The Longest Journey, 2

[SDFoundGirl]

Urgh, SD. I'll tell you, I just want to track down your H and b!tchslap him right now! If I found out that my W was still in contact with OM (highly unlikely given how it ended between them, but still...) I would be furious!

This is the part that (at first) I most liked. It does feel good to be indignant and wounded and the victim...for a while. Yes, he is a doofus. Yes, he is clueless. Yes, he is crossing that boundary, and dammit, I AM right. Just call me Queen Right.

OK, gonna try to be more constructive now...

Let me ask a question: Setting aside for the moment the impact on you and upon your R, WHY do you think Dimwit is still contacting LW? What "need" does it fulfill? He must be getting some sort of reinforcement from the behavior, something that keeps him coming back for more in spite of the risk.

Imagine, if you can, that you DID lay everything on the table with H. And that he could respond in a way that was truthful, and not completely tainted by embarrassment and anger at having been found out. What would "his side of the story" be?

It is to your credit and our long standing friendship on these boards (and, maybe, to my actually learning something from all of this crap we've gone through) that I didn't just say F-you and throw a tantrum about how wrong and mean and wrong and, um, wrong you were to ask that. But as soon as I read what you wrote I knew you hit it right on the DB head. Dang it.

I know my H...I know his energy...and he is so not the same person he was prior to DBing. He's really a good guy, and it's that good guy stuff that probably worked a hella lot in my favor when it all hit the fan. I don't feel the same distance from him that I did before, so I know there's nothing really there. Probably friendship, probably a bit of guilt because the friendship scaled way back with no explanation from H (and he truly worries about what others might think and doesn't have the huevos to explain to her) and he doesn't want her to feel bad.

BUT...to my goodfriendRobwhoIsortawantedtokickinthemancookiesjustalittlebit's question....

What might be there? Honestly, probably being upbeat, expressing my sexuality via the way I dress and act. I have been somewhat avoiding sex for a whole host of reasons...not a drought, but it's definitely a slow spot just now because I haven't put on my big girl panties and discussed the whole child issue with H (well, until a couple of weeks ago, and we're still in negotiations), so I was unrightfully angry with him and the lack of progeny. That issue has affected my mood too, so I've been more withdrawn...along with the whole stupid whore with really roached hair issue.

So, I need to take responsibility for what I need to say, and I need to get back in touch with my sexuality. I find myself wondering where the SD who pranced around in her nighties went, and my only answer is my butt is a little bigger than it was when I couldn't keep food down and I am self-conscious...although H seems as into me as ever, especially when I'm dressed up. Which I will be more often, now that summer is over *sigh* and I can't just bum around in shorts and sweats every day.

GAL is really good, maybe too good in that tonight is the first night this week I will see my husband for longer than 60-minutes before we go to bed. I've made a lot of friends and am out doing things most nights, especially this summer. H is happy about this, especially my connections with new people. But when I mentioned our tech guy and joking around with him at school (he is funny and a really good guy that some other teachers are sort of snarky to), I noticed that he suddenly took an interest in going to a staff party he'd had no interest in prior.

I can only control me, right? I want guarantees...but in reality, no one can give that to you. My only guarantee is that I am strong enough to survive anything and be happy. Isn't that enough?

Still working on that....

SD

[Rob1231]

Urgh, SD. I'll tell you, I just want to track down your H and b!tchslap him right now! If I found out that my W was still in contact with OM (highly unlikely given how it ended between them, but still...) I would be furious!

This is the part that (at first) I most liked. It does feel good to be indignant and wounded and the victim...for a while. Yes, he is a doofus. Yes, he is clueless. Yes, he is crossing that boundary, and dammit, I AM right. Just call me Queen Right.

Yeah, I liked that part best too! Sorry.

It is to your credit and our long standing friendship on these boards (and, maybe, to my actually learning something from all of this crap we've gone through) that I didn't just say F-you and throw a tantrum about how wrong and mean and wrong and, um, wrong you were to ask that. But as soon as I read what you wrote I knew you hit it right on the DB head. Dang it.

Well, let me say that it is to your credit and our long standing friendship, as well as my respect and firm belief in everything you've learned, that I was able to say that! Not everyone would be able to hear it, even if it was said.

BUT...to my goodfriendRobwhoIsortawantedtokickinthemancookiesjustalittlebit's question....

I'm afraid work is absolutely INSANE today and I can't put the time I would like into a reply right now. I'll catch up later. In the meantime, slinking off with my legs firmly crossed...

[Rob1231]

OK, SD, my day has settled down from crazy to just aggravating. Why won't someone just pay me big bucks to hang out here on the BB and give advice and ask aggravating questions?

From what you've said about H, the "he doesn't want to hurt LW's feelings" bit just rings true to me. So, let's see - what do I suppose is going on in H's head?

In H's head, LW never was guilty (because she didn't really get it about his infatuation) and so it's not "fair" that she should be punished. Maybe he even considers her a special friend who in some unknowing way helped him make it through the dark times of his MLC.

In H's head, SD never knew about the unsent letter. Maybe she suspected something about his feeling for LW, but, hey that all ended "without anything ever coming of it...." So, H just doesn't get why SD has such a burr up her butt about this.

In H's head, H himself never acted out any of his MLC-inspired fantasies about LW. So, heck, HE is not even "guilty." Maybe he even soothes himself with the idea that he had the good sense and courage never to actually go out and HAVE that affair. (You and I would have a different opinion on that issue, fer sure! But remember, we're talking about what somebody who was really messed up has to tell himself to get through the day....)

So, what to do? Well, I suspect it may mean either pushing on the issue and bringing it to a head, or just plain letting it go.

One thing that I did wonder, you mentioned how much of your GALing is being done solo, rather than as a couple. There's a balance to be maintained there - maybe it's time to focus a tad more on some couple activities? Rather than forcing H to forget all about skanky ol' LW, what if your strategy was to make him so busy and engaged doing fun things with his beautiful wife that he forgot all about her, all on his own?

Also, I certainly understand how you are feeling torn about H's hesitation regarding kids. I think I posted to you a while back, we males can be pretty thick-headed and chicken-sh!t when it comes to taking that plunge. It doesn't mean he'll never step up or that he won't make a terrific dad - but it could mean he needs a little shove to get out of that no-kids-no-cares-no-obligations comfort zone. Give him a good nudge!

Rob

P.S. Jen has decided she needs a nice long mental vacation from the boards here. (Check her post on the "After Reconciling" board.) She asked me in a message on f@c3b00k to tell you that she's thinking of you. (We both think you need to get yourself a fb account, BTW!)

P.P.S. Fear not, you will always be that utterly amazing woman prancing around in her nighties to me!

[Rob1231]

Hey SD... Hoping I haven't p1ssed you off (not sure my man cookies could handle the repercussions!) Thinking of you!

[SDFoundGirl]

No worries, your man cookies are safe. I am just ridiculously busy with the start up of school, and I'm letting your ever-wise words marinate and sink in.

I tend to agree with you, and I think where H and I both need to work is on GAL together. We have always been crazy-independent people, and the things we enjoy doing together are more large scale like adventure and travel. We *haven't* been hiking lately though, and that's something we both want to get back to.

I think letting it go is what I *need* to do, but not sure how to do that yet...I'm working on it. Strangely enough, H and I have been having an extended, sort of funny but really interesting conversation about how men get turned on and want sex. I made the comment to him that he was acting like it had been a long time since we'd DTD, and he responded, "Is that what you think? That my interest is predicated on length of time since we've last ML?" Well, yes, that IS what I thought, and I told him so.

He filled me in on all the things that could possibly happen to put him in the mood. I'm wearing a dress...the wind blows...my hair is falling over my neck in a certain way...he sees an attractive woman in public (which bothered me at first, but he says it's more of a trigger, like yeah, I haves me a hot woman at home, I'd like to do it)...and so on. That was a real eye-opener to me. How do I not know this? Like, I know what to do to get his interest, but I was thinking more about what would prompt him to initiate.

Anyway, it's become a fun little conversation between us, and today I actually caught the moment that went through his head because of the way he looked at me. I had on a well fitting t-shirt, and I saw the little SHAZAM go through his mind. I was on my way to a massage, and he was on his way out the door for an overnight with his buddies for the fantasy football draft, so we couldn't act on it...but I see the potential to have some fun and play around with this concept.

I think we mostly need more play together. *I* am the goofball, free spirit, and H is more self-regulated. The best ML sessions have always been a bit more playful in nature, so this is where I'm going to focus my attention.

Sound good?

SD

PS--I *do* have a fb account...I think I have your email somewhere, so I'll look you up and then you can point me to Jen!

[Rob1231]

Anyway, it's become a fun little conversation between us, and today I actually caught the moment that went through his head because of the way he looked at me. I had on a well fitting t-shirt, and I saw the little SHAZAM go through his mind. I was on my way to a massage, and he was on his way out the door for an overnight with his buddies for the fantasy football draft, so we couldn't act on it...but I see the potential to have some fun and play around with this concept.

I'm impressed - way to go! Nice, open, friendly conversations about s-e-x - what a novel and wonderful concept!

I think we mostly need more play together. *I* am the goofball, free spirit, and H is more self-regulated. The best ML sessions have always been a bit more playful in nature, so this is where I'm going to focus my attention.

Sound good?

Sounds absolutely PERFECT.

PS--I *do* have a fb account...I think I have your email somewhere, so I'll look you up and then you can point me to Jen!

Excellent!

[Jeff223]

Interesting exchanges here. They are helping me believe it or not - things to do/ not do in my next relationship.

SD - I need not say this b/c you already know. But I will say it anyway:

Think hard on the children thing.

I love my kids to death, but if someone told me that I would be divorced before they turned eight, well ................

No advice. Just consider carefully. What needs to be in place in your relationship before children arrive?

Set that boundary and see if you and H can work it.

[SDFoundGirl]

Things are good. I don't know exactly what helped me shift, but I have definitely shifted. I am, essentially, suspending disbelief.

Since I have been more relaxed and playful, H has been more relaxed and playful. We are having fun together for possibly the first time in our M. I've realized that my playful, goofy nature is a major thing I bring to our M; H needs more of that in his ever so responsible life.

H has also been supportive when I've needed it (the first couple of weeks back to school/teaching are always flattening), and he's asked for help and support when he's needed it (which NEVER happened before). We are communicating, checking things out with each other, and having more fun.

Jeff...I hear what you are saying, but I'm wondering IF you could go back now, would you change having children? Even knowing the outcome? The reality for me is that I am 39, had trouble conceiving when we did try, and I want to be a mom. Honestly...it's probably the first time H and I REALLY want to have a child together. It's like we've jumped a hurdle together, and now we can do it.

Strangely, though, I feel less urgency and less of a power struggle now that I've let go of a lot of stuff. I feel pretty clear that H has no real interest in LW. I feel like I can let go and risk hurt again...and that I will be okay no matter what.

Time will only tell...

SD

[Jeff223]

but I'm wondering IF you could go back now, would you change having children? Even knowing the outcome?

Interesting question and difficult. I love my kids but they deserve a whole family.

My mom and dad did not get along all that well and I still remember one of my biggest fears growing up was that my parents would divorce. I was so afraid b/c I just knew that my world would end.

So I know my dovorce is affecting my kids. They don't talk about it but I remember how I felt just considering the possibility. I can only imagine how I would have felt given if it were reality.

And I can't wait until xW or I start a relationship with someone else. That must really suck for the kids despite seeing *happy* blended families on the sitcoms.

Biological clocks are strong. Stay as objective as you can not letting the clock cloud your assessment.

And before the birth control stops, have that talk with H. Remind him of what you discuss here. Remind him again of your fears and concerns. Discuss how he, and you will commit. Discuss how you will parent BEFORE the kids come.

And put all the cards on the table, as scary as that is. He needs to know what you know before the kids enter the picture.

If you two have kids then jointly make the commitment. Sure, anything can happen later anyway, but at least you will leave no stone unturned going in.

[faithisbelieving]

There is no doubt in my mind that I would still have had my children. I love them so dearly. They are my life. On the other hand, it rips my heart out everynight...as I watch them warm, asleep, and their chest moving up and down ever so slowly....that this is happening to them. If it weren't for them, and if I hadn't found DB, I would have 'thrown my W out' a long time ago. I stayed in this as long as I could...for them. The thought of not being there with them, in the morning, to watch cartoons and pour milk on their Cocoa Puffs..is a pain that I could never put into words here on your thread.

If I didn't have children, I would have left this world feeling empty..unfulfilled....and feeling like I hadn't left something behind. I've wanted a family my whole life..in some ways....I think...to undo or do over what my father failed at.

Having children..or even a child....DOES make life more challenging, and, I agree with Jeff. Adding a child onto a marriage that is in piecing (or..? leaving and moving forward?)...well, I agree that it behooves you two to go for that proverbial long walk. It makes no sense to start a family...only to have it broken...if the foundation is not totally shored up. JMO.

On the positive side, even tho' I am approaching a big BD next year, I would have a third if I could. Doody diapers don't daunt me.

FIB