"It is an analogy of the rookie. I am a rookie db'r. The old timers are telling me what to do, and doing it the hard way. Rookie isn't going to listen. Rookie has to make his own name for himself. Rookie has to make his own mistakes. Rookie has to surprise the old timers. Rookie takes everything in, processes all advice, and then rookie explodes with greatness."
I am watching for the explosion.. and the greatness.. Still watching.... I can see something brewing..
"Yes I do think the texting at night was positive. Now she has shut off all communication. She has the children call me instead of speaking with me directly. She communicates through the children. She has pushed away everyone good in her life."
Alot of people other than Brandnewday have asked you to stop.. even a Mod did. Now after I pointed out that you did not respond to Brandnewday.. now you have stopped texting. I even said.. it is not having the effect you think it is.
"I think a lot of us on these boards need to stop talking about other people. We need to stop defending other people. You want to help someone and they give you some licks back, then you leave it between them. You shouldn't be arguing with other db'rs about the actions and advice others have given. You need to talk to the person of the thread, not to people on the thread."
I have talked directly to you. Trust me.. I don't need anyone to defend me.. I don't need to defend myself at all. You can attack me.. thats fine. You know the rules.. you know the boundaries. As long as you stay within them.. everything will be fine.. Kinda like Real Life huh.
"Forrest, Yes I have read all those things. I do believe I have implemented a lot of them."
Some of them yes. I still question whether you have implemented them correctly. I am still on the fence with that. Seriously.. I can see some work.. I want you to do better. I know you can.. you tell us how great you are all the time. Show us. I am waiting.
You are still pointing the finger. Look I am not pointing one at you. I am simply stating where you need to change. You can choose to.. or choose not to. It really is that simple. I don't have to point a finger at anyone.. you should have grasped a long time ago.. only you can make a difference. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone. This is not about me stroking my ego. Or being better than you. This is not a competition.. you win.. if you listen and apply everything that has been said. Yes.. it is that simple.
"I guess you put up with a lot for love."
I don't love you.. I do care about where you are going.. that's why I put up with it. I am telling you.. I would not wish this stuff on anyone. Not even you LostPhil.. I don't have to like you.. to help you. You don't have to like me.. to listen.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
OK, I am a little irritated right now, reading this thread and the rubbish posted here.
Please tell me what you guys are trying to do to this poor man!!!
Filling his head with BS and anxiety.
His wife is typical MLC/WAS.
Her actions are normal.
Yes she has issues, but read over on the MLC forum and she is no different then anyone else's Spouse.
She is not out screwing anyone, or introducing the kids to any OM.
She is not coming over drunk or on drugs
She is NOT abusing her kids, maybe a bit neglectful at times but definately not abusive.
The idea is not to punish her and some of the ideas you are putting into Phil's head are totally unneccesary and extreme and could be quite destructive.
FG, I understand that you are trying to be helpful but you nitpick everything to death. Perhaps condense things and learn how to use the quote button to make reading easier. I think some of your posts are meant to antagonize him.
Much of what Phil posts here are his thoughts, he vents, this is his journal, his thread.
I believe Phil is making changes, at his pace. He is self correcting things, he is recognizing things.
For many of us it took a long time to learn how to detach and how to handle our situations and the curve ball that was thrown.
Jack and Ian both did many things to help their situations, they are good Men to ask for help and guidance.
Be patient, be encouraging.
Sorry Phil, I know this is your thread, sorry if I stepped on some toes, but enough is enough.
BND I don't know what kaleidoscope you're looking through when you read this thread but I believe you are having a problem seeing this situation clearly.
Hand-holding and helping to blow up Phil's already self-inflated ego is not going to help him.
I disagree that Phil is making real changes because he hasn't yet shown the first sign that Phil actually thinks PHIL has done anything wrong. In fact, he has stated the she basically had it made in the shade; if you like living with an ass, that is.
The only thing Phil is doing is learning our language and using it to attempt to MANIPULATE his situation but what I see is him coming off even more arrogantly when he relates to his wife. He has missed the critical step of being flattened on his face in repentence and regret. There ain't no by-passing or side-stepping that one, though.
He is not changing internally and his actions prove that day after day after day.
With so many heavy hitters bowing out - and I do not include myself in that statement - I think you ought to ask yourself why you seem to be having a problem seeing the issues of Phil's sitch for what they so obviously are...pride, arrogance and immaturity on BOTH their parts.
Additionally, I disagree that his wife is "typical MLC/WAS". She is still communicating with him, does not exhibit the anger MLCers do and only seems to react justifiably when Phil is being an ass. Yes, she's a childish brat without a doubt and has a lot of hard lessons to learn but I believe her to be a product of her environment who is finally rebelling against living with an arrogant, condescending jackass. The woman is not MLC but even if she were, it would not change the fact that Phil ain't dealing with Phil because he thinks Phil's a pretty awesome guy just the way he is.
This post may very well result in me being banned and if so, peace out.
AmyC likes to hide behind excuses in my opinion. If she was MLC, then act like an MLC and go back home and lay down the law. Something is telling me she isn't ready to do it, she is still on her own journey. I haven't read her past sitch too much but from what people are saying it went to the depths of hell. She fought the devil and won. However the snares of hell keep trying to pull her back.
She doesn't speak with compassion either. I think a lot of people on these boards need to learn compassion.
You should really read a person's entire situation before offering advice that has been tried before with little to no good results.
: ) I agree with your compassion statement. Pretty ironic, yet true.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I agree completely with AmyC on this one. If she's banned for this post, moderators please ban me as well because I didn't have the guts to say exactly what she said. I believe completely that she hit the nail squarely on the head. And yes Phil, you can say, "Phoenix go away". This caught my eye and I couldn't help myself...I had to say bravo to Amy.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Amy, no I don't think what you said in banning material.
Again, here we go I have asked you to stop defending each other in dealing with me.
AmyC, I belive you are wrong. The wife is exhibiting non communication behaviors and is often times an angry bee's nest. The only time I have not seen the anger is when I have not asked her to do something. If I say don't come in the house, or create some kind of boundry all hell breaks loose. Now I'm not playing into those situations and she is just looking for any kind of bent grass to b|tch about. In my opinion it is some form of MLC. She wants botox. She is 105 lbs and thinks she is fat. She has no self esteem. She acts like a teenager and she dresses like one. Her life has become a reckless abandonement.
Also you have no clue of my repentness and self inflicted injury of myself. I hate myself. I wanted to die.
Jack you are right. I think Brand new Day is speaking my language.
Forrest, this is where you should have zipped it with me. "I don't love you.. I do care about where you are going.. that's why I put up with it. I am telling you.. I would not wish this stuff on anyone. Not even you LostPhil.. I don't have to like you.. to help you. You don't have to like me.. to listen." You don't love me? Man that really, really sux. I thought you were a Christian.
Phoenix you can agree with AmyC, but you didn't need to post it. I don't need your justification. You are arrogant, and willing to go down with someone else just to prove a point.
Jack, Look I hear you man. I am getting better. I am self reflecting. I know what the goal is... I'm having a better direction. Maybe I just don't get your humor, or your experienced remarks. Perhaps you think they are refined, but they are not. You may be an expert on the subject. You may know what you are doing. However if you can't explain it to me in terms I understand then what good is it. Would you rather be witty, or would rather be understood. I don't know maybe you have been doing this for too long and you have lost sight.
Look didn't you guys listen to anything I have wrote. Stop fighting against one another and defending one another on my thread. Go on a new thread and vent about LostPhil.
Look I want all of you to stay. Sheppard me. Become the true sheppards.
Lets recap. What works?
Being nice to her. Texting her in the evening. Answering the calls right away when I have the kids. Not reacting to her manic episodes. Showing her affection. Saying I love you, and her saying it back. What happened now that she doesn't communicate anymore. Because I wouldn't help her with the mattresses. Because I told her she is no longer my responsibility. I have let her go and I have told her that I have let her go. She is distancing herself more and more. The night before she left we were intimate but she said she still was going. She didn't want a divorce anymore. She just wanted to swallow the big girl pill.
Well, there have been so many different opinions about your stitch until it may have your head spinning and ready to spew green pea soup! I try to respect anyone's belief or regious platform where marriage and divorce is concerned, and therefore you would need to certainly follow your Church's teaching on that issue. If you feel that trying to get full custody would end up being more harmful to your children and causing even more destruction in the long run, then don't do it just b/c I or anyone else may suggest that. You know your wife, the children, and your stitch better than anyone else. All we can go by is what we think we see in your writings.
I wished I knew what to tell you, but to be honest, I just don't know what is best. As I said before, I personally do not believe she is the "typical" WAW or do I think she is necessarily in MCL. I am very concerned about her family traits and the possibility that she could have inherited those things. I certainly believe she was affected her by her mother's fear factors. I believe that is why she has so many fears of her own right now and that they work on her imagination. I pray it won't affect the children (especially the youngest), but it probably will.
Anyway, that is why I think a professional is the one you need to see for advice. You could keep going round and round with everyone here on the board and still not get anywhere near where you need to be. I'm not telling you to stop posting, if that is what you want to do and if you do feel that someone here is helping you, but I do plead with you to find a professional to advise you in what you need to do about your stitch.
You are correct in saying that you cannot control your wife, so you could not force her to see a professional....but you can get advice there. Just be sure you get a very good one and don't just pick one out from the yellow pages and find out all they have is a document on the wall that says "counselor" on it. They aren't worth a pinch of salt and the first thing most of them would tell you is to get a divorce and go find happiness for yourself in whatever manner made YOU happy.
I do believe in Michelle's DB principles. And, she would tell you that you need to do what works. If something does not work....it is a cheesless tunnel. So, do what works for your family.
Peace be with you.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Stop talking through me, like I'm not here. Talk to me, not to your board buddies. They all know they are your buddy, and they are ready to go down with the ship with you. You are talking to BND in a condescending tone and trying to give me answers. Talk to me.
Phoenix- What are you doing the high five dance. Oh I zigged the moderator to make lostPhil feel even worse.
Jack, where are these champion threads of detachment? I still can't find them in MLC archives.
Everyone please go pray for my family. Pray on the prayer circle, and use prayers.
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
What is courage? The ability to face one fears with no fear itself regardless of the outcome.
