cheerleader for reconcilliation (my W's grandmother) has been saying to other people that she feels sorry for me because I'm still hoping my W will come back but in her opinion that's very unlikely. That brings my support for saving my M at home to a big fat zero. Plenty people humour me I'm sure but nobody seems to believe I can actually do anything about it. It's soul destroying and it's really starting to have an effect on the way I look at my sitch. I know its early days but right now it feels completely hopeless.

Back to you though, you've been doing so well recently but I understand that the constant strain of DBing is bound to take its toll eventually. Yes everyone has their bad days. I think that the key is to try and make these few and far between.

I can see how moving your family away can seem so attractive right now. Believe me, if I thought there was any way I could move away but keep regular visitation with Wee Man I'd probably be doing it tomorrow. I know in myself that it would be running away though. Yes it would help me learn to get on with my life without my W but isn't that something I should face head-on and deal with for the best possible future for Wee Man whether we're together or not. I still love my W for who she was. I wouldn't take her back now if she remained who she is. It just wouldn't work. I'm in love with a memory, not a person. The love I have for Wee Man is real though and I could never leave because of him. I know your H doesn't seem to care who he's hurting here but how would it affect him if you moved his kids away? If my W did that to me I don't know how I would cope. It would destroy me.

Sorry if that sounded harsh because I'm 100% on your side but they are his kids too. Have you even mentioned the move as a possibility to him? Like Karen said, make sure it's for the right reasons and not just to run away.

I really hope today finds some more joy for you than you had yesterday. Take care.

Kev

[davidswife]

((((PM)))),

Well, I know how you feel, we've all been there.

I know you realize that this low feeling will pass soon enough. I'm glad to hear that you're still thinking about all the options for you and your children. I agree to a point w/what Karen and Kev said, but there is a big difference between "running away" and simply "moving on" -- not to be read as "giving up" if you're not there yet. You've always shown good judgement when making these decisions, and I have no reason to see why this would be different.

I do agree w/Karen about your GAL'ing - do it for you - not to get any sort of reaction from your H.

Have you ever discussed the possibility of a move w/your H? From the way you describe his interactions w/the kids, I don't know how much emphasis he puts on spending time with them.

Extra thoughts and prayers for you today. This too shall pass...

Stacy

[hope3343]

PM, first HUGS to you. I feel your frustration and pain.

DB is good but the problem is that after awhile as you and others have described it wears us out and our love begins to die along with all the DBing we have been doing.

That is why I am a believer in Plan A/Plan B from Surviving an Affair, which is a bit more agressive than Dbing.

Plan A is just like DBing but the difference is that you only do it for a certain amount of time (probably up to 6 months) and then you go "dark". I have posted a few things on YOYO sitch and I am going to put a Plan B letter up.

It is like the Last resort technique but with Plan B letter if WS wants to find his way home.

I will be praying for you. We are all in this together.

[PositivelyMommy]

Thanks to (((Hope, Davidswife, CIW and Karen))). I really needed those words from you all. It was a really tough week last week. I don't know why, nothing drastic happened. It just was that way.

I am in a MUCH MUCH better place mentally now. Thank you to you all for pulling me out of my misery when I needed it the most. I would still be there if it weren't for your support, caring hearts and friendship.

Davidswife is right, this too shall pass. It's key to remember that. Everything passes.

A good friend of mine called me this week and Her friend's H just passed away. My friend suspects that it was suicide but cannot confirm yet.

It got me thinking. My friend's friend would give up almost anything to have a fight with her H. I am very very blessed and fortunate to be healthy, able and my H is here to fight with me. Death is the most final. Everything else is negotiable. I am telling myself to take a look at the bigger picture and not get too bogged down on the little details and forget my promise to myself. That is to fight for my M, have patience, compassion and love the man I married. It doesn't mean be a doormat but just means that it's not over til it's over. And even then it's not over till one of us is dead.

It's still early days. I am telling myself I should not give up just yet when the heat of the A is still burning. Wait a while, till the flames dies, then we'll see where we are.

Just a thought. Hoping for the best.

BTW, had to call H early this week about some admin stuff. He sounded cheerful and soft, much like the old H. Not the 'this is a business call' voice on the phone. It was nice. But not banking on anything. Just nice.

[hope3343]

Hi PM, glad you are feeling a bit better. I went into a slump starting at Valentine's Day and it took me weeks to overcome that depression.

At least your H has not served you D papers. That is something positive. Mine seems to have agenda set. Move out 10/1, waited till after the holidays, served me in January, and now trying to proceed with D. I worry he will marry OW. But hopefully this is where the stumbling blocks will happen.

They all go into that adult disneyland state of OW who adores them, spending money, going out,-- it is like when your kid goes off to college the first semester and they go nuts, BUT the reality starts to catch up with them.
It is not glamourous or fun taking out someone else's garbage or cutting someone's lawn, not seeing your kids, losing everything you built for years over some bimbo. Its a shame.

[PositivelyMommy]

Good news!

I think there is trouble in paradise :/. H shows up with red eyes as if from crying. A spat? It is the weekend of one-year anniversary of second bomb when I found out about OW. Maybe OW is demanding public recognition or something else. Who knows? Not wasting any more brain cells on what she is up to. Just glad that he is not all happy and in denial. This afternoon he takes a nap. I am thinking they were fighting and stuff and he has lost sleep. Gooood. This is the man who said to me that OW wanted nothing from him. Yeah right! No one wants NOTHING. Everyone wants something whether it's attention, money, love, companionship or whatever. Hello! Denial! I think he is finally coming to the reckoning of what has happened and who he has gotten himself with. Our C tried to tell him that all women are emotional creatures. H wouldn't believe him. Ummm. Now he is learning. He just traded one set of problems for a bigger set of problems. Should have just worked on our M, then wouldn't have another woman and extra finances to deal with. Not to mention worrying about the kids and their wellbeing. Ha! I can vent here but would never rub his face into that, it's not DB.

Hopefully this will push him to then next Stage of MLC - Depression. If not, I will be seeing more of Replay behaviors. No guarantees he will come back, of course. But if there is trouble in paradise at least there is a small chance that he will come out of A with OW. Which is a cause to celebrate.

Yesterday, we were having so much fun with kids, I could tell that H was reluctant to go. Boy did I DB my as* off, all smiles and fun and light-heartedness. Riding on D's scooter, having a blast. H was all quiet and solemn, I didn't pay any attention to him at all. Gradually he came around and got less tense. Was I blind or did I not notice that H has turned into a grumpy old man these last few years? Anyway, H was reluctant to go, I gave a quick farewell and off I went. Let him wonder what fun he is missing.