Q&A with the WAS

[istherehope]

Hi HIC and Christa,

I'm a LBS with a WAH...I know that the male/female perspective on these situations may be different, but I'd still love to hear your perspective as there must be some similarities.

My questions for you:

1)Did you ever say things about the relationship, undermining things like you didn't know if you wanted to be married anymore? If you did say these things, did you mean them at the time or were you testing your H in any way?

2)Did you feel depressed at the time that you were the WAS, and was this part of what led to the decision to WA?

3)During the time that you were the WAS, on any level were you glad that your H was fighting for the marriage even though you wanted less pressure about it? I guess what I'm trying to ask is whether this commitment made up in any way for the way you felt you'd been neglected in your Rs?

Thanks so much!

ITH

[istherehope]

Hi Christa,

I'll take a stab at this one...

I might have a somewhat different situation than most in that I do have nearly constant contact with my WAH, by his choice. We IM at least every other day. I think he is being very honest and open with me (too much so in some cases), so if he decided to recommit, I would probably trust his commitment to me, but I am not sure how I would react initially.

That said though, like BH, I am starting to feel a bit angry. I think it is a natural part in the process where after we have actually made the needed changes, and are working so hard, we see that the the WAS is still hardened to us, and it gets to be really hard to handle.

I am not sure how your contact was with your H when you were the WAS, how open and honest you were through the process, and what kind of things you said to him. If you said some very hurtful things, no matter how justified, I think it is only natural that his anger would start to build. I think that I have to go back to what has been said so many times on this board that it would be the actions that counted. If H said he wanted to recommit, it would take me seeing the actions that backed this up for quite some time before my anger subsided. I also think anger is based in fear, fear of getting hurt again. He is probably afraid to open up to you again. Are there actions that you can take, things that you can do to show him how sincere you are? Is it a 180 for you to express your feelings? Could you try writing him a letter? Have you spoken to a DB coach yet?

Unfortunately I do think LRT might be the only way to reach him, unless there are other 180s that involve contact.

Have you been begging and pleading? While it may not be fair, if he is angry, he might actually feel that you have this coming after what he feels you put him through. I could only imagine that if H were to suddenly offer to recommit, there would be a big part of me that would want to test him, would want to see how far he was willing to go. However, if he just went dark on me after all of this, I would definitely still take him back, and I'd probably panic a little.

Hope this is somewhat useful...

ITH

[christarn]

ITH~ Thanks so much for the feedback. I have had a DB coach since last june...she's great!! I've tried LRT, going dark, writing a letter, there really isn't anything i have not tried. at first i did the begging/pleading thing...but quickly backed off of that. then i came here...met some really GREAT people...and I'm learning as I go!! i'm truly learning to 'do work" as forrest gump says!!! anyway...thanks for some awesome suggestions!!

now onto you!!!

"1)Did you ever say things about the relationship, undermining things like you didn't know if you wanted to be married anymore? If you did say these things, did you mean them at the time or were you testing your H in any way?"

I said so many mean things, I can't even remember them all. I don't ever think I meant them, but at the time I was soooo angry, the anger was within myself. When I began to process everything, it was me who needed to figure "life" out. I really was not "testing" H in any way...i was just sooo frustrated, we stopped communicating, we fought all the time, we stopped "dating" having fun together, he did his thing, i did mine...it was really a sad sitch. i just want a chance to show him, now that i have my life back together that i can do this...i can be a better wife than i was...he just has said, i should have never take my anger out on him...if i truly loved him, i would not have done what i did.


"2)Did you feel depressed at the time that you were the WAS, and was this part of what led to the decision to WA?"

YES!!! I was being treated for depression at the time I WA. Unfortunately, I was on the wrong anti-dep. med, and I was seeing a IC who encouraged separation/D...I had also lost both of my parents within a few years of eachother...and a few years prior to all of this. Everything just built up. Now, I'm 150% better, I am on the correct anti-dep. meds, seeing a MD, who is correctly adjusting them...and stopped seeing the IC who was telling me to go for the D.


"3)During the time that you were the WAS, on any level were you glad that your H was fighting for the marriage even though you wanted less pressure about it? I guess what I'm trying to ask is whether this commitment made up in any way for the way you felt you'd been neglected in your Rs?"

My H only fought for about 2 months, then stopped, about 1-2 mos after, the tables turned...but he didn't really want to work things out. We "dated" on and off, at his choice, until early this year...then he decided to stop seeing me all together. We were texting back and forth, then that ceased as of last week. I truly thought he would want to work things out...he's never been a "quitter" we both agreed prior to getting M, we would not get a D, it was a deal we made...and look at us now...it's so sad.

If you have more questions...feel free to ask!!! Hope this helps you

christa

[istherehope]

Wow thanks for the great responses to my questions!

Out of curiosity, in your case, is your H absolutely opposed to seeing a counselor with you? Would he be opposed to something like an intensive with Michelle? Does your H realize that you were that depressed, and does he realize that that played a part in the things that you said? Do you think if you could get him in front of a therapist who might validate that that kind of behavior is typical for someone suffering depression it might help?

So then a couple more questions about being a WAS too if that's OK...

1) Did you feel guilty while you were the WAW? If so did this play any part in you not wanting to be around your H?

2) Did you doubt your decisions as you made them during the process? Just wondering whether you were confused, or felt like you had clarity?

Thanks!

ITH

[nothavingfun]

Morning Christa,

I said so many mean things, I can't even remember them all. I don't ever think I meant them, but at the time I was soooo angry, the anger was within myself. When I began to process everything, it was me who needed to figure "life" out.


i just want a chance to show him, now that i have my life back together that i can do this...i can be a better wife than i was...he just has said, i should have never take my anger out on him...if i truly loved him, i would not have done what i did.

Did you tell him this?

[christarn]

NHF~ I tried last summer to explain so many things to him, but he doesn't believe anything that comes out of my mouth...there is absolutly ZERO trust. he said after what i did, how could he be certain i wouldn't go back to being "the mean angry monster" (that is what i now call myself, or how i refer to myself, as to the person i was during that time frame!) I could never go back to being her...wow, i long for an open and honest relationship, where i can share my thoughts and feelings openly and honestly...which i did with him...up until a certain point...then we just stopped talking and being together....i could never go back to that. So long story short, there really isn't anything I have not tried to tell him! Thanks for the suggestions...truly appreciate it

ITH! I'm glad I was able to help, I'm happy to answer any of your questions...and i appreciate, so much the feedback you are giving/sharing as well!! I would LOVE to do an intensive with Michelle, and would be more than willing to pay for it...and could do so, but as of now, he won't even answer my texts...so I'm not sure how i could get him on a plane to Colorado?? (not trying to be a smart arss there either) any ideas?? i think him talking to me, and michelle facilitating would be so awesome and beneficial...since she is the leading expert on WAS, but like i said..it's getting him "there" that is holding me back!!

Alright enough about me...blah blah blah....on to you!!! !

"1) Did you feel guilty while you were the WAW? If so did this play any part in you not wanting to be around your H?"

I had absolutely zero guilt until he and I started talking more, and I truly realized how bad I had hurt him...then the guilt kicked in...and wow, I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive myself for the pain i caused him. It must have been horrendous...i know the pain i am feeling now, and each time he says something mean the wounds grow deeper...so i think/feel that is an outcry from how he feels, which is pain, and hurting.


"2) Did you doubt your decisions as you made them during the process? Just wondering whether you were confused, or felt like you had clarity?"

I wavered back and forth for about 6 months about getting a D..not neccesarily WA...just telling him I wanted a D...then things got better for a while, then I found out he went from a party to another party with his ex girlfriend, and they were texting back and forth...he tried to lie about it. I knew then I was done. That was oct. of 06, i moved out while he was on vaction in jan of 07...we tried MC, and i was truly ready to try, but then the phone bill came, he was talking to same OW as mentioned above while we were supposed to be "working" on our R/M...so went to my L...and filed for D. I let anger get the best of me. I don't know how christian you are...but i pretty much let evil little satan rule my brain...damn that little devil!

I hope, again, this gives you some more insight, please don't hesitate to keep picking my brain...i'm happy to brainstorm with you. I feel as if knowledge is power...it makes me, feel like if i know/understand what is going on, or what he could be going thru...i might be able to adapt some of things i do accordingly, or be at ease about some of things going on his head...if that makes sense!!

hugs 2 you both for your input on my side of things
take care, keep the questions coming, i'm happy to help!!
christa

[HFGW]

Thank you, thank you ladies. You are providing an invaluable service. This will bring me at least some piece of mine.

Summary of my sticch. After 17 years, W drops bomb on EA (maybe PA) in March. We are on divorce track. Of course I believe I have been a good husband - good money, nice home, lots of family travel, me good with household help, lots of hired household help for her to do own thing. Problems - emotional distance, loneliness, W feeling unaccomplished as a writer/poet, me not knowing her love language. Of course I did all the wrong things when the bomb was dropped in March. Did MC, W did not drop affair so no real chance. Agreed to D and working with mediator. W believes she has been slave to my demands (still do not know how as I always viewed W as equal and never asked for anything), W does not believe trust can be restored because of EA (from note I saw lying around), W believes she deserves better H.

My questions to you:
1) I am doing the LRT but, I believe, my Ws love language is quality time. How do you feel about the LRT?

2) We are living together and while I am not talking about R, I can see she wants to get the D over with. Will D provide us with a better chance to reconcile?

3) How did you feel about whether trust could be restored with H? We want to be friends but she is very distance now and frankly I think there have been other EAs. Should I tell her that she needs to work on rebuilding my trust in her?

Your feedback is invaluble. Thanks

[nothavingfun]

Christa,

I know.

I spent 11 months dumping my heart out but getting no where. I took full responsibility and validated her feelings she was having from the beggining. (wants/needs not met)

The hardest part of that is when they don't respond. Ignor you.


I had something happen last week and it has really got my head in a mess. I gave in and sent her an email after about 10 days NC. It was pretty simple but I am sure it was "pursuing in nature". It just said, I miss you so much in my life. I wanted to be there for you and the girls. I wanted you to be proud of me. I haven't played late night cribbage in a long time.

She responded back (which is rare in itself) and said she was sorry. Really. She told me she was proud of me. Thought I did a great job on the house. ( I bought a house that had to be remodeled before it was livable and that really cut into the wants and needs time she wanted from me) She told me how the girls were doing and she said we could play cribbage (on-line cribbage) sometime.

I responded back and told her I didn't want her to just be proud of me for the house. I wanted you to be able to say- thats my man and he loves me. He is working hard right now but he is getting something accomplished. And he has a dangerous job but he takes me and my girls with him on every call (in a photo).

I finished it by saying, I am sure you have the girls ready to start school.

She responded to that but only about the girls and how they were true to their personalities in how they were feeling about the start of school.

So she responds (or at least recently started) to some things as long as it doesn't seem R related. But what do I do here? Do I keep going with my LRT or do I text her for a game next week?

[christarn]

HFGW~

The first two questions are really difficult for me to answer as I am at the opposite end of the spectrum, I do know it hurts when my H is "dark" and avoids me, but also know I get more response out of him the times I have went dark. I can not say whether a D will bring the two of you closer together or not...that is one heck of a loaded question!!!! Either way answered, there will be hurt and anger that will need to be dealt with, sooner rather than later, no matter the LL of the persons involved. IMHO!

"How did you feel about whether trust could be restored with H? We want to be friends but she is very distance now and frankly I think there have been other EAs. Should I tell her that she needs to work on rebuilding my trust in her?"

Trust is a two way street, it is give and take. It starts with baby steps. If my H gave me a chance today, and asked that i called him every hour with an update of where i was and what i was doing, you had better believe i would do it in a heart beat...i would do what i needed to do to make him feel safe with me again. He trusted me with his heart, with his love, and i broke that trust. And in a very cruel way...I would do whatever he felt necessary to regain that feeling of trust, until slowly he felt comfortable again. When trust is broken, it takes time, patience and compassion for it to be restored; it takes a partner who is forgiving and ready to do all of the above and give the other partner whatever he/she needs to feel safe again.


NHF~

"So she responds (or at least recently started) to some things as long as it doesn't seem R related. But what do I do here? Do I keep going with my LRT or do I text her for a game next week?"

These are just a few suggestions I would have...act as if. One thing I had to learn, and it took me a long time to learn this one, he is no longer my H, he is my friend, so i had to quit looking at him as a S...look at her as a friend, nothing more, nothing less. How would you text a friend? Also, lay off of the R talks...plain and simple....putting any pressure on her is going to backfire in your face, and move you back further each time. She is your friend, nothing more nothing less. I don't want you to think i am being cruel, I just want to help you, so you do not make the same mistakes i have made. If you haven't already talk to a DB coach...they are great. they help to make this stuff so much easier. Talking to her about the R, will just make her feel bottled up, and anxious...or when my H and I first split and he wanted to talk about our R/M all the time, I would get angry...he didn't want to talk about it when we were together, and needed to, why now? Be her friend, show her you can do that...and show her your awesome changes/180's...have you set goals? keep yourself busy, it makes time go smoother and faster, so you will not be so preoccupied with all of this. Trust me, you can do this...if you would have asked me a year ago, how long i would wait...i never would have said 2 years...but now that 2 years is coming up...hell yeah i'm going to wait two years...i'll even say 3. It's the first 3-4 months that are the hardest to get thru. YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!! YOU CAN DO THIS!!! one minute, one hour, one day at a time. go buy paint by numbers and do them upside down...it helps relax your brain!! watch church on the internet...joelosteen.com(he's inspirational christian) if you are a church person, go for a walk, buy dishes at a yard sale, then break them all...just alleviate frustrations....keep yourself busy!!!

take care both of you guys!!
sorry it took so long to get back with you, it's midterms this week..so i'm hit and miss around here this whole week!! gotta do good in school

hugs
christa

[nothavingfun]

Thanks Christa,

It is easier to not talk about the R when she is responding. I just feel like I should pull back and make her wonder. That would be a 180 she isn't expecting.


LOL-I've already made the mistakes you made.

Good luck on midterms...let us know when you got the results of acing them.


J