Climbing out of the swamp

[frank_D]

Feeling better this morning than I did yesterday. Looking forward and thinking positive thoughts.

This morning W was in the kitchen when I got up. While I made coffee she started talking to me about her financial situation and spent a good 5 minutes unloading her frustration with the Holistic Treatment center she works at part time and how the owner has been giving her very few referrals and has been difficult to deal with lately. I just listened and validated. Not my problem.

Then she went on to ask me how I was 'feeling' about her being here, saying that we're 'one in a million' saying that most people couldn't live together under these circumstances. I said I was fine with things and not to be concerned.

She said she was worried that I thought she was watching my every move but that wasn't the case.

Then she said that she was so glad to be here because she really missed being with the girls, and that she feel like they really need her in their day to day life. I told her that I appreciate that she's here and all the things she is doing.

She told me that she thinks I spend too much time working and not enough time getting out of the office. Basically GAL.

It was a positive exchange and she wasn't in her 'detached' voice. She was present.

Anyway, thought I throw this out there. As I said, I'm in a better mood today.

[still.struggling]

Good to hear your in a better mood.

[frank_D]

Then she said that she was so glad to be here because she really missed being with the girls, and that she feel like they really need her in their day to day life. I told her that I appreciate that she's here and all the things she is doing.

I had to think about this statement. When she told me this I cringed inside because I was thinking that I wasn't 'good enough' to take care of the girls. I failed and now she is bringing all the 'good parenting' into the house.

My first inclination in the past would be to say "Yeah I guess I sucked at taking care of them". But I didn't. I thought it but didn't say it.

I know I didn't do the greatest job but I was here, I worked to keep us here, and I love them. I did the best I could at the time.

I need to remember that and give myself Kudos for at least doing that much.

[frank_D]

I noticed that STBX carried her purse with her when she took some trash out to the curb. She used to do that to make sure I didn't see her cell phone calls.

So, it bothered me. And since I have nothing to lose by being honest about my feelings I told her what I saw and how I have no interest in looking at her cell phone or cell logs.

She said she had nothing to hide and that she wasn't carrying her purse around to hide her cellphone from me. In fact she thought she didn't really have it but may have and just forgot.

I told her that I just wanted to clear the air over this and left the room.

A few minutes later she came to my office and said she just wanted to be clear that she is no longer going to lie and hide things from me. That OM is still her friend and they sometimes talk on the phone because he is part of her spiritual network of friends.

I said that he was the spiritual friend she ended up in bed with so that's a little hard to believe. And she replied that he was letting her go and there was no sex involved, they only talk sometimes on the phone.

I told her I had trouble believing her since she has had affairs and they all start out with 'friends'. Her response was that I did the same thing. I said that I never violated my wedding vows and had an affair. She said that I lied to her and ran off with 'a bottle'.

I said that it's not the same as running to another person and violate my wedding vows and she said that it doesn't matter, it was still leaving the marriage for something else. In her opinion they are equivalent.

She said that she had to leave and go through that whole 'dating' thing to realize that it was a mistake to 'get involved with someone' when she hadn't gotten rid of her current relationship. She said "that's my pattern though, and it's wrong". So now she's not getting involved with anyone until we get through 'our' financial difficulties and stabilize our family emotionally. And until she is divorced.

She said "You'll just have to see what I'm doing until you start to trust me again".

She seemed serious when she said all this. She seems to think that you can just tell a guy "we'll just be friends" after what she's done and it'll all be ok.

I told her that it's hard to believe her but I will try to trust her. She said she is trying to learn to believe me also.

This is like "Piecing for a Divorce". Crazy.

I'm still ok today.

[25yearsmlc]

Frankd

(sigh) You are sooo overthinking and over analyzing, right after you say you won't. Just be here now. That is enough.

Second, you are still going over crap from the M and what is the point of it all? You will NOT get a "verdict" on this. At least not in this life. There is no point in trying to see the M history the same way, and fyi I now believe that is impossible.

For my M and the reconciling we are doing, I cannot go back over H's transgressions for a host of reasons. But ONE reason is that he won't see things the same way I do so it really is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere. What matters in reconciling, and if NO recon is happening I'd argue this matters in moving forward anyway, is how you will relate to each other from now on.

Going forward, all we know is you two are the parents of some lovely young girls/women. Be there for them as best you can, and seriously, end the contest over who was the worst spouse. It truly does not matter anymore. If cooperation and a common purpose lead to a decent R, then maybe a friendship can exist but without all the analysis and baggage. Let it go. The "worst spouse" contest, and the attempt at seeing your m history the same way, is incredibly counter-productive, futile, and negative. Make sense?
Just try to co-parent for now.
(( J ))

[sandycay]

Then she said that she was so glad to be here because she really missed being with the girls, and that she feel like they really need her in their day to day life. I told her that I appreciate that she's here and all the things she is doing.

I had to think about this statement. When she told me this I cringed inside because I was thinking that I wasn't 'good enough' to take care of the girls. I failed and now she is bringing all the 'good parenting' into the house.
Frank you misunderstood and are making assumptions about your wife here. She said she missed them..Period She said she felt like needed her...period Those are all truths, nothing more.... she's missing her kids and her kids need her..... be happy she's awake enough to see that, that's what moms feel!
My first inclination in the past would be to say "Yeah I guess I sucked at taking care of them". But I didn't. Good job on keeping that thought to yourself.. now what is Frank going to do about that negative thinking? I thought it but didn't say it. She didn't say that all.... you did.... now stop beating yourself up about this and move forward... we all screw up as parents ... get over it... although I like you.... your not perfect ya know

I know I didn't do the greatest job but I was here, I worked to keep us here, and I love them. I did the best I could at the time. Again whose the perfect parent on here, no one.. we all have regrets... hey our kids aren't perfect either and we still love them it's a two way street

I need to remember that and give myself Kudos for at least doing that much.

[brandnewday]

Bloody Hell!!!!!!!

FRANK!!!!!

STOP IT!!!!

[AmyC]

He doesn't want to, BND.

[frank_D]

First, the 'contest' of who was the worse was in my head. I didn't accuse her of being the worst. She just dumped some blame on me with her 'you had an affair with the bottle' and I RESPONDED with the comment about her 'real' affair.

I didn't bring it up first.

And I was setting a BOUNDARY regarding her communicating with Douchebag. It had to be discussed because she is still calling him because they are 'friends'. She said that won't change right now and that it was a bad idea to get involved physically when she hadn't gotten rid of her current relationship.

Seriously, I'm not letting it get me down and the conversation wasn't that bad. About an hour later she went to go do some massages and came into my office to tell me her schedule. We were both pleasant and life goes on.

BND says we need to learn to be friends. Ok, I'll do that. I don't know STBX told me she wanted me to learn to 'trust her' again but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt until she proves me wrong.

if you go back and look at this post
from earlier this morning you can see that STBX opened up to me about her work issues and some other things. I listened and validated like a friend would.

BTW, I'm being very productive in my work today.

[25yearsmlc]

FrankD,

AmyC, Ian, Bworl, FIB, BND and many others have posted with you for a long time. I re-read some of your old posts, even going back over a year. It took me awhile b/c you have a lot of stuff on your threads and a lot of threads.

What struck me so much was how similar the words are: whether TO you, or FROM you, the same advice and same obsessing gets cycled through. Some of it is almost exactly verbatim what has been said before. Almost like cut and paste. I'm stunned really. I went back to January of last year, that's over a YEAR. What patience of these posters.

And how stuck you choose to be . As TNP told you (last August!), your w may have shot an arrow into your heart, but you choose to pick up the arrow and stab yourself again and again. Your childhood sucked and so did hers. FYI so did mine. Ever wonder what your kids are going to say about theirs? How available you were to them? I have read you say that you are going to start being there for your d's...too many times to count. Like I said, I STOPPED reading when I got to your posts that were over a year old. Just couldn't believe it.
You might want to do that yourself b/c it is eye opening.

As Amyc told you a YEAR ago, what can anyone say to get you Unstuck? You have to do it. Only you can, and no one else. Guess what? That's how it is and has been for a really long time. All of us had to get out of our 'comfort' zones to say the least. All of us had to be brave and take risks. And all of us had to stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting the result to be different.


I don't know what the word is for this kind of prolonged staying miserable while saying you don't want to be. But it's really unhealthy. I feel like I'm enabling it at times. Not sure how to help you. But more and more, when I look at those old posts and see the same sh== diff day, for soooo long, I get the feeling that this really is all about what YOU are willing to do and whether somehow wallowing here feeds something in you. I'm not a shrink. But Nothing anyone here says will make a difference. You've heard it all before. Literally. You've said it all before. Literally. But here you are, still. I don't want to be part of the problem. But I feel useless posting here and fear being an enabler. But if you really think you aren't stuck, I urge you read your old posts. Read what TNP and AmyC and others wrote to you months and months ago, and over a year ago. As I said, I stopped in January of '08 so who knows how far back it goes. But I think it'll shock you. Maybe that's the only thing that will.

( sigh )

( j )