Maybe not in a "terrific" place but far beter that I was before..
take a breath Red. You know my history I HAVE BEEN THERE. He needes to decide to move on or not.
I have kept my promise when I got married. this is not a tit for tat. This is real. If I remember right you came close also to making a "mistake" once done it can never be undone. If it does not work out I will not need to say to my son. "Well dad started seeing this other woman becasue your mom needed help...."
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
In this case, I tend to agree with Red. From what I can see of the situation, they are seperated (both physically and emotionally) and she is not showing an interest in working on the marriage.
As long as he approaches this by being up front and honest with this other person, I don't see any harm in having some casual companionship (and I don't necessarily mean sex). Back at the end of last year when things were at the lowest of lows, I met a couple of women that I was interested in. Had a couple of dates and was straight with them about my situation. My W found out about this at some point (I think it was before we started piecing), but my point is that this didn't end up being a deal breaker. (Disclaimer here... we are seperated now but there were three good months of piecing, so I really think these dates were inconsequential.)
It can have positive results both from the perspective that the WAS will see others having interest in the LBS and also the LBS will get a big PMA boost.
I understand that every situation is different and there is the possibility that it can backfire, so this is a very personal decision.
First of all, I really do appreciate both of you posting your thoughts here to help me sort out this mess.
Each of you has said things that have been helpful. Thanks for sharing you points of view.
As for me, I don't think I would follow through anything with an OW unless and until we got a D.
And we won't know what will happen in 11 mos. when the time of seperation is over.
Right now I am struggling with my feelings. I have just begun to wonder if it can work out. If I have the stamina required to deal with W's snappy, abusive attitude, to put up with someone who at this time does not seem interested in working on herself.
And btw, everyone in our families think the counselor dropped the ball on a lot of things (she is seeing a new one now, but who knows if that one is any better ?), but I am not so sure that W was as forthcoming about her stuff as she needed to be.
I don't know all that they talked about since I wasn't there most of the time.
BTW, how can it be called marital counselling when only one spouse was there ? She claims to everyone she was going those 7 yrs. alone for marriage counselling, trying to save our marriage.
She only ever asked me once (last fall) if I wanted to go by myself to see C. I said, well, maybe, but the only thing I thought I might talk about was my frustrations w/ W., which I didn't think would change.
But apparantly in retrospect she was actually saying, ' You need to go, buddy, cause you're the one who is messed up'.
So much for clear communication.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
I have been there. I came so close to making a decision that at the time seemed right but deep down I knew it wasn't. When it is over it is over. Until then ya can't do anything that can't be fixed / undone. NOBODY in our family knows that my Wife had an affair. It would have made it easier for me to tell them if I wanted out. But..... If we do work things out it will be easier if only we know... Understand? Once I spill the beans I can't undo it. Same thing with "dating". There is no problem going out meeting someone and dancing or just talking BUT I had a problem with keeping it at that. I did not do anything but....Feeling like we do. Sometimes someone listening to you AND a female that cares......It's hard to not become attached. (No pun intended).
Take care buddy
Dr Love
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
NOBODY in our family knows that my Wife had an affair. It would have made it easier for me to tell them if I wanted out. But..... If we do work things out it will be easier if only we know... Understand? Once I spill the beans I can't undo it.
DR L, Not telling the family while hard in many respects certainly makes things easier in the long run when and if things get patched up. I made the mistake of telling some of my family a little too much. Again, this is something that I don't think threw a wrench in the works with in us actually fixing things, but it didn't make anything easier. Vent to people here, not family.
And btw, everyone in our families think the counselor dropped the ball on a lot of things (she is seeing a new one now, but who knows if that one is any better ?)
...
BTW, how can it be called marital counselling when only one spouse was there ? She claims to everyone she was going those 7 yrs. alone for marriage counselling, trying to save our marriage.
She only ever asked me once (last fall) if I wanted to go by myself to see C. I said, well, maybe, but the only thing I thought I might talk about was my frustrations w/ W., which I didn't think would change.
But apparantly in retrospect she was actually saying, ' You need to go, buddy, cause you're the one who is messed up'.
So is still going to 'marriage' counseling? Here is what I would suggest... Talk to her and tell her (if this is truly what you want - I'm guessing it is cause you are here) that you want to work on saving the marriage. That you love her and want to fix the marriage. Tell her that you want to go to counseling with her and you'd also be willing to do some individual counseling. Sounds like there is a lot that is not getting communicated. (I think this is a common ailment around these parts)
native Sorry for hyjacking your thread. this will be the last I promiss but YES Hope4. I know this, This is the point that I was trying to convey to Native. what ever you do you need to think beyond that moment. It is so hard not to tell. Wife sometimes acts like it never happened. In side I want to say WHAT? but then agian maybe she is so ashamed that she wants to forget it ever happened. Native,
It is GREAT PMA to have someone come onto you.especialy when your wife makes you feel worthless. (Mine Did). It would be so easy to "justify" anything. but I think you are a wise man and know in your heart. window shopping is fine but you can't take anything out for a "test drive" until you can afford it. Like you said. when you are legaly divorced or separated.
Dr Love
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Hope4fortune: "So is still going to 'marriage' counseling? Here Here is what I would suggest...."
She knows absolutely that I want to save the marriage. She does not feel ready to do anything to work on our relationship. We saw a real marriage counselor months ago and though she liked the counselor, was not interested in working on marriage.
She also has some tapes by Ellen Kriedman that I gave to her. I said they were giving me a lot of insight and help re: understanding what makes a marriage work and the needs of the opposite sex. At first I thought she might actually listen to them, but two days later she let me know she was not ready. That was about a week ago.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
What really kills me is W's lack of connection with 6 yo. D. I can get by, I can go on and create a new life, new love etc if it comes to it, but what about our precious child ?
I've realized since D was about 1 yo. that W was not doing well in nurturing her, so I began to compensate by spending more time singing, rocking, looking into her eyes, talking and playing with her. My reward ? A very close relationship w/D and a W who accuses me of putting child first.
5 yrs. later, tonight, here's what transpires:
I was putting D to sleep, rubbing some Vicks mentolatum on her chest to help her breath better. I said: 'My mommy did this for me when I had trouble breathing through my nose. Someday you will do this for your own children.'
She replied: ' I might not have children'
I was shocked, but I said, 'Maybe you won't. But why do you think that ?'
She was quiet, so I began gently questioning,' Sometimes I may be impatient, but you know Daddy loves you don't you?
She readily acknowleged that she knows I love her.
'And I think that you are the greatest thing that could have happened to mommy and daddy.'
The real warning flag however came when we talked about her R with her Mommy. D was clearly not sure that her Mommy really wanted to be with her. W. shows impatience very quickly with D. and instead of interacting with her, they 'bond' by watching movies together.
In fact, they watched 3 movies together on Labor Day. It was a perfectly beautiful day and they sat on a couch for 6+ hrs. without interacting with each other and that is what passes for bonding.
They did some other things W had planned that day, but they were activities chosen by W with no input from D. At the end of day when she brought D back home she started 'sharing' but really complaining about how D was ungrateful because at the end of the day, D asked ' Is this all we are going to do ? I'm bored.'
W accused me and my mom of spoiling her because we take her to the zoo, or the childrens museum, or to feed the ducks or something where she interacts with life and us.
While W complained to me after the only whole day she has spent with D in a month, D was curled up on couch face down with fingers in her ears. I don't blame her. Who wants to hear their mommy complain about them to her daddy ?
Along the same lines, W had lined up a play therapist for D on the advice of her lifelong friend and child development PH D who wisely suggested D should have her own therapist to help her get through the eventual divorce ( the D word has not been in use that much lately).
After several sessons, it became clear to the play therapist that our D's relationship to her Mommy was weak or missing.
In the therapy, children are allowed to create storys with model characters in a sandbox. Apparantly the nurturing parent was always Daddy, never mommy.
The therapist told me she would like to see Mom and d. together to work on that relationship.
I haven't told W that yet, because she does not like to hear from me that there is a problem. This is not a new topic with us.
In fact, unless W gets her head out of her #ss, the inescapable conclusion for me is that this is a woman who is not only incapable of maintaining a marriage, but can't manage dealing with a wonderful, curious, energetic and beautiful child for 12 hrs.
I feel thats one more reason I need to really move on and find another wife/mommy figure for D to get some female nurturing and an idea about what a loving marriage is supposed to look like.
I wish it were not so, but nothing really gives me any encouragement that W is willing to deal with her crap and wake up.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
After tonight I don't think I can say we are peicing anymore.
Not that we had a big blowout, but W is treating me like she did a month ago when she physically left house. Very distant, cold and on the verge of complete attack.
I think her renewed sucky attitude is because she is worried I will not be able to pay the mortgage, her credit score will be affected if I cant, and she feels pressure to move out of Moms house, get her own place. She needs the money she has been paying for mortgage to get her own place.
We had split the bills about 50/50 and now since Im staying in the house I will pay for the mortgage/utilities and she will pay all the credit cards.
I'm a little concerned since my work is seasonal and we are headed into the slower holiday season.
(Funny how she was never worried about our credit score before. Almost like she didnt even know what one was.)
Anyway, I was hoping we would have a more congenial conversation since we had not communicated much this week.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
