Guilty as charged.. I am a WAW.

[Bridgestone]

Hi Forrest.Thanks for stopping by.

C. asked me what it was like to have H just listen. I said it was weird. He asked me why and H interrupted and said, because I always interrupt her. The counselor said, oh really?

I can't remember exactly what he said. I'm much better at his non-verbals.. he had his nervous laugh, his toe scuffing the floor action, hands crossed behind his back. Something to the effect of

"I'm terrible at just listening" "I almost always jump in (or interrupt - can't remember he's exact word usage here) before she's done"

I am assuming he was on the mat.. and he was blaming you for his actions.. or did you two start back and forth communication again?

He was on the mat talking & had worked his way around the wheel with his thoughts, emotions, actions, etc. then when I checked what he meant (giving it back to him) is when he kept butting back in and defending what I was giving back to him.

So I retried again re-stating what I had heard him say, and so on & so forth.

It was at some point along there that he gave me the 'the only reasons I lied about the phone calls to Scott about the tickets was to see what you would do when you found out about them".

I had asked him Sunday, if he had seen Scott about the tickets to a band that is playing nearby this week-end.
He included in his 'action' statement that:

You had asked if I had 'seen' scott on Sunday & i hadn't, I had "talked" to him on the phone.. so I really wasn't lying.. it was just answering the question exactly as you had asked it. It was just omission.

So I checked again: "So do I understand you to say that your lying was deliberate to see how I would react? and that you understood what I was asking when I asked about seeing scott for the tickets and you choose to omit that you had talked to him on the phone.

He said yes, and that's when I said I was not in this to play games and that's when I left.

Thanks for any insight. I'm nearing the end of my rope with this and we haven't even started 'dealing' with the really hot topic issues of the R.

Other things are OK. Getting S ready to head off for college, working with my foster dogs, and on things for school is keeping me busy.
I have not seen the other person back on since I had nudged you about him.. so you maybe be able to cross that one off your list of 'to-do's!

Peace
Bridge

[Distressed67]

IMHO you H has not woken up to the fact that he has contributed to the problems in your M. He sees you as walking away and does not understand that his actions and inactions have caused you to take this drastic action. He belives that you are the problem not him.

He is lashing out at you and not doing his homework because in his mind he is not the problem.

I understand what he is probably thinking because that is what I thought for a long time. It was my W fault we did not get along, she was moody, unhappy more than likely depressed. Until I realized how I had failed her and ignored not only her needs but my own that I saw how I contributed to our current situation. My anger was because of my inability to make myself happy, it was just easier to direct it at her than deal with believing that I was the problem.

I am not trying to excuse his actions, he is being immature but just trying to let you know what he is probably thinking.

Until he wakes up and sees that it took both of you to get to this point and stops blaming you for leaving him you will have many more MC sessions and interactions like yesterday.

JMO but again he sounds like where I was over a year ago. Hopefully a train hits him and he wakes up like I did.

Good luck.

[Bridgestone]

IMHO you H has not woken up to the fact that he has contributed to the problems in your M.

Funny thing is..
If you'd ask him why we separated (as the counselor did on Saturday) he'll tell you "Because I was verbally abusive" Now granted this is the only time I have heard him admit that to anyone but me. He can talk the talk.

He 'owns it' in his words, I'm just not seeing a change in new actions under conditions that he gets angry and frustrated and hurt.

He belives that you are the problem not him.

He has repeatedly made statements lately (hear sarcasm in this tone)... Oh sure, here we go again.. the ONLY problem in the room is "H's name". Like you are sooo perfect."

He is lashing out at you and not doing his homework because in his mind he is not the problem.

uh.. mmm... and here I thinking all along that it was because he didn't care enough about 'us' or me to do it.

JMO but again he sounds like where I was over a year ago. Hopefully a train hits him and he wakes up like I did.

This is a year after I have left. This is progress for us believe it or not. Well, maybe it's progress for me... I never would have had the guts to share my feelings & thoughts in the room, because of some of his changes, my increase in self-confidence, and having my own 'safe' place to retreat to when things go badly.

What was your 'train'?
thanks for keeping up & your perspective.

Bridge

[lodo]

I'm just going to throw something else out there ...

I don't think this is all "Bad H. Bad, bad H."

He clearly feels threatened and is trying but doesn't see how to make it to the other side. He probably feels like he comes under attack even though he's doing the best he can, which results in defensiveness and posturing.

He knows he's letting you slip away and he doesn't see how to hold on. He doesn't understand he needs to attract rather than pull.

Not saying this makes everything okay. Just something that probably should be acknowledged.

Hmmm - seems like this post is ripe for dog analogies.

lodo

[Distressed67]

Several things woke me up.

1) I told my W that I was going to give up anger for Lent in 07. She shot me the dirtyest look I ever saw from her. That started me thinking.

2) The ILYBNILWY speach on 6/17/07

3) Going to C by myself and starting to really control my anger.

Once I got that under control it was like a blind man being able to see. I saw all that I had done and did not due for her, myself and the M. Unfortunately she had checked out long ago and was talking to OM and I have been in the fight of my life since.

Don't know what to say about you H but he needs to realize how lucky he is that you are working so hard to save your M. I am doing all the work and not getting alot if feed back from her. She wont even go to MC so its a guessing game for me.

Keep doing what you are doing I hope he comes around.

[smartcookie]

Hi, just popping in. Your H frustrates the heck out of me. Have you ever wanted to say, "you can mince words like a 4 year old, or you can grow up & be a man, & work on our marriage!".

Hugs.

[Continuing]

Hi Bridgestone,

I've been reading a lot of your posts and I grealty appreciate what you say. I would love it if you could give me some insights regarding my sitch when you get a chance.

Thanks so much!
B

[Purple]

OH Bridge...I'm struggling to not slap your h upside the head.

My h would (and possibly still does) use the old 'I said I hadn't seen him, but I did talk to him on the phone' crap and then use that as telling the truth when he answered 'no' to your question of 'have you see him?'. It infurates the crap out of me. Cookie!!! What do you do when they do this??

I am reeeeal cranky with your h at the moment. Trying to think of what to say that is not just emotion.

((((BS)))))
How's about using the LRT on him?

[Bridgestone]

Hi all,
Thanks for your support. I am confused and struggling again today. I feel fractured, splintered, torn, and splattered.

Whenever I assert my thoughts and feelings of our situation he defends & denies them. It got ugly again last night and he said why should I listen to you, why should I be nice?? if you won't meet my LL (physical touch).

He chose to call at 4:30am to go through the talking wheel on that subject and then immediately wanted me to do it to on the same subject. When I said I couldn't, that I thought it was unfair to call up out of the blue like this esepcially when I was sleeping and ask for completeness in thoughts etc when I was half asleep I found incosiderate. Then I was called the b%4ch again for not caring enough to do this with him. ugg.

I don't think I can do this anymore. I want off this crazy ride.

[Forrest Gump]

"he had his nervous laugh, his toe scuffing the floor action, hands crossed behind his back. Something to the effect of

"I'm terrible at just listening" "I almost always jump in (or interrupt - can't remember he's exact word usage here) before she's done" "

2 things..

The nervous laugh, random actions, and the hands behind the back.

Clear sign that where he is.. is not "important". Now I used the "" cause I don't want you to apply the normal definition of the word. He feels that the things that he is being asked to do is not going to result in any thing other than what he has heard before. Liken it to a smart kid in school.. He/She knows the topic that is being taught.. and does not really need to pay attention.. that usually leads to some type of "distraction". I can almost guarantee that your husband does not have a communication problem. I think you implied he was a successful business owner. When you throw that in on top of how a man talks it can get really confusing.

The comment he made is just quite simply confirming what I am saying. He has taken the class and is learning nothing new. You are dealing with someone that has turned the switch off. The body is there.. the mind is thinking about.. football or something. Now.. what you have to understand here is the "teacher" (C) is not making the class exciting enough.. or doing something new that will get his attention. You confirmed it a bit with hoping to catch the C's eye to see if he agreed with you. Look the C should be looking for way's to make it fun and exciting for both of you. If he is agreeing with someone.. its time to find a new one. Or communicate to the C that maybe we need to try something different.

Just food for thought.

"He was on the mat talking & had worked his way around the wheel with his thoughts, emotions, actions, etc. then when I checked what he meant (giving it back to him) is when he kept butting back in and defending what I was giving back to him."

The idea behind the Mat Talking.. is to put a starting point and a stopping point to the conversation. It is not meant to be used as a podium. The key to its use is you have to know when to step off and when not to step on. Example.. he gets on mat and spouts off. Retain the most important point in the spouting.. just one point. You step on and address just that one point.. and step off.

I will be back.. work calls.