I wonder if it happens again a few years later because people allow themselves to become complacent, resume bad realtionship habits and get stuck right back here. All the time wondering, "What happened?"
I personally refuse to allow myself to backslide in that direction.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I know this is a marriage saving board. I'm just wondering if a bit less of putting up with stuff, more boundaries and self respect would win in the long run instead. Who knows.
As most people on the boards know, I have one of the nastiest MLCers. In the beginning I would put up with so much crap from my H in hopes of saving my marriage but no matter what he just kept treating me bad. There came a point where I said enough is enough and I took a stand for myself. There was/is only so much I can put up with. I have learned to choose my battles wisely. I learned that in order for someone to respect me I had to respect myself first. I learned to live for me, not for him. I learned which boundaries where necessary for me to set in order for me to live in somewhat peace. He tries constantly to break those boundaries and sometimes he suceeds.
I do agree with you, I do think their are many people that are willing to put up with any behavior as long as they save their marriage. I am not mocking them, that is their personal choice as it is my personal choice to save myself first.
So even though I came to a marriage saving board and did not achieve my original goal, what I take away from these boards is much more valuable.
Thank you all. It's a roller coaster for sure. And you're right, JTB and Trapt, I'm not ready for all of the possible outcomes of an ultimatum. So I just can't take that route now. What's more, in the last three weeks or so, maybe longer, but not much, we have started to see progress. So an ultimatum would be the ultimate backslide I think. I'm really struggling here to be his friend, let him know the bridges home have not been burned and trying to put him in a position to come home AND save face. This is the advice/homework from my DB coach. (I talk to her again on Wednesday this week. Very excited.)
I know the dumb OW from the EZ is still calling him on occassion. But I do believe she calls him for advice and guidance at work. It makes me crazy and I have to let it go.
He was very weird this weekend. Very affectionate and the big kicker here, are you ready: This past weekend, the first weekend for me all moved out, we have had the best talks since all of this started. He told me some things that upset him during the marriage and was very specific. That is the first time he's said anything I could work with.
Let me take you back.......We were fighting once. I called him Father of the Year. I watched him when I said it and I watched him have a physical reaction to it--and not a good one. I knew that was something that I should not have said even before I said it, but I was just so pissed. This weekend he brought that up and how much it hurt him. I explained to him how hard it was to be alone so much on the weekends and I was lonely. And hence the bitching, then he'd stay away more, so more bitching from me and more time away for him, and so on and so on and so on and here we are. Ta-dah. He also said "There was just no affection from you.....at all. Even during sex sometimes, there was no affection. How is that possible if two people love each other?"
Last night he came to dinner at where I'm staying (H and my friends H are very good buddies so it's very comfortable). He was leaving and he gave me a big hug and A KISS ON THE LIPS and said "Are you ok?" I said yes and asked him the same thing. He said "Oddly, yes I am......(big hugs between us) (he kisses me)He says "We're going to figure this out.....we're going to be fine." I should have asked what that meant because he said it earlier in the day too, but I can't push him just yet.
Any insight? Is this a stage? If so, what do I do?
I will agree that the GAL part of all of this has been pretty great for me and my mental state. I haven't had self esteem issues during all of this, but I did get lost in the Mommy stuff and never really recovered until recently. It's a great feeling and yes, no matter what, that will continue for me.
whitelight, I understand....but each person has to get to the point of seeing the light and understand that being a doormat will not bring their spouse home, nor will the spouse have any respect for them when they are door mats.
Each person will figure this out. Some of the spouses return too soon and that's why they are back out there on the street in short order. Others return, but play the field while have the best of both worlds...now they are the ones that I really worry about.
Setting boundaries, having more self respect and learning to do for oneself are some of the key elements to winning the "whole self" back. Posters will learn that no matter what happens, they will be okay. We all have traveled this road and are very scared, hurt and will do almost anything to get the spouse back at first. However, as we continue to travel the road to Oz, we learn that we need to take back control over our lives, the self respect will reappear, etc. and life will be better for us. Whether the spouse comes back or not...that's our decision if we want them back.
We have to be patient w/the posters and allow them to walk the same path we did. There are many lessons for each hiker to learn along the way. We have to be here to help them up when they fall. We can't give them the shortcut because they need to learn, just as we did.
Amy posted back to you on her thread. I do have to agree with her when it comes to moving out of the house. I don't know your entire living sitch., but hey, he has the problem make him do the work.
Plus it has it's advantages legally, God forbid it would come to that.
I am frustrated that so many good people on these boards are just treated so poorly. My heart continually goes out to them and I pray for them all the time. I've just read so many threads on here where the person does everything to save their marriage and the other person just takes advantage of it, uses and lies to them and then abandons them. Over in piecing it's even worse, a few years later it happens again etc. etc. I don't like seeing people disrespected and treated poorly.
I know this is a marriage saving board. I'm just wondering if a bit less of putting up with stuff, more boundaries and self respect would win in the long run instead. Who knows.
Overall, I agree with whitelight. Which is why I would emphasize a person dealing with themselves from day one here, instead of focusing on the one thing they CAN NOT change and that is their spouse. If newcomers could grasp that and deal honestly with themselves and their own personal failures/shortcomings and GAL, it would foster self-respect. In that, natural boundaries would soon be drawn and respect quietly demanded or the offender would no longer be welcome to make contact.
That said, MLC is different monster. If you're going to go through one of those with your spouse you first need to get used to being on the outside of it. You're persona non grada because the one closest to them gets the blame for most of their problems. It is just the nature of the beast. And you can not change their mind, manipulate their position or talk them into seeing "reality". Besides that, who is to say the LBSs version of reality is even true? 9 times out of 10, it is screwed up as well, but you're the one here so you bear the burden to educate yourself and make your choice to stay or go.
If a person who finds themselves here has been here for a long time and they are still allowing themselves to be a victim of emotional abuse they HAVE NOT done the necessary work on themselves. Self-respect and healthy pride do not make a doormat. All that person has done is feign patience and employ strategy. And if that's all you've done, you don't have it in you to make it from MLC-hell to piecing anyway. That is my opinion. In these scenarios we see here, most have become educated enough by these boards and Michelle's tools that there is no excuse for being a victim of a spewing MLCer after a certain amount of time (determined by each person individually). I don't feel for those people as passionately as whitelight does. They have the tools, they are just too lazy to use them or are in denial about their own imperfections and failures within the marriage. MLC is not an excuse that should get the MLCer off on paying the piper however it is also not an excuse for an LBS not to turn the mirror around on themselves, look closely and deal with what they find there.
Amy posted back to you on her thread. I do have to agree with her when it comes to moving out of the house. I don't know your entire living sitch., but hey, he has the problem make him do the work.
Plus it has it's advantages legally, God forbid it would come to that.
I definitely stand by that 2X4.
I think it was a foolish, knee-jerk and blantantly strategic move to leave your home and take your child away from the only home he knows in the selfish and slim hope that you could shock your husband into wanting to be with you again. That ain't the way this works and you had enough posts from others here that you could have figured that out. If you want help the first thing you need to learn is that you don't make any big decisions like that without doing NOTHING for 24 hours and running it past the people here first. Even if he were to call you in a week and beg you to come back, you'd just end up here again.
Swallow your pride and go back home. If he wants a divorce, he leaves and he does the work. That's the rule.
Hi AmyC and Trapt, I actually did think about it for a week. I was standing in the house. S and H were at the park. It just made me sad--there looking at our first home, remembering all the good, thinking I seem to be the only one who does. I realized then and there that H was never going to get it if someone didn't kick him in the ass and I figured who better than me? I talked to a few friends, all offered their homes to us. I came here because my S loves it here and is very comfortable. This house and the couple who live here have been my haven since this started. When I would have a bad day or fight with H or I learned something I didn't want to know, I came here. And these friends I'm living with have done nothing but encourage me to fight for my family. They calm me down and are the voice of reason when I'm ready to do something that will end with me wearing an orange jumpsuit. I am opened to the idea of going home and really do want to. But for now I just needed the mental break. And I'm getting it. And I told AmyC, since leaving my home, my H has actually started talking to me and I mean really giving me specifics and examples and real insight into his unhappiness. He even told me Therapy has been really good for you. (But he still refuses to go, so I don't push.) I didn't come here with a time frame, but honestly, my heart hopes its not for long. I guess my DB Coach is going to lay into me during our next session on Wednesday, huh?
I have actually slept through the night in this house. I have to believe that is a good thing.
Also, H is just as welcome here as I am, so he can come and see us whenever he wants. And he has been here everydays since I moved.
If it's a crisis it's a long haul. It's just the way it is. Keep learning and keep reading.
I like ya already, you read Amy's posts and your not whining. You seem like a strong person. I'm not trying to be a downer, be cautious and still look out for you right now. They have a tendency to swing from nice to jerks at light speed. Hang in there and keep learning.
