It's no coincidence that God has put us here on this board, I believe that. I once told myself that I would never post on here again, and well, here I am!
Interesting you mentioned that God helps us THROUGH circumstances instead of delivering us FROM them. My pastor preached that very same message, in fact he preaches from a practical standpoint, and he's very charismatic as well. His charisma seemed awkward to me at first, maybe I thought he was just putting on a show. But the more I listen to him preach, the more I am convinced that he is truly speaking from his heart and not just blowing smoke up our a$$. So I listen more intently to what God is saying to us.
Today on my way to work I found myself praying to God as if he was sitting in the front passenger seat, a living breathing person. I didn't pray for random things, or the usual, I was very specific and prayed about changing my character and letting God soften my heart again. It was hard for me to do, I had to knock down my male pride, and really had to work at accepting God's spirit to simply work in me. I felt in awe and was getting overwhelmed, so I didn't pray too much, just enough to get me focused on what I need to do today.
I also am realizing that even if I get hurt again in another R, and I get dumped and get told I'm not loved anymore - that shouldn't matter to me because we already have a God that does love us - I mean truly loves us - I hope this makes sense, but I am comforted by that fact. I don't "NEED" a woman to love me and fill the void, I "desire" one, but I really need God more. And God wants to provide us with a mate in this life anyway, so I am worrying over nothing. Part of God's plan is for us - man and woman - to be joined. That's his design for us as far as I understand it. I feel good about that. I am sure all God wants us to do is simply obey him, that's why we fell from grace, and why humanity is fallible.
I just thought I would share this today.
P.S. I also wanted to share that my pastor doesn't like the "spooky-spiritual" stuff, (keyword "spooky") ya know when Christians just seem too out there and not real? He's more concerned about things like how our marriages are doing and can we pay the bills? That's a GOOD pastor.
Last edited by ~Sol; 11/05/0802:25 PM.
~Sol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Single Dad, and luvin it! ~ Happiness is a state of mind ~
I began to read your response this morning while having my breakfast at Chick-fil-A.... As I started, the song Jesus Take the Wheel by Carrie Underwood began to play.... I remembered before the bomb, how I was in my study working and listening to that song when my exW came in, heard it playing and stormed out.... I then returned to reading your post....
I got to where you wrote:
Quote:
We have a saying in AA....
"One alcoholic helping another is without parallel".
I believe this is true also of us divorced Christians who have also found ourselves uncomfortable with our church experiences. When we hear our story told by someone else who is simply describing his own life.
Again, what happened back then with my exW shot through my mind..... God pointed out my exW was angry with Him as well as me.... It was not about me.... It was about my exW's issues... I was so touched by God... I felt like God had healed me just a little more... I sat there at Chick-fil-A with tears streaming down my face....
I know in our machismo culture, that is taboo.... I really do not worry about what our culture "teaches".... Real men have emotions.... That is just the way it is.... The great thing is real, healthy women love that....
Take Care,
RMG
Last edited by RMG77739; 11/05/0803:56 PM.
"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"
I am talking of course of AA. Which of course was founded by devout Christians and uses Biblical principles. So your observation about churches taking on too many outside issues really rings home to me. Thanks for making the connection.
Chazz, I find it so cool that AA still holds strongly to biblically-supported Christian principles ... in a world that expects the Church itself to compromise.
I belong to a splinter-group off of a church-sponsored support group. All of us are divorced or separated (I think I am the last one left whose D is not yet final, oddly) -- and most of us came out of the DivorceCare group at this church. It was the DivorceCare program that drew (the majority of) us together and got us to start healing, and got us to start looking out for one another as we struggled through our ordeals. Now that we've "graduated" we are meeting for bible studies outside of church every other week to maintain this fellowship. I can't tell you how much it has helped me -- to help others as much as to be helped myself.
In that, our group is very similar to AA -- we hold each other accountable without being too judgmental, because we've all been there.
So between my local support group and my church and my own personal time for prayer and study, I feel good at having all the key aspects of my spiritual life covered... all but one, that is. And you rightly alluded to it: the big M, but my W has ended that for me for the time being.
I will make sure I don't hold back any tears when I date!!!!
~Sol,
Remember, timing is everything my friend....
I remember when Ms. Houston and I spent the night together talking in the Hilton Hotel lobby... As an LBS, she wanted to know EVERYTHING about my exW...... At one point, it really hit me and I started to tear up....
The next day, she called me during her lunch break.... She flat out said, "I find it so attractive you are able to love a woman so deeply. What is wrong with your exW?" I was at a loss for words...
RMG
Last edited by RMG77739; 11/05/0805:10 PM.
"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"
I find it so cool that AA still holds strongly to biblically-supported Christian principles ... in a world that expects the Church itself to compromise.
NoCode....
AA does work by the principles of the Bible. However, as an organization, they do not insist that these principles be recognized as coming from the Bible. Even though it is very plain and obvious that the founders got them there.
This to me is a greater testament of the practicality of the Bible and how God works. It works so well, that even people who do not fully believe it in context can benefit.
Many of us in "The Program" are Christians. Yet we do not feel that the fact that others who are effectively using Biblical principles have to conform to our interpretation of the Bible. Thus the wording of step 3 "We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over the care of God as we understood him".
The original writing of this step did not have the last part. Many people who did not or could not believe in God as Christians understood him felt they could not participate in this incredible way to recover from Alcoholism. Until one day when an agnostic said "Well.... I dont really understand or believe in God like you guys do but I will just try the best I can and assume there may be a God and that he may be able to help".
Interestingly, he got sober and stayed sober. So have many, many other non-christians who apply the step in this way. Yet, do we all not know God only "as we understand him"? Is this not how any person starts his journey of Christianity.... believing in God as we understand him?
The fact that these people do not conform to the Christian understanding of God does not compete with my faith. Their understanding of God is sufficient to get them sober and help them live a better life. Nothing says that it is enough to give them everlasting life. Everlasting life is outside of AA's stated primary purpose. AA's stated primary purpose is to "Help alcoholics achieve sobriety". It is not a bait-and-switch program of evangelism (unlike Teen Challenge... a topic I dare not get started on).
Yet many Christians find this offensive. Many find it competing with their faith. Many take it personally that their system of beliefs is used for something other than their understanding of how the Gospel should be prosthelitized.
They overlook the fact that miracles happen. Drunks get sober. Drunks that medicine, science and yes, even churches could not help!
The Bible is so real, so true, so effective that it can even be used miraculously by non-believers. The beauty is that when one stops and gives their head a shake, they often come to realize that God has touched them, saved their lives, healed them through AA and thereby become believers in God as the bible describes Him. Yet many don't. But is that not any different than an evangelistic crusade? I am sure that event Billy Graham does not have a 100% closing ratio?
I say the Billy Graham thing tongue in cheek as I do respect him as a sincere minister with a simple and true message.
Anyway... to me... and many others.... the effectiveness and outworking of the 12 steps as discovered by AA is an experssion of God as I understand him and only proves all the more that the Bible is true and meaningful.
Quote:
It was the DivorceCare program that drew (the majority of) us together and got us to start healing, and got us to start looking out for one another as we struggled through our ordeals.
You are right... this is very much like an AA meeting. People joining together for a single, simple, focused primary purpose. Recovery from a crisis. Where one sufferer/recoveror helps another and journeys together. The primary purpose keeps it simple, workable and effective. This, I believe is "having church".
Can you imagine if your little group decided to have departments, titles, salaries, overhead, and an advertising budget? And while you're at it, take a position on the Federal election? How much time would your group members have to find the recovery that they originally showed up for?
Another AA tradition states that we function by "attraction rather than promotion". A far cry from where church has gone with its TV broadcasts, Websites that sell its "resource materials", and advertising budgets. I am sure in your group that people are there because they are "attracted" to what happens there....healing, understanding, fellowship... etc.
Now that I have said that... we have DivorceCare in our area. Maybe this would be a place for me to start?
Yet many Christians find this offensive. Many find it competing with their faith. Many take it personally that their system of beliefs is used for something other than their understanding of how the Gospel should be prosthelitized.
Chazz, I don't have a problem with that. You see, I believe God works through any and whatever means available. While He hates that we must suffer the consequences of our own doings, He lets us do so (we asked for it after all, did we not?) and tries to work these adversities to some good. By beating and controlling a substance abuse (or any other worldly habit) that puts one that much closer spiritually to Him anyway. Even if one doesn't move any closer to Him after beating their addiction, I am sure that works to His purpose at least that much. Perhaps healing the vessel is required before the healing of the spirit within sometimes. Perhaps it's the other way other times.
BTW, the church can only do so much. Even a support group can also only do so much. The Apostle Paul said that we must "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." That's where a one-on-one relationship with God comes to play.
Originally Posted By: Chazz
Now that I have said that... we have DivorceCare in our area. Maybe this would be a place for me to start?
I believe it would indeed be worth your while (and any other DB'er) to look into.
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Livin 4.... sorry, I had not read your post in detail, nor did I reply. Thank you for your input... Here are some reflections...
Quote:
'God doesn't give you more than you can handle.'
Ya know, I do believe this mostly. I do have some challenges with this concept. I had a relative die last year. That disease was more than he could handle. Perhaps my perspective is too narrow. Maybe it was his time to go. Maybe God had a bigger plan than this life here on earth. I honestly dont know.
Yet, the "mostly" that I do agree with is similar to what you mention...
Quote:
But then I think about it. Thru everything I have been thru, especially the last year, I've had some very dark times. But the lessons I have learned from them are huge. If I had not been thru those times, I wouldn't have these lessons. I would still be making the same mistakes over and over again.
This is so amazingly true in my life. And frankly, had I not gone through those times, I too would be stuck in my old thinking and not have what I have today in my life. Namely... an amazing wife, and amazing job, improving relationships with all of my family members, and freedome from anxiety, depression, and moodiness that I have had my whole life.
I had to hit such a painful bottom in my dark days that I was desparate enough to try a new way of living and thinking. For me, my old thinking took me to booze and drugs. I pretty much lost everything including house, career, almost lost my kids, and lost tons of money.
Yet, with just a few years of sobriety and recovery under my belt, things are so incredibly good compared to where they were. I have an amazing new wife for whom I can be a far better husband than I was in my first M. I have a far more honest and meaningful R with my kids than I ever did. I can relate to my family so much better. I actually know what serenity means! And it aint all about the money but I changed careers after over a decade in a fabulous profession and managed to pick off a very prosperous first year in my new profession. And this year certainly isnt bad considering we are believed to be in an economic meltdown.
So I am right there with ya. In AA, we have a saying... "Our program will not get us our life back that we lost. It gets us a brand new one. Better than what we had".
Not necessarily meaning we gain everything back. I have not gained the net worth back yet and may never. But I have something I never had. Serenity. And out of this serenity, I am free to be productive in every area of my life. Instead of being all twisted, preoccupied, depressed, and anxious in every moment.
So I guess I am serene with a lower net worth. I'll take this combination any day.
So I am right there with ya. In AA, we have a saying... "Our program will not get us our life back that we lost. It gets us a brand new one. Better than what we had".
Not necessarily meaning we gain everything back. I have not gained the net worth back yet and may never. But I have something I never had. Serenity. And out of this serenity, I am free to be productive in every area of my life. Instead of being all twisted, preoccupied, depressed, and anxious in every moment.
So I guess I am serene with a lower net worth. I'll take this combination any day.
Chazz,
That is so very true.... I never would want my old life back...
I was WAYYYYY too wound up, anxious, stressed out and fearful.... All of this I believe was caused by me entertaining thoughts I believe came from Satan.... He wants to rob us of our lives and the joy of today..... He does NOT need to get us to do something really aweful... Satan just needs to keep us distracted with negative feelings.... I see that clearly now...
I now trust my life to God..... Whatever happens, happens... He WILL walk or carry me through it..... I believe He carried me through the last two years....
As for money, whose money is it anyways? Someone here wrote it is God's money and if He wants me to have it again, He will give it to me.... That was very profound to me...
Take Care,
RMG
"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"
