Quote: Most people are much happier in their second marriages because they've learned from their mistakes."
Well from the way W has described it, her M #2 (before I was even a twinkle in her eye) was pretty bad so I doubt that she learned very much.
Quote: What are your thoughts about when Michele says "Unless you understand that "marriage" doesn't make people happy, you will spend the rest of your life trading in marital partners for new ones."?
I wholeheartedly agree with this one! I admit that I was not very happy before W and I had our big falling out back in January of last year and was in a depressed fog for three months following that - a real mess. But from sessions with my C, reading a number of relationship books and the fine people on the DB BB, I have felt for the past several months that I am firmly in control of my own happiness. Yes my M is still on somewhat shaky ground and I am currently drawing unemployment, but there is only so much that I can control. I cannot control having employers offer me a job (although I can definitely influence them by my resume and the interviewing process) nor do I control where our M will lead except to say that I will not stand in W's way. I do feel that if she does leave, we all will lose and W will have to answer for her decisions - even if it is only in her mind.
I forget who originally said this but "He who does not remember history is condemned to repeat it." Often I feel that W is attempting to relive her own past (two failed M's, the failed M of her parents) because she does not have the strength and/or knowledge to break the pattern. I have suggestions - but W needs to be receptive to new ways to do things. Heck, that's something that I need to keep in mind as well...
Stage 3 - Everything Would Be Great If YOU Changed.
Stage 4 - That's Just The Way My Partner Is.
Stage 5 - Together, At Last!
Where do you see your relationship as being at now on the marriage map? For both you and your partner?
What stages have you been to already?
What stages have you spent the most time in, and which ones have you seemed to breeze right through, or maybe even bypassed?
How do you feel about the thought of bouncing back and forth between stages? About the stages sometimes being "three steps forward, and two steps back"? Does this help to give you hope for where you're at on the map right now?!
To quote Michele....
Quoting :The quality and quantity of love you feel for each other are never stagnant. Love is dynamic. So is marriage. The wiser and more mature you become, the more you realize this. The more you realize this, the more time you and your spouse spend hanging out in Stage 5. Together, at last.
Your thoughts on this?
For me, the possibilities are overwhelming!!!!
Last edited by Jamesjohn; 08/07/0306:13 PM.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quoting sunseeker: This is true and I keep telling myself that , but I hate when I am out and see a couple gazing into each other's eyes, etc. It makes me miss what I had with my H and wonder if I will ever have it again with him or with soemone else! The person who used to love you is now an alien!!!
Wow, when my wife and I were seperated, I went through some of those same feelings one day in a pizza parlor!
I went to pick up a pizza for my guys at work, and there was this elderly couple there, must have been in their eighties. They were having a little birthday party for the husband, and it just really touched me how loving they were towards each other. Growing old together was something that my wife and I always envisioned and talked about, and, at that particular time, it didn't look like that was going to happen. I had to step outside of the place, and have a little breakdown in my car.
It's great to now be able to joke again about us moving to a one-bedroom place, and not leaving a forwarding address with the kids!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
JJ~ It is always good to hear that someone has been in your shoes and has "lived to tell"! I am not holding out much hope right now for myself. My H is very certain he wants a D and won't talk about anything but that. We are meeting on Saturday and I am dreading it!!
Anyway...back to the book....
Quote: The quality and quantity of love you feel for each other are never stagnant. Love is dynamic. So is marriage. The wiser and more mature you become, the more you realize this. The more you realize this, the more time you and your spouse spend hanging out in Stage 5. Together, at last.
I am sure that we have been through the first three stages and have gotten stuck there. As I look back, it has become pretty clear to me where we were (stages) at different points in our marriage.
I do believe that every marriage experiences at least one major problem and only the strong survive. I am ready for this challenge and want to make my way to stages four and five, but my H doesn't. It is frustrating because I can see such a bright future if we can get over this "Bump in the road" but I can't get him to see that!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
"Most people can survive infidelity and can, in fact, make their marriage stronger once they work through the issues infidelity has brought into their lives."
Has your opinion about the chances of a marriage surviving through infidelity changed from what you may have thought before it happened to you? Possibly went from "no way", to "maybe"?
I remember when I was dating my husband that I believed if he ever cheated on me, then it was over. There was an ex-girlfriend in the mix and the whole thing was a mess.
Well, he married me and THEN told me he'd cheated.
I felt like he'd tricked me into marrying him.
Sigh.
Lots of bad feelings around that issue.
But now with the seperation, that whole issue has been on the backburner for a long time. Sometimes I still wonder if he's done it again, but for the most part I try to thought stop.
If he has done it again, I know I'll sound like a coward, but I don't want to know.
I think we could work through it, it's just I have a lot on my plate right now. Don't want another issue!
Stage 3 - Everything Would Be Great If YOU Changed.
Stage 4 - That's Just The Way My Partner Is.
Stage 5 - Together, At Last!
Where do you see your relationship as being at now on the marriage map?
ok, I'll admit I spend way to much time between 3 and 4 For both you and your partner? I can honestly say that I'm not sure of h's thoughts but I would imagine as long as I'm not complaining he'd probably say 5
What stages have you been to already? all of them
What stages have you spent the most time in, and which ones have you seemed to breeze right through, or maybe even bypassed? I think I've spent way to much time in 3 or 4 while h spends most of his time in 4 or 5, of course I feel like each time we get to 1 we breeze right through it, damn wish that we could get stuck there for a while. I think that when we get to 5, I often start to let fear pull me back to 2,3 and 4...some ridiculous prodective device in my brain I guess.
How do you feel about the thought of bouncing back and forth between stages? I think it all depends on what stages you bounce to and how often you stay in certain ones, About the stages sometimes being "three steps forward, and two steps back"? leads to a sense of despair at times "when will things ever seem "right" Does this help to give you hope for where you're at on the map right now?! knowing that there are stages and that it's somewhat normal (least I hope it is) to bounce from one to another at times helps, also knowing that things can be better (have been and can/will be again in a few days, weeks, minutes) also helps to pull me out of stage 2 when I foolishly allow myself to go there.
To quote Michele....
Quoting :The quality and quantity of love you feel for each other are never stagnant. Love is dynamic. So is marriage. The wiser and more mature you become, the more you realize this. The more you realize this, the more time you and your spouse spend hanging out in Stage 5. Together, at last.
Your thoughts on this? I think that in some sense if both partners have an understanding that things will not always be perfect in a way no matter what stage you are in you are "together at last" because you both understand the ebb and flow of the marital relationship
Quoting lostlove:I can honestly say that I'm not sure of h's thoughts but I would imagine as long as I'm not complaining he'd probably say 5
That almost sounds like it falls into one of the love illusions from the KLA tapes.....
"My wife is always nagging. Her constant complaining must be an attempt to push me away."
Do you think that this may be what HE thinks?!
The fact is....
"Nagging or complaining is often a woman's way of trying to change things for the better. Men should worry when women stop complaining."
Although this part of the tape is kind of geared towards helping men to realize that a woman's "nagging" isn't always a bad thing, there may be some things here that you could work with on your end, without him.
Or, maybe, at the right moment, you could tell him this right up front? Let him know that your "complaining" isn't meant to push him away, that you're just trying to make things better?
He might have some suggestions on what might help him listen to your "complaints" better, so he doesn't think you're just "bitching" at him.
If nothing else, LL, this might help to give you a different way to look at things, and maybe come up with some different options to experiment with.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: If nothing else, LL, this might help to give you a different way to look at things, and maybe come up with some different options to experiment with.
funny thing is it all depends on his mood (and there is no beromiter for his mood, time of day, day of week etc.) how he will respond to my "complaints" wich aren't actually complaints but more of requests for what I need/want. some times he's receptive and compationate, understanding...other times I get the "no matter what I do, it's just never enough" or of course there's the old "didn't I do that just the other day, you are so full of it, you don't even know what you are talking about, just listen to yourself" that's always a fun one....kinda the words to use when trying to create a waw.
so I guess for me it's sit back...breath in...breath out...keep busy...keep happy...try not to let resentment show or build and see what happens from there.
ie. most often I am annoyed with having to go to h instead of him comming to me (an old pattern returning)...so tonight after putting the kids to bed I went and sat outside on the hammock....h came down and sat on the picknic table nearby and began to "complain" about the weather..his being so busy...pointed out that he wasn't as busy last year...that this year it all seems never ending...that he's looking forward to having a day and a half off (sat and sun) that he's looking forward to the end of the season..and then asked if I was staying out there...I responded with...well the next time I have to wave a bug away I'm heading in...h's response was..well I'm getting chomped..comon' in...orielly is on.
though it was a nice interaction and totaly initiated and carried through by him...I always feel like I want and need some r talk...but then I think...no don't go there...it wont get you anywhere...these crappy feelings are yours...don't spoil a pleasant evening with that crap. but that crap has to be let out and in my opinion it would be best discussed with him..but to him it's just more of that crap, so what to do??? punt I suppose.
I admit that I was not very happy before W and I had our big falling out back in January of last year and was in a depressed fog for three months following that - a real mess. But from sessions with my C, reading a number of relationship books and the fine people on the DB BB, I have felt for the past several months that I am firmly in control of my own happiness. Yes my M is still on somewhat shaky ground and I am currently drawing unemployment, but there is only so much that I can control. I cannot control having employers offer me a job (although I can definitely influence them by my resume and the interviewing process) nor do I control where our M will lead except to say that I will not stand in W's way. I do feel that if she does leave, we all will lose and W will have to answer for her decisions - even if it is only in her mind. 
- but W needs to be receptive to new ways to do things. Heck, that's something that I need to keep in mind as well... 
