LoveNoMatterWhat's New Thread

[FaithfulH]

We only get one shot,one opportunity to make the most of what life has to offer and then we're gone. Ideally, we would make the right decisions the first time. Unfortunately, I was too immature to recognize how sacred life truly is - how it is so important to do the right things and to above else, love.

LNMW,

I agree with Breton....you ARE getting another shot at it. Keep taking advantage of it...but, realize the road back is long and curvy and hilly and scattered with hurdles you must overcome!

I think it was accurate when somebody said that "Trust is easier broken than repaired"....it makes me consider my words and actions more carefully these days.

[lovenomatterwhat]

To trust again, you need to be consistently available with consistently loving actions.

Thank you Breton so much for the reminder. You are so right about watching what she does versus what she says. I am definitely getting another shot at this, but boy is this road tough. I was really down the last two weeks, but it is always nice to come to this board and hear encouraging words (or a 4x4, whichever is needed.)

Trust is easier broken than repaired

That is so true FaithfulH. I need to treat everyday as a new opportunity to demonstrate my love for my family - to really be there for them. My wife has been dropping hints that she wants me to spend more time with my daughter - so one of my action plans to do to make that happen. I already pick up my daughter almost everyday from work, but I think my wife just needs more of a break from our daughter as she can be quite demanding sometimes (my daughter that is). Well, I'm off to bed - but will write later.

Thanks

[FaithfulH]

Well, I'm off to bed - but will write later.

LNMW,

How much later did you mean? Later in the year? LOL....

[lovenomatterwhat]

okay,
I am going to need a lot of support on this one. I am really considering call it quits. My ex and I have been a lot of progress. We talk a lot on the phone, play around, etc. But I feel that what I did is not repairable. That I will never be good enough for her. It seems like I can never get the benefit of the doubt and I am tried of trying to be Mr. Perfect.

So here is what happened today that made me vent like this. We were talking about the economy (something I know a lot about since I am an economist) and somehow we got into the topic of whether or not her best friend could buy a house today given that he has bad credit. Well, I told my ex that he could, but that it would be a high interest right, yada yada yada. And since I work with a lot of economic data all day, I throw in some statistics to prove my point. Well, she took it that I was trying to belittle her friend and told her that I had nothing again him. She then proceeded to tell me that I was lying and that I hate her best friend. We then went back and forth on this. We were going to go out to dinner tonight and were also going to go look for some shoes for her. But she was upset (although she pretended not to be) and told me that she didn't feel like going. She then continued with the I hate her best friend argument. I told her why would I put myself in so much misery by helping her and her friend buy a house together. I told her that I was not happy with the living situation and that I wanted to make things work out but she didn't. I told her that I was upset that I don't get the benefit of the doubt on anything and that nothing I do for her will ever be good enough to prove her otherwise.

I truly understand why she would be offended and I should have just let her win her argument (better to be happy than to be right), but I let my ego get the best of me. I called her up and left a message on her voicemail, basically telling her that I was sorry for what I said and that I don't have anything against her best friend - that I just wish things were different. I told her on her voicemail that I understand why she doesn't believe me because I did a good job of screwing up the last 3 years.

The thing is that this Friday she was going to take me out to a very fancy restaurant because she said that she wanted to show me how much she appreciates all I do for her. And this evening we were going to go shoe shopping so she has something to match her dress.

Tomorrow I have an interview for a senior director position and I was thinking to myself that this is the last thing I need to be worrying about. I love my wife so much, and I know I need to watch her actions and not her words - but she is so use to have friends that are men that maybe I am just another best friend in her life and nothing more. Well, wish me luck on my interview.

Thanks

[FaithfulH]

LNMW,

Good luck on your interview!

I think I'll ignore the rest of your post since you're not giving up. There is no way you are letting all these changes go to waste...or are they real changes? If they are, you wouldn't be weary of loving your W they way she wants to be loved right now with NO expectations. Get back on your horse, buddy!

[25yearsmlc]

Dear LNMW,

Just so I get it, let me see....Your w's actions lately include her calling you when her aunt died, and planning to shop with you and go to dinner with you this Friday night, but you are upset and ready to throw in the towel b/c she is not saying what you need to hear?

I don't know what her other male friends are like, but are any of them the father of her children? B/C I have to say as a woman, no mother is unmoved by the loving interaction of her children with their father. It's a "turn on" for me and surely is at least an emotional one for other women. Try to enjoy that unique role you play in your d's life and your w's. She knows you are not just another guy.

I don't know all your history but assume there was an A, or something that triggered her actions. If so, whatever the "event" is, don't give up. This is likely to be a test and part of it is testing your ability to show that over time, you'll still stick around. If not, she wants to know now.

When you get to piecing, and I hope and think you will, then that won't be a piece of cake either. I can tell you it's still tough. Prove yourself now or it won't be worth it in the long run. Does this make sense? I mean, if you are going to quit now then what's the point of trying to really reconcile b/c that ain't easy either??

It's worth it. But it isn't easy. Good luck and know that if someone had asked me 5 years ago whether I'd put up with what I've put up with, or asked me 2 years ago whether I'd still be m to h, I'd have said NO WAY to both questions...but here we are.

IT happens. Turn it over to God. I read some of Marianne Williamson and she is too new agey for many people. But I found her exercises on forgiveness and letting go of anger, really really helpful. So for me, it worked a lot. And I do those exercises even now and maybe your w will too. Regardless, YOU can turn it over to Him as I learned to do in the shower, and the bath...I'd say it out loud just to hear it and mean it...

It helps. Prayers are good things. I never really had an "active" R with God before; thought if I lived a good life I'd make it into the club. But was not the type to pray for daily "action". I do now. It also helps. I think HE cares more about our lives and we can invite Him into our lives more than we realize. I recall thinking not to bother God with my trivial problems b/c there are starving people, etc. but then I realize He can handle ALL the stuff so maybe he's okay with me "calling" him pretty darn often. Like maybe he WANTS ME TO CALL HIM MORE....

so I am. So far, God has not hung up or screened my calls yet. But sometimes he doesn't say what I want, or it's not clear to me until much much later.... That's on me. Keep on keeping on...

(( j ))

[forward]

LMNW, Actions, not words.

How long were you gone? You will need at least that long to undo the damage...and it's probably still going to be difficult even then because there is so much trust to rebuild.

25mlc is right. You are not "just a friend." You will never be in that category. I guarantee you that she has pangs when she sees you with the little one.

I have had tiny signs of progress from H, but I am afraid to open up to him again because the hurt was unbelievable.

[lodo]

Hey LNMW,

been a bit since I posted to you, but I've been reading.

I feel that what I did is not repairable. That I will never be good enough for her.

Okay, now we know your state of mind and it doesn't sound like one capable of healthy decisions.

...Well, she took it that I was trying to belittle her friend and told her that I had nothing again him. She then proceeded to tell me that I was lying and that I hate her best friend.

Why on earth would someone be so concerned about whether another person hates their friend? Because they feel guilty about that friend, that's why. If you like the friend, then she gets everything she wants to be happy. If you don't go along, then the picture isn't so rosy and she needs to make hard choices. My advice? Whatever you do, just be consistent. If the friend has a bad credit score, tell her you could hate him or love him but that won't change what the banks think about him. Also, you may want to not get sucked into these kinds of conversations, they clearly aren't productive.

I truly understand why she would be offended and I should have just let her win her argument (better to be happy than to be right)

Lame. IMO you just blew it. Why can't you have an opinion? Why are you willing to grovel? Do you think that's attractive? I mean, you're right - better to be happy than be right, but that doesn't mean to be a doormat. Now she knows you won't stand up for what you think is best for her. My advice, stand up for your beliefs, whether that wins your X back or not.

this wasn't intended as a 2x4, but don't lose yourself. Women like men who are confident and self-aware and I don't think you're exhibiting those traits.

Good luck on the interview.

lodo

[lovenomatterwhat]

Thank you all for your advice and comment. I will respond this weekend to your suggestions and advice. I really appreciate all the feedback.

Thanks

[25yearsmlc]

a NOT SO quick comment....

Lodo has a good point about weak men and how UNattractive that is...Amen!
I don't want to dismiss that comment at all, with my stuff below, but to add something to it that parts way with a bit of what Lodo said, with all due respect.

Strength in men...a good thing!...but sometimes what appears strong comes out a way that isn't really strength at all, just b/c it's "decisive"
....

I've noticed a certain negativity with some spouses, for me it's more noticeable with the man or "aggrieved party" or whoever sees themselves as a victim in that moment, anyhow...they blurt out some things that sound really rigid or judgemental. (Often during the news for example). Also it tends to be rigidly negative, not rigid either way. More likely to be really negative. (EX: Not "Wow when someone has a high credit score that's always a good sign about them...." BUT INSTEAD "only a loser would have that bad a fica score" so the sweeping generalizations take on a smug negative put down tone to them. Check yourself and see what type of sweeping generalizations you make that are good, if any. If there are some, are they all about money? Like, "Joe's doing really well, he made $344K last year...." and ignore that he was dishonest with his 2nd wife and missed a court deadline or didn't pay his taxes or wrecked 3 cars, etc. At my class reunion at least 3 men told me that "Joe" was doing really well in his life and they were exclusively focussed on his declared income.... I found it shallow, at our age, to still think like that.

Lately my h has been doing this to the point where the kids noticed it as well so it isn't just me putting a spin on it. Watching the news makes him the worst person to be around. NOT Archie bunker but dang, some of the things that come out of his mouth and I don't think he believes them!! But now I'm not sure... His mom has cancer and he has some floundering feelings professionally, so yeah, I think he's depressed....but regardless, it is also a big turn off.

I think it makes him sound on the road to being bitter. And NOT fun to be with. And I am guessing your wife was reacting to that fear of hers; that you are becoming someone she won't want to be with down the road. If this is off base, then I'm glad. But if there's a thread of something in here, try to heed it..but without putting yourself down too much. Listen, we all have "the leveler" inside us; the desire to be on the same playing field as those around us. When we feel bad about ourselves, it's just easier to tear someone else down, or reduce them to a stereotype from a Reader's Digest format, than a real person with dimensions...

I have to learn to show my sadness with just that, being sad, rather than anger, when I deal with h and pain from his actions. My anger never works that's for sure. But it is weird b/c my hurt and feelings of still not being his priority somehow seem to express themselves (or at least this is how HE hears it) as anger...I know some of it is how he hears it, as I'm careful about my wording but he does not hear what I say...he hears what he fears I actually mean...and that stinks.

So anyhow, that's my two cents. If you want to comment about a FICA score, which I assume she was asking you for, b/c if not, why bring it up at all? But if so, then say the score and attach no judgement to it. Better yet, acknowledge that there are times that could cause such a mediocre or low score to happen to a "good" person and if those events don't exist in her friends' sitch, let HER determine that. E.G., "well that's considered a low score but banks will look at circumstances like...illness...or maybe he went on family medical leave and lost his job b/c a relative was sick (fyi, I'm an attorney and my h is an MD and we did just that last summer for his cancer mom, we moved so he was "unemployed" for 3 months while waiting for his medical license to come into the new state where his mom was). (I'd have to take the bar exam there in that state and that's offered 2 times a year and has a 50% pass rate ummm....fun times) So, we had no income (Fam Med Leave does not give you pay, fyi) and went thru some savings and a credit card and missed at least one or two bills in the move, (meaning the mail caught up to us late, and it was emotional and we just dropped the ball with too much going on). Honestly, I don't feel like looking up our score. Our income is high again and the debts are gone now, but hey, point is, that "sh-- happens" and that's a fact. Even to good people.

If this friend doesn't fit those facts, or no other mitigation exists, that's not for you to determine UNLESS they asked for you professional opinion. Then maybe refer to an "expert" so you don't have to pass on bad news, and see if you can get something positive out of the interaction. Don't pay too much attention to what your' wife's initial comments were anyhow, she may reflect later and realize you were negatively spinning things, true, but that you did provide requested info. (Sorry I'm not sure why you were giving her this anyhow and assuming you were asked. But please let me make it clear, that if she was NOT asking you for your prof opinion, this was probably way out of line and might have looked like weird snooping, negativity, etc. ) FWIW...

SO you could have passed on the information IF AND ONLY IF IT WAS REQUESTED.... and then either attach NO judgement to a number, or offer positive possibilities that show your compassion, and leave it to HER to realize that those types of factors were not applicable in her friends sitch and therefore he probably has a low credit score b/c..???.. he has bad credit and though he could be a great guy in many ways, money management is not one of them, but again, SHE has to determine that. Let her put the spin on it, not you. Make sense?

Hope I'm not digressing too much and that you get my point.

RE: your comments about getting past the "bad" of your past.....I don't know all your history but assume you had an A and or did some "Big bad event/thing" and IF SO, then maybe in her eyes, you are the last person to be casting stones....so if she's coming from that view point, and your sitch, then you have to back off any moral statements big time and ask yourself why you'd be making them. Would you want her to view YOUR past actions with a negative spin? I think you want forgiveness, and so you must demonstrate it....it's an opportunity to MODEL it for her..... I mean, are you getting defensive b/c you feel so guilty and ashamed that in order to level the playing field with others, so you won't keep feeling 'beneath', then you put others down? That happens to ALL of us when we are feeling insecure, but we try to hide it and face it inside, and then move on....you can do that too.
Better yet, we learn to lift ourselves up so we are up to the same world level as our loved ones, not higher but not lower and we don't do it by draggin them down, we do it be affirming our own inner goodness and our own boundaries; responsible for ourselves and no one else and not blaming others, etc.

lately my h has sounded so embittered about people with different political beliefs, that I am getting annoyed. We share some fundamental values but I don't like the dismissive way he is talking. He was NOT always this way. Now that I've posted here, I think I see he is feeling bad about himself...not sure totally why. I wish it was b/c of family neglect and that he wanted to improve there, and maybe it is....but I fear it is still, all about his professional life and where others are compared to him...this is a trait he has had that bothers me a lot. Damn. I thought he had learned more...
Well, sorry to hijack,

good luck,
(( j _))