Thanks everyone. This will be my last post on this thread. I'm sorry if I started a heated argument. I'd like to clear up a few points before I leave.
1) to Saffie: My wife that I'm currently married to took my virginity (and I hers) because the relationship with my unfaithful ex did not have intercourse. We engaged in most other types of sexual behavior, but not intercourse. I will not have intercourse with someone to whom I'm not married. That's part of my personal code of ethics. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clearer in my other post.
2) to Kat 727: I'm expected to support a decision which I disagree with in its fundamentals? Not a chance. This goes back to standing up for oneself; in this case, for my beliefs against someone I think is making a horrible mistake.Is having a backbone out of fashion?
3) to Little Engine: Thank you. You've been the only person here that while disagreeing with me didn't make me feel looked down on for holding to my position.May whatever Power you believe in be with you in your journey.
4) to Dancequeen: Your're right it's not the place for someone with my beliefs, but I've done my best to be civil while feeling as if I'm hated for calling for justice for the betrayed spouse. As to the other point you raise, you may think that I'm in denial, but I truly don't hate my 2.5 ex. To the contrary, I pity her;she carries with her the knowledge of her deed to her grave. Whatever code of ethics she has adopted or will adopt, she will always remember violating the most important vow ever. Rest assured that I will not ever carry such a memory. I will gladly die before I dishonor myself in such a way. As my dad (a Marine) taught me:"Death before dishonor."
You are supporting your cousin and whatever choice he sees fit to make. You are entitled to your opinion but I think if you want to stay close to your cousin you won't share your opinion and give nothing but support to him.
I am sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted to find here but this is a site where the members are trying to save their marriages despite the issues. Food for thought.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
If your cousin chooses to forgive and make a go of his marraige, be careful that you are not the casulty ! With your attitude and big opinions and I was your cousins wife, I would be keeping a BIG distance between us and you.
I think as you get older you realize everyone makes mistakes. We're all human. You hopefully get less judgemental and more tolerant. Some of us are Christians and yeah, those vows we said meant something. Even though it's maybe ok according to the Bible to get divorced, doesn't mean that's the only option. Yeah, kids are important, I have 2 special needs kids and when you have them you realize you would do just about anything for them. I think some of it is unconditional love. But yeah, I understand people that have their spouse have an A and can't get over it, and want to divorce. Each person has to make their own choices in life. Karen
2)To PuppyDogTails: I assume from your post that your're a Christian. If not, I apologize. If you are, isn't it true that no less an authority than Jesus himself said divorce was permitted for marital unfaithfulness?
TnGuy,
Yes, I am a Christian. It was my strong faith in God that helpled me get thru my ordeal last summer.
To answer your question, yes, Jesus Himself and even my conservative Catholic Church says that it's permissable to divorce on the grounds of adultery. So if that's what you want to do, you're perfectly free to do so, with no condemnation from me, nor from God as I understand Him.
However, I believe your original post was more about "how can one FORGIVE???" than it was "Is it permissable to divorce?" And on THAT subject, that same Authority commanded us to do so.
"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do" is what He said as he hung, crucified and dying, on the cross. I figure if He can forgive THAT, I can forgive my wife for a far lesser transgression.
My wife did ask me -- twice -- once during her affair, and once when she ended it: "Why ARE you still here? Why are you fighting for me, after what I've done?" I told her the following reasons:
1. I took my vow before God very seriously on our wedding day, and that it was "for better or for worse," not "for better or even better still."
2. That I still loved her.
3. That I wanted to demonstrate for our children what you do when faced with adversity -- you don't just cut and run.
4. That I personally wanted to know that I did everything I could to save my marriage and keep our family intact, and that I didn't want to go to my death bed someday with horrible regrets.
5. That I would hope if the situation were reversed -- and say I had a drug or an alcohol or a gambling addiction -- that she would do the same thing and forgive me, and fight for me until I got my mind right and was free of my addiction.
It really helped me to think of infidelity as an addiciton, which I firmly believe it is. It's a physiological fact, that even shows up on CAT scans of the brain -- the "love" chemicals that awash the wayward mind. Just Google "PEA infidelity addiction" and do the research. It's the same pernicious pull that led an otherwise sane, intelligent woman astronaut to drive across country WEARING AN ADULT DIAPER, rather than stop for bathroom breaks, to go see her man and avenge him with his other woman.
TnGuy...if you think by pitying your ex gf that means you don't hate her, then you are just confusing these two things. Your form of pitying her is to view her in discust. And holding someone in contempt and discust are basically the ingredients for hate.
This is normal and natural after someone hurts you.
However...if you think your feelings on this topic aren't clouded by what that girl did to you, then you are not very in touch with yourself.
Regardless, we are all entitled to our opinions and yours is VERY CLEAR. You hate cheaters - so okee dokee! Feel free to do so.
I feel compelled to weigh in here (moderator, please bear with me... I know that this is not the forum for a religious discussion... but I'm going somewhere with this).
I agree with everything puppydogtails said, with just one exception: Our Catholic church does not recognize civil divorce, without regard to adultery. Note the words of Jesus in Matthew 19:9, part of which are unique to the New American Bible (Catholic version): I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.
All bibles refer to "adultery" or "immorality," yet the NAB states that divorce is permitted only of the marriage was not "lawful."
And adultery is not grounds for an annulment. So as a Catholic, if my wife were to proceed with and obtain a divorce from me, I would not be permitted to marry again (we are not eligible for annulment...I checked).
OK, enough of that, as that is not the reason for my post. I am the victim of a cheating spouse (and a one-time frequent poster on these boards under a different name). I found strength in reminding myself that, unless I forgave my wife, I would not receive forgiveness from God for any of my sins.
From Sirach 27:30 - 28:5 Wrath and anger are hateful things, yet the sinner hugs them tight.
The vengeful will suffer the LORD'S vengeance, for he remembers their sins in detail.
Forgive your neighbor's injustice; then when you pray, your own sins will be forgiven.
Should a man nourish anger against his fellows and expect healing from the LORD?
Should a man refuse mercy to his fellows, yet seek pardon for his own sins?
If he who is but flesh cherishes wrath, who will forgive his sins?
Also, note Matthew 18:21 - 35
Then Peter approaching asked him, "Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
Jesus answered, "I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times.
That is why the kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who decided to settle accounts with his servants.
When he began the accounting, a debtor was brought before him who owed him a huge amount.
Since he had no way of paying it back, his master ordered him to be sold, along with his wife, his children, and all his property, in payment of the debt.
At that, the servant fell down, did him homage, and said, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back in full.'
Moved with compassion the master of that servant let him go and forgave him the loan.
When that servant had left, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a much smaller amount. He seized him and started to choke him, demanding, 'Pay back what you owe.'
Falling to his knees, his fellow servant begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
But he refused. Instead, he had him put in prison until he paid back the debt.
Now when his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were deeply disturbed, and went to their master and reported the whole affair.
His master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to.
Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?'
Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt.
So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart."
The bottom line: Forgiveness is not an option.
Me: 44 WAW: 41 3 kids: 16, 12, 6 Married 18 years
EA/PA: Sept06 - Aug08 (?) New guy (suspected): Jan08 - present
