Thank you for all the kudos, I'm glad I could help.
Great advice from Bworl and Racefan.
One more question about how things started, just to get clearer:
"We went out to TGI Fridays(hate that place now!!) because we were not talking"
What were you not talking about?
To what Bworl and Jonzy are referring, becoming a friend, that's what we started out doing, as Jonzy asked her to a movie. Things seemed to be heading that way until:
1. he came over to find out she had not slept home 2.but at a strange man's house with some of her girl friends 3. condoms fell out of her bag 4. she announced she was going to file the papers
From there, we've been going dark. The messages from thereon have been very mixed.
1. she asks for his help fixing things 2. she asks for physical touch 3. she asks him to stay for dinner 4. to go eat pizza with her and her relatives who are in town
1. she becomes furious when he politely declines 2. she threatens divorce when he politely declines (which, btw is the reason I think this last time, Jonzy said the excuse about having to go to work instead of just saying no, to avoid her wrath) 3. she tells him that she has met with a lawyer and is preparing papers. 4. the previous stuff about spending the night out
This is kind of a curveball; how does he continue on the path of friendship with someone who will treat him this way when he politely declines?
I am thinking, Jonzy, maybe the best thing to do, is to calmly ask in your own words something like,
1. "I'm not understanding, why did you ask me to dinner with your relatives if you are meeting with a lawyer and preparing divorce papers to serve me?"
You need to be in a calm place so that if her emotions are volatile you can remain calm and detached, kind of like when a little child is upset, you don't get upset right? You just calmly explain how things are or calmly ask them a question.
Listen to her answer and respond from her answer. If it is appropriate, something else you can possibly say is:
2. "I thought from your acceptance of my offer of a date next week, we were starting over. But then you told me you saw a lawyer and were preparing the divorce papers, so I figured you changed your mind. But now I'm being invited to dinner with you and your relatives; help me understand why?"
If she is honest and talks about her going back and forth feelings, then maybe you can get somewhere.
But if she says something like, oh I just thought we can still be friends and there's no reason we can't rub each other's backs/invite each other to see the relatives, etc. then say
3. "OK that is fine, we can just be friends. I just have one more question: why when you invited me to stay for dinner the other day and I politely declined you became angry and announced that you will be preparing the divorce papers?"
I would listen very carefully to this answer.
Remember just stay calm and you have every right to politely say you have to go and do not let her emotions or threats rattle you, at least in front of her.
Being her friend does not mean asking her out on a date.
At least not yet.
Think about it, and maybe you're different than I was, but asking out on a date only happened after some friendly groundwork had been laid.
You need to try to get inside her mind and understand where it is that she is coming from. If she wants her heart to be won all over again, you're at square one.
At this point, I'd let her do the asking.
Being a friend means that you are available if she calls. If she asks for help, you provide it. If she initiates a conversation, you participate.
Her agreeing to a date unfortunately did NOT mean you were starting over. What you have to remember here is, if she didn't say it directly you can't assume it. No assumptions and no expectations. Anything else will frustrate and disappoint you.
If she doesn't call, don't call her. Don't talk about the relationship, either about YOUR expectations or HERS. In her mind the past is now a bad thing, regardless of whether it really was or not. And telling her you want your marriage back could possibly be a frightening thing to her, because SHE DOES NOT! She might be convinced to take on a "new" marriage where the two of you have made changes, but she has no interest in what you had before.
Don't overcomplicate this. And whatever you do, this is NOT a time to indulge your need for validation, approval, or love. You're on the outs, whether you deserve it or not.
Read this letter. I think it explains better what I'm trying to suggest to you Jonzy.
I think what I am going to do for a while is just kind of go dark. If she needs help with anything I will make her work for it meaning I will get to it when I want to not when she does. I will no longer initiate any sort of contact except for the brief contact we have when I pick up my son. Does this make any sense? Or any suggestions on any tweaks you would make to this theory?
Yes I think this makes sense. She needs to be "trained" (if you will) to treat you nicely even when you say no in a nice way, as you have.
I think you need to pull back so that she starts appreciating when you do say yes by handling no's more gracefully.
I'm going away for a few days so hopefully Bworl and/or Racefan will be around. If you find you need feedback, re-read our posts and/or start a new thread.
You are doing FANTASTIC! You are thinking of the big picture and long-run, and you are working from the present.
Did you read the letter? If so, what did you think of it?
It sounds to me like your plan is to have HER pursue YOU.
I'll grant you that some situations seem made for that kind of approach, but I'm not so sure that yours does.
Tell me if my take on what happened between the two of you rings true or false. Maybe my gut is reading this wrong.
Things were good at the beginning. As the years went by, and another child came along, then school and work crept in, next thing you know, Mr. and Mrs. Jonzy aren't much of a couple any more.
They get in the habit of kind of doing their own thing. Mrs. Jonzy has the kids every night while Mr. Jonzy is working. Between school and work, Jonzy doesn't get to pay the Mrs. much attention.
The spark begins to fade. There are arguments, supposedly about something tangible, but really about the distance that is slowly growing between the two of you. No one ever really acknowledges that a real problem is beginning to unfold between the two of you in terms of your marriage relationship. Without realizing it, everyone is getting your time except each other.
Mrs. Jonzy begins to wonder what happened to the dream of happily ever after. As a typical man (just like me) Jonzy figures we have a home, we have enough money, we have the kids, we get along ok, what's the problem?
Next thing you know we're at Friday's and Mrs. Jonzy has finally reached the point where she willing to say that she doesn't want what the two of you have anymore.
Is that anywhere close Jonzy?
Let me know. Honestly, if I'm way off base, that's fine. But it does affect my advice to you. Because right now, I think your plan is not really a good one.
Let me know.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
You pretty much hit the nail on the head bworl! As time went on we really never had a whole lot of time with each other. She began to go out with her friends alot and thinking I would be the good husband I thought let her go with her friends for time away, not realizing we barely spent any time together the way it was.
Oops hit the wrong button:) I was going to say also as time went on she began working more and more and also picked up playing volleyball every tues, thurs, and saturdays! I thought that is great she is working out. But in the end it was because we were slowly drifting apart.
