How to know if it is time to let go for real??

[Kristi R]

I just have to vent right now..here is conversation that happened tonight.

As stated before I am trying to avoid contact, unless by email or text if necessary...I am in store and my D calls saying dad wants to talk to you .. I noticed he had called but phone was on silent and I didn't here.

I called him back and asked him what he needed. I will admit I was not very pleasant but rather just cool and straight forward.

Here is conversation from this point on:

H: Did you get my message?
Me: No...what message?
H: Text?
Me: Sorry I was in store..no signal..what is up?
H: Why did you tell kids about Lisa (his sister)...also when are you picking them up tomorrow?
Me: I didn't know it was a secret about your sister, sorry if you said so.. I wouldn't have said anything. I simply said to them, looks like you guys are going to have another cousin, when I read you text in ref to her being preg.. As far a tomorrow I already told you..I will pick up at 10:00am. Okay?
H: What is wrong with you? What is your problem? (btw..this is also what he texted...I do not get your behavior right now..but I guess I should get used to this...)
Me: I said nothing is wrong with me. I am fine.
H: Whatever..why are you acting like this.
Me: (Sorry..couldn't hold back here)...I said...Look you made your choice you did what you felt was right for you...now I need to do what is right for me, and unfortunately that means that right now, I can not talk to you all the time. We just can not be great friends right now. We can communicate like I said before via texting and email unless we have to talk and we certainly will co-parent the best we can, but as far as being buddy buddy that just isn't going to happen.
H:(Something to this effect..)...You are crazy and it would be in your best interest to remain friends, but oh well this is just how you are..you are all over the place. You will see one day how irrational you are being. Everyone I talked to said it would be best if you and I would remain friends, but you obviously don't know how to do that so you are going to act like a total Bitch..
Me: I said I do not know who you talked to but I at this point I can not imagine being your best friend. Maybe in the future you and I can be friends but right now I need to do what is best for Me. I hope you understand that. I understand that you are doing what is best for you and I am not bitter or angry.
H: Yes you are..you are very angry and bitter..that is what this is all about...
Me: Think what you need to. I am sorry you feel that way. I hope you see it differently someday. I didn't have a choice in this I am doing what I need to now to move on. I will still communicate with you but it may not be the way YOU want it to be.
H: fine, whatever..(laughing at me)...your crazy..then said..I have nothing left to say then..
M: Goodbye.

So as you can see that didn't go well. I probably shouldn't have even gone into as much detail with him as I did or explaining myself but he was really pissing me off. He was laughing at me and calling me crazy. I tried really hard to stay calm and not say anything negative and just validate his reasoning for his choice and letting him know that I was okay with it, but I don't think he heard that at all.

Is this how its going to be detaching, or will there come a time when he realizes that I am not being irrational???

[Silver Fox]

Hi Kristi,

Yes it did go very well - for YOU. He is the one who threw the fit - like a petulant 2 year old.

Yes, he will do this for awhile. He is thrown off by your calm demeanor, so the only thing he can think to do is call you crazy!

Stay calm and assertive - it will take time but he will wear out eventually.

[Sophie]

OMG Kristi...I wish I could have said all that when H and I had first had conversations like that!!!

It took me a year to be able to tell my H what you said.

You did AWESOME...

I had very similar conversations..especially when I first started detaching. If I were to type my conversations here for you to compare, they would almost be the same.

The only thing you could have done is end the conversation, but you just kept repeating yourself, and didn't get drawn into his drama. So, I think it's good that you H got so frustrated that he just hung up.

Your H absolutely had NO control over you or your emotions...and he REALLY tried hard.

You are a hero!!!

Once the dust settles within you...you'll feel stronger than you've felt so far.

You reached a mile stone!

[Sophie]

Hi Kristi,

It's me again...I'm still thinking about your conversation.

I can hear, and I know you felt, frustration and the anger at your H was boiling below the surface...but, the words you said were matter of fact...for now.

It confuses me, in both of our situations, when, how, where and why, we 'let go'...and let the friend 'chip' fall as it may.

I relived episodes with my H via your conversation...like putting on an old shirt.

Now, 30 minutes later....I feel distant and see that with time and detaching...the friend thing cannot be defined nor is it something that needs to be 'agree' upon.

I see how you felt you blew it, but I also see the boundaries you have set.

It made me question why in the heck would I ever think of being in the same house with my H tomorrow???? I guess I have detached enough to just be friendly...that doesn't obligate me to be a friend or see H as a friend. Snodderly tells me to just view H as I would the cute paper boy...nothing more, nothing less.

I have had/learned to say 'I have to go right now' when H starts to pick at me.

And then, I turn off the ringers on the phones.

Geez...you really got me thinking, Kristi...we are definately learning together.

I see you are in PA...not too far from VA!

[Kristi R]

Sophie,

Hi there,

I have been playing the coversation over and over in my mind all night. Honestly I think at first I probably sounded a bit angry and I think I was, only because I really didn't want to talk at all. I almost felt like he was intruding on my "detaching". I know that sounds weird, but I have tried so hard to let go and when I finally get in a grove I don't want to mess with it and then he calls and texts..and I think.. "why can't you just leave me alone..I am not ready to talk and be your friend."

I don't trust myself enough yet to stay calm, like I did, and believe me it was hard and I think there were a few moments were I was really stressing that HE made HIS choice and now I was making MINE.

I think that is where I am stuck. I don't know if it was so much validating his feelings and his desire to leave the M, or me pinpointing that he left the M and I didn't. That is how I felt anyway. So why it sounded good, I wonder myself what I was really trying to do. I want to validate and be calm and try not to let my emotions get the best of me.

The best thing that has helped me has been talking to you guys on this site and hearing stories similar and getting advise. When someone can tell me ahead of time what to expect then I don't react so much because I remember that that was what I was told would happen. So this site has done wonders for me. In the past I would probably have gone nuts trying to defend and explain our R and why I was acting the way I was and how I loved him etc but he left..but I know that doesn't help. It has always made it worse. What I have a hard time with now is seeing how this behaviour can make our M better.

Part of me is so angry that he thinks he can have it all his way. It really would make this so much easier for him if I just was his friend then he wouldn't feel so bad about what he has done and is doing. He says he loves me and always will. But he just can not work on the M. He says he always wants a R with me but just not as a married couple. I have given him everything. My life, my love, my heart, soul, and more time than I probalby should have and it is time for me. It is definately time for me to take back some of that and do what is right for me. Whatever that is.

Will you be with you H tomorrow Sophie? I will not. It will be the first time in 12 years so I am dreading it.

Hugs to you. And I think I am about 5hrs from Va!!! Not too far at all.

[Kristi R]

Just journaling...


I really thought I would be able to make it on this first Thanksgiving with H. I didn't think it would be so bad, but I am a wreck right now.

I picked up kids from his moms this morning, said hello and had to leave immediately because I could feel the tears welling up. I couldn't even look at him. Just knowing we wouldn't be together today was so difficult. I didn't know what to say..so I didn't say anything but have a nice day.

I tried really hard to have a good day but in all honesty it was useless. Every free minute I would start to cry. I would just look around and I could feel teh difference with him not being there. He always helped in kitchen and carved turkey..not this year. He wasn't anywhere in sight. I had to leave my mom's early just because I needed to be alone. I came home. So now I am alone and crying and it SUCKS.

I want to call him Sooo Bad. I want to tell him how much I hate him right now and what he is doing is all wrong and that is shouldn't be like this. IT shouldn't be like this. I feel partly foolish for sitting here crying when he probably isn't even thinking of me, and the other half of me is dying to know what he is thinking and if he is missing me right now too.

These holidays are going to be rougher than I thought.....

[VeronicaV]

Kristi,

They are rougher, much rougher for me, too. I am crying my eyes out and also want to call my H. That would be bad and I know it. So lets keep each other from calling.

If you are here and I am here, then we are not crying alone. I am a mess right now, too. A wise DBer here once told me sometine you just have to cry, just let er rip, no holding back, snot running down your neck. And he was right. So if we have to cry, lets have a good cry together.

I am here for you.

Beth

[Kristi R]

Beth,

Wish I would have read your post first..but I caved..I cryed and then I just cave in. I don't know why. But I called my H.

I started by just asking if there was anything that I could have done differently in the past few months that would have changed his mind. That was all I wanted to know. He said yes...all the constant phone calls and argueing...so at this point I am thinking..Yeah I knew that...and I wanted to say you mean like this one...but that didn't stop me. I don't even think I remember what he said next all I know is it got ugly. And I SWORE I wasn't going to go there......

I should have just stayed on this message board and read the posts over and over. But I was alone and sad.. my kids are gone. I just wanted to talk H..hear his voice and really just see if he was in as much pain as I was.

Now I regret the whole thing. I feel like [censored]. I feel more like a failure, because I go for 2 days detaching and feeling proud of myself and then completely crumble. Its no wonder my h thinks I am crazy. This behavior to him must look irrational. UP DOWN UP DOWN...its like being in church.....

What is worse is this is when I tend to go into fix it mode...I want to soothe what I just messed up and try and make it better by making more calls and somehow explaining away the last one and making it all okay.

He did send me a text saying I should know that these conversations are counterproductive and I shouldn't try to push my feelings on someone and he hopes that we can talk reasonably in the next few weeks...I hate when he is the rational one!!!!!!!!

Of course I know they are counterproductive...I just don't know why I can't shut the hell up. I guess it is the fear and the sadness of being so alone that gets me wrapped up in the moment and then when it is all over and I realize what happened the regret hits and then I feel worse.
And I swear to myself everytime I pick up the phone I am only going to ask 1 question..not get into the R ...and then hang up...but it never happens.

[VeronicaV]

Kristi,

You are going to be okay and you are going to make it through this. As for tonight, what's done is done. Learn from it, let it go and move on.

I KNOW the urges you have to fix this with more calls. It will not work. The reason I say I know is that I was you six months ago. I pushed and pushed and pushed (this was before H left). It was always like this:

Me: "Can I ask you something?"
H: Sure. (In the beginning, his guard was down because he did not know what was coming)
Me: "Do you wnat to be with me?"
H: "I don't know." (This would devastate me.)
Me: crying, "What??? How can you say that."
H: getting angry, "Because you asked me."

Do you have any idea how long it took me to learn to stop doing that? Well, let's just say I did it right up to the day he snuck home in the middle of the day to pack his things and leave.

I have something called thought-based OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder). It is a lot better now that I have had treatment, but some tendencies are still there. I recognize some of the behaviors and thoughts in what you say you think and do. I am not trying to freak you out. Just trying to explain that there might be a reason you cannot stop yourself calling him. Maybe it's worth mentioning if you have an IC?

Try not to beat yourself up tonight. Today is clearly a very bad day for a lot of us. You will make this better. your H even told you how to do it.

Beth

[Kristi R]

Beth,,

Thanks....okay so I am hopping from thread to thread so I don't know where you will get this...

I never thought of the OCD, but it makes sense. I actually told him at one point that it was like a child who needed attention, and even though they may only get negative reinforecement they are still getting the attention they need so they do it even though they realize it is completely wrong. I feel like it is my only way of connecting to him at this point and the fear of losing him completely scares me to death even though I know these calls don't help the R, and in fact make it worse, we stay connected over the phone. But if we don't talk or communicate then there is no connection at all so I can not see how we can grow in our R that way.

When I hear him say that the divorce is going to happen and that it is over I get so upset. At this point I actually said to him explain to me how you who cheated and lied to me can say you don't give a damn anymore but me on the other hand who didn't even come close to doing that kind of damage can still love you so much...tell me how that makes sense??? To which he responded that part of his reasoning is what he did to me. Then I have to go into my speal isnt' that for me to determine if I can live with that? I said he needed to find a way to work on his guilt and if there was anything I could do to help him I would.
He doesn't believe, actually I feel he chooses not to believe, that I have moved past what he did. I don't think he can get over what he did. But I did and that hurts because he is letting that be the basis for his decision for ending our marriage.