I went through some feelings of anger myself. It was always a relief to hit the heavy bag or go to a batting cage and try to hit the covers off some baseballs, which all coincidently were named Nui (my X's name). Just dont go golfing when you are mad - slicing and hooking will only make you more mad!
Came across this passage while reading a Stephen King book the boys got me for Christmas. I suppose it doesn't fit perfectly with the current state of your situation Frank, but it rang so true to me.
A Dad and his daughter. Talking to each other, about a year after the Mom divorced the Dad.
Life does not have to end.
Quote:
“Daddy, was marrying Mom a mistake you made? That she made? Or was it just an accident?”
“It wasn’t an accident and it wasn’t a mistake. Twenty-four good years, two fine daughters, and we’re still talking. It wasn’t a mistake Illy.”
“You wouldn’t change it?”
People kept asking me that question. “No.”
“If you could go back…would you?”
I paused, but not long. Sometimes there’s no time to decide what’s the best answer. Sometimes you can only give the true answer. “No, honey.”
“Okay. But I miss you, Dad.”
“I miss you, too.”
“Sometimes I miss the old times, too. When things were less complicated.” She paused. I could have spoken – wanted to – but kept silent. Sometimes silence is best. “Dad, do people ever deserve second chances?”
I thought of my own second chance. How I had survived an accident that should have killed me. And I was doing more than just hanging out, it seemed. I felt a rush of gratitude. “All the time.”
(from Duma Key, by Stephen King)
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I seem to have alot of anger from being betrayed as well. Trying to change that anger into acceptance. I am sick of being angry and hurt and the reality is its not changing the situation. I am the only one hurting and angry.
Which is why I want to be 'angry' without being 'vindictive'. I'm not 'angry' at her as much as I am angry at myself for not protecting ME. Not expressing ME.
This is not about her, or my anger AT her. It's about my anger in general and how I have suppressed it and turned it inward to become hurt and pain.
It's MY anger. MINE.
If W chooses to push my buttons in the yet to be defined 'future' then I will allow myself to be angry. No eggshells, just me.
The past is what it is. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Uh oh...I feel a big 2 x 4 coming....First, has your c ever met your w, or seen the two of you together? Maybe I misunderstood you, but...
Why feed the anger? What does that mean?
How are you HEALING from years of stuff that has nothing to do with w? Like your childhood issues we discussed, and your professional experience (which you saw as negative but I saw differently, fyi) that are still haunting you to this day, and you can't dump it all on your w, so what's the "feeding" part thing? Haven't you been feeding negatives for a long time already, while starving the positives in your life by either not seeing them, taking them for granted or seeing them negatively, among other things?
Although I still see the w being around as an opportunity for you to model some healthy behaviors now with all the anger talk, I worry that you're just getting a new angle on victimhood.
Like now instead of writhing in self loathing, it'll be "justifiable anger" and that cannot be expressed in a healthy way if you never have done it before now. I mean, you need some TOOLS for that before you drop a ton of bricks on her head and expect something positive to come from it. In fact, from the sounds of it, you could be setting yourself and your d's up for a big fall.
Please allow me to play devils advocate okay? Um, I never met your w, But if we can't see things from the other spouses Point of View, we're doomed...so fwiw, let's try seeing it a diff way for two minutes.
Bear with me now....maybe your w thinks the following:
You were both unhappy in the M, and she knew it, even if you didn't. YOU have said there were legit issues & you could have treated her better. These problems occur to some extent in all M's, but you yourself felt that she had some points to make and you wanted to make changes. You said you "didn't handle some things well", but you are vague as to what that means)
But in HER mind, SHE has communicated with you about her unmet needs, hinted and complained for years but you refused to listen or change....So She drops the bomb and THEN you make some changes, and want her back and promise things will be better, so she dumps OM and returns to you....but ooops, YOU DID NOT CHANGE, you fooled her, or lied to get her back, or reverted or "lost it", or whatever, and she does what she does, which is to LEAVE b/c that is what got your attention before....so again, YOU say, "Stop! Let's try again, I will change and we'll be better now"...etc so SHE COMES BACK to "work on things"...: and gives you another chance...BUT you blow it again in some (never disclosed to me) way...so she's DONE.
She leaves and finds OM ( OR finds OM and then leaves, whatever, remember we're thinking like HER for one more minute) and she wants out. She isn't pushing for the moon financially, or legally, and in fact, she takes the "moral/legal high road" and says she wants NOTHING from you financially, no alimony asked, no "half the assets, she says she won't fight for half the house, you keep the house, AND keep physical custody of the girlsf ... **
But instead of being at peace with her simple desire to move on in her life, this somehow hurts you MORE, b/c you interpret it as meaning you are so undesirable she'll pay a FEE to get rid of you in her life....this puzzles her and makes her think, "F must like being a victim...which makes me (her), the victimizer" and that is not an appealing or attractive experience for her. Time passes and you get very sad and bitter, and when you are asked if your w's happiness is a good thing, you are silent and angry at the question your d asked. So your d does think you are becoming bitter. This is not attractive to your w and is affecting your R's with the girls.
Then Your d's call her and write a note to both of you. THey send a red flare about your behavior that does NOT JUST deal with drinking, but also the depression you express to us and them, that goes with it. One or both said that she "wants her mom home to fix things" b/c in their eyes, YOU / and or "the family," are broken...
So your w chooses for WHATEVER REASON...BELIEVE ME - IN HER MIND, IT'S A NOBLE ONE, and none of us know her and none of us is telepathic, but she is coming back into the house (which you have WANTED to have happen, under your terms I guess, but somehow now it's your worst nightmare....)
Okay, back to earth. Now that I've played "her" advocate, let me say that there seem to be some points in there worth considering. Seriously considering. Frank, you said that your d hugged you for a record 4 times the other day, b/c she saw some positive changes in you. Didn't you tell the c any of that? If so, I cannot see why suddenly she is saying that you should show more anger...
Here's my other fear. Thanks to the "new anger" you want to "feed", this won't be the opportunity for the two positives I hoped for; i.e., 1) Ideally, the restoration of the M, and or, 2) the way you are viewed by your daughters, and how you make them feel about themselves, and you, and men in general. You are the role model of men for them.
Instead, there will be one big fat battle after another that your d's will have to watch --- and YET AGAIN, in your d's eyes, it'll be your fault when your wife walks out again, if you don't handle it well.
SO before you embrace the "I"M ANGRY!" mantra too much and pound your chest, take a deep breath and decide how you are going to ACT on this anger...and where it precisely belongs. B/C guess what? Some of it belongs to you and you alone. (Don't pout, it's that way for all of us. We all screw things up and have regrets and want to slap our own faces for making the same mistake twice, or 43 times, etc. )
Some of it belongs to people who are dead, or no longer around, like your parents, whom you felt were very deficient in raising you.
That anger does not belong to your w or d's. Naturally, many of us are faced with this; I'm was still very upset at my father long after I had moved out and married. But that affected how I treated my h at times, and how I had certain buttons people could push without knowing, b/c they were hidden from them. Sometimes I myself couldn't understand why a comment would trigger such a hot reaction on my end. A lot of it was anger at my dad and how he treated us when we were growing up, his drinking, etc. so I worked on forgiving him and getting help for a lot of years, while getting T and going to a workshop. I did that for my life, not his. With parentally inflicted pain, especially if they are no longer around,
You really only have 2 options that are healthy, forgive them BY LETTING GO, or cling to it and blame them endlessly for things that are totally unchangeable. Talk about useless, misplaced anger...and btw, when my dad was on his deathbed and asked for forgiveness, I gave it to him, and I meant every word b/c I had prepared myself for so long. It was not an instant experience for me, UNTIL that moment when he sincerely wanted forgiveness; and for me, it was the single most holy moment in my life. Not unlike giving birth in the sense that I knew a seawave of change had occurred in my soul. A huge weight was lifted off my shoulders, and I think, his too.
You spoke of anger at your wife that you say was not expressed, but I question that statement. I think it was expressed, just not as direct anger. I don't know, but perhaps you get a bit passive aggressive or conflict avoidant (my h is really conflict avoidant and it has NOT helped us at all)
Or maybe you showed your anger by withdrawing, checking out or drinking or whatever you call it, but what were YOU talking about when you said you "didn't handle things well"? You said it. What does that mean?What would your wife say it meant?
As for anger at her for the A, (discuss the A later) and having a messy house and being a sahm, I can only say hey, I'm a slob. But staying at home for some years, was a sacrifice for ME, not just a privilege that I'm grateful for and having to say "thanks to h' for. It was work, important work to be sure, but still, I don't recall my h ever saying "thanks" to ME....it was all about how he was working and earning money, so, I have strong feelings about that. I derailed my own career b/c I thought it was important to have a parent at home and h had a commitment to the military I did not, AND he usually made more money than I did, and even if he didn't, he loves his work. But make no mistake, though I'm happy & grateful that he enabled me to do so, I'm also aware of what I gave up, and it should matter too. Having a messy house was normal to me, with 3 kids at home. I spent my time with them, not cleaning around them. We finally hired a housekeeper when we could afford to, and reduced marital fighting by about 75%. (I don't want to be a maid. Pardon me if that sounds snobby but we lived below the poverty line for the first 6 years of our M and not much above that until 1995 at which time h finally finished all his training and we magically became a wealthy couple. I felt it was time to make life easier...it was a Godsend and I kicked myself for not doing it sooner.
So Frank, how is the house now that your w is gone and it's just you and d's? Do you do the housework now? If you have a good housekeeper, CALL ME...
As to the Car and Your Daughter...
(SIDENOTE - Frank, I never saw the actual note your d wrote, so I only know the parts you revealed before. BUT I'm intuitively (stubbornly?? ) feeling that it is still not as big a deal to me/her for the reasons you believe. I think a car is freedom and coolness to an 18 y'o for SURE....and you did promise it, so she's disappointed and that part is normal.
But suppose you take another point of view for a minute -- what if it looks like you are saying "''I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN YOU A CAR...BUT EVIL W LEFT ME, AND SO THERE IS NO MONEY, AND EVEN IF THERE WERE, I CAN'T HANDLE HER LEAVING ME, AND SO....NO CAR..... (even though you are not paying your w anything and to your d, the issues seem unrelated). You seem to be suggesting that your wife leaving is related to the money issues, but then elsewhere you say it's the economy and or, that you "didn't handle it well".
More important, I think, is that the car and your promise to get her one, symbolizes another dream your d had, and another promise /assumption/expectation of an intact family and home. that ALL children have, that got yanked out from under her for reasons beyond her control. That's a tough lesson for a kid. What about that, Frank?
{{{{and did I read somewhere that you also told her there is no money for her college? IF so, we'll talk. There are community colleges here. But the application process and essays are time consuming and REQUIRE parental involvement. I did my kids essays with them, and visited the prospective colleges. For d19, h was gone, so he missed the entire experience and never visited the colleges with them ahead of time and too bad for HIM...what a lovely experience I had and would not trade it for anything--Frankd, have YOU taken her to visit any campuses? Okay, push college aside for now, we'll touch that topic later as I and many others here have gone thru the whole shebang of helping the kids get it done, and it is time consuming but mandatory. But Frank, ask yourself something. You mentioned that you didn't finish college and if I heard right, you blamed your parents for that. (I'm not agreeing that it was their fault as you could have gone later) But if you drop the ball on this and tell her "oops, W left, or whatever, and "Can't go to college", I mean, won't it feel like YOU repeated exactly what your parents did to you, with your own d's? How is that going to feel?..
I'll help you with the college questions if you like as i just finished with two kids and my niece as well (her dad, my bil, died in September and my sister is AWOL emotionally, so my niece asked me to help her and I did and it's pretty fun if you have the right attitude).
Food for thought. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Uh oh...I feel a big 2 x 4 coming....First, has your c ever met your w, or seen the two of you together? Maybe I misunderstood you, but...
Why feed the anger? What does that mean?
How are you HEALING from years of stuff that has nothing to do with w? Like your childhood issues we discussed, and your professional experience (which you saw as negative but I saw differently, fyi) that are still haunting you to this day, and you can't dump it all on your w, so what's the "feeding" part thing? Haven't you been feeding negatives for a long time already, while starving the positives in your life by either not seeing them, taking them for granted or seeing them negatively, among other things?
Yes, C has been there and knows W, she was instrumental in our reconciliation 3 years ago after W's affair and crash, she knows how much I love W. She only want's the best for me.
The concept of my 'anger' is centered around the fact that I give everyone a pass when they do things I don't like, and I internalize it as me being 'wrong' or 'bad'. Instead, it's unexpressed anger. It doesn't mean I need to start running around being angry, but instead when I am being wronged I need to EXPRESS it, instead of internalizing it as if I am 'bad'.
So, I have been hurting for months now. When I should have been angry.
So when I say "I am angry" what I am saying is that instead of HURTING I'm reflecting it outward as anger. And if W talks to me about MY shortcomings I sure as hell will tell her about HER's and how they have affected me. Not in a mean way, but in an honest way.
So when I say "I am angry" what I am saying is that instead of HURTING I'm reflecting it outward as anger. And if W talks to me about MY shortcomings I sure as hell will tell her about HER's and how they have affected me. Not in a mean way, but in an honest way.
Excellent!
Just remember to express but dont defend your feelings.
yes I think I get it fine. You know how literal I get with wording. And I do hope you get the value of my playing "L" and taking the WAS's position sometimes b/c usually it's enlightening even when not "right". Once when I told mc I felt I had to stay at home more, b/c h's job made him increasingly AWOL from kids/home and me.
Later I heard h say to mc, (not knowing my view) that HE felt he "HAD to work MORE" b/c I was staying at home with the kids (h's words were "not working anymore")...so okay, um, chicken or the egg right?
Hindsight shows he probably had a point. We both did. And I can wax on about how superior my motives were, blah blah blah. But what counted wasn't who was exactly accurate, but that we actually viewed the same events from a totally different perspective and there was at least SOME truth/validity to his views and mine. Kind of scary. Not quite the same as a self serving recollection of an A, but the point is still there. Make sense?
Besides, where are we ever going to get our M's (or R"s w/ kids) if we- cannot put ourselves in their shoes? Hard to do sometimes...
And when we are hurt or left behind, well..."it sure don't feel like a time when ah give a sh-- bout what HE's been thru iffen you know wat i mean"...
Oh how I hate memories of the times I spent going around & around the loop in my brain about what h was doing, the extreme injustice of it, the why why why??? not just why me? But why period? Why miss out on the girls lives? Why miss every "Back To School" Night? Never could get it, and never will. You know what? I ACCEPT THAT NOW, or at least I'm getting there. I mean, I "get" that I probably won't ever "get" what he was doing/thinking. He loves the kids and has deep regrets but is averse as hell to talk about those regrets. So, it's all about 'what now?" Besides, the energy used looping around, took away from my d's time, and my "me" time, and moving forward...
I do miss him. He's coming back in 2 weeks and it'll be good to have him around with some consistency to get used to each other again. (Crossing fingers about his mom's PET Scan for cancer return...)
In the Navy the guys who go out for long times in subs, are de-briefed when they return to home port. They're told to "ease back into the family" and not give orders or take charge of anything for WEEKS (depending on how long gone) and try to wait until invited to do so, or at least wait or some time. The guys who followed that advice, and treasured their wive's contributions--holding the fort down while he was gone, child care, managing more or less fine without them, (though missing them!) those M's made it through alright. It's surprising when you consider their lifestyles but a lot of them make it work well. Guess it'd be nice if WAS's got the debriefing too.
Well, I've had a long day...so I gotta go check on one other thread and sleep...
night frank and try to have a good one. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You took a fork in the road. The footsteps you see ahead of you are mine.
I disagree with 25 on this. I am happy to see you angry.
When we are hurt, physically we respond with pain. It is always the first response b/c it is instinctive. The pain tells us to do something. Take your hand off the hot stove or go see our doctor friend FIB.
When we are hurt, emotionally we respond with anger. That is always the first response b/c it too is instinctive. We learned it back in the cave man era when giant man-eating flyings squirrels decended upon us. To beat them off, we felt anger. The anger tells us to do something.
So anger is trying to point the way. We can listen or not.
At first, you and I ignored it. Pain is not anger turned inward; depression is anger turned inward. Depression fueled by drink. It not only supressed our anger, but it supressed our view of the reality about us. Like taking a pain pill rather than seeing the doctor. And when you are depressed, the blame is all internal.
That is where you have been, as I was (and am to a degree).
In my case, the next step was hate. I realize now it was not hate at all, just added anger. But the added anger allowed me to focus not only on me, but on her and the environment around me. That was a major step. I remember when folks here, including you told me to lose the anger. But I am glad I did not. The added anger was a signal to also look at her, look for the first time. My perfect, loving W was not the perfect person after all. And use that info to help me fix what I need to fix in me.
Like the horror story where Dorian Gray's portrait changes for the worst yet he appears the same, I was forced to look at my W's portrait and it was hard to look at. It still is; I still turn away. Of all the things left to do, the hardest for me is to accept, really accept, that my former soulmate did what she did and how a loving person and mother would break up a family. How her portrait showed me that if the clock were turned back that I should have not seeked her out, even as a friend.
But she too is human. This also told me that if we ever did get back together, what I would need to accept and forgive in her and myself to make a R work.
I still do not have my arms around this.
The anger helped me work through this to the point where the anger is almost gone and acceptance is within reach. If you are angry frank, it only means you have emotional work to do. Yes, you "get it" logically as I did, but the anger you feel tells you that you don't get it emotionally yet.
From your C's discussions, I believe that you will turn that corner. The anger is the signal to do something and to look at the whole picture objectively.
As men, we have work to do to work on us. But rather than react to our anger with depression or aggression (we have never spoken but from your words I doubt that is a problem for you), we take skillful charge of the situation.
After my "hate" period when my anger peaked, I finally began to see things in a different light. I learned to set and enforce boundaries. I cannot emphasize how important that is.
I am also now learning that her portrait on the wall is not the whole story either. The more I accept, the better I feel. Acceptance leads to compassion and compassion to forgivensss.
I still have work to do, as you can see.
I warn you, it takes time to process these emotions. To see the reality around you clearly. To see the real portrait behind the people. To see that you are not the total blame and that you can reject being a doormat for others or a co-dependent.
Expect the backslides, especially when W moves back in.
You took a new road frank. Anger is telling you that you have work to do.
told me to lose the anger. But I am glad I did not. The added anger was a signal to also look at her, look for the first time. My perfect, loving W was not the perfect person after all. And use that info to help me fix what I need to fix in me.