"I had her vaccum and she wanted me to bring it over. She also asked if I would stop and get her some milk for her as well. So I did and went to dro it off for her."
OK...does that sound like going dark to you?
"She asked me if I would like to have some of her steak and I just simply said no thanks."
Very good! Proud of you!
"she instantly got ticked off. She became very upset and told me I would get the papers in the mail. She also aid that my attention span was about 5 seconds long and I am still trying to figure that one out."
OK, I"ll tell you what this is about. She is trying to pull her leverage. See she's OK with leaving you and then asking you to rub her back and get her milk.
You showed her that you have self-respect and that you are busy and OK without her. She is getting angry and threatening with divorce to try and rattle you to get you to be scared of losing her and therefore do anything for her (like stay whenever she says)
What you need to do is just keep doing what you're doing. Don't let her scare you into doing stuff for her with her threats.
Think about it. Does it sound at all remotely appropriate for someone to invite someone for dinner on the spot, and when they say thanks but I have other plans already, that they get angry at them and threaten them with something?
You've got to put it into that context to see it as anyone else would have seen that scenario.
I really don't think she will send the papers. Just don't chase her; you did NOTHING wrong. If you go dark and don't contact you, I bet she will realize from the silence that it was pretty irrational what she did, and she will call you, just like she did last time she threatened the papers.
"She called me up to come over and fix her garbage disposal which was not working. Since I was still in the area I went over and fixed it."
OK I don't care if you happened to be next door at a BBQ, stop doing things for her.
Really, continue going dark. Don't you see how back and forth she is?
If you are going to send papers to your spouse, you don't ask them to rub your back...you don't invite them for dinner...heck, you don't get angry and threaten them when they politely decline.
I really don't expect to see the papers. At this point, don't answer or return her calls.
And the next time she asks you to come over and hold her, or bring her something or fix something, etc. Just say no.
Say you are either in or out. You know I wanted and am willing to work on the marriage, but you clearly don't. I'm not going to give you back-rubs and come over to help you out, or allow you to fix my computer. We are either committed to working on the marriage, or we are not. I'm not playing this game anymore.
Hi one more thought before I sign off for the night...
Just buy her announcing that she's getting the papers done everytime she gets angry shows that she knows that her behavior is saying that maybe there is a chance she won't.
Otherwise why would she have to announce it if it's a done deal?
I am not totally sure that she is getting the papers but I will assume that she has since she wanted to come agreements on custody and the such. If this is the case how do I respond? I slipped up and told her that the divorce is not the answer to our problems and no matter how bad the relationship is it can be fixed, don't know if I should have said that. As I was leaving this is the first time I have seen her show any emotion as she started to cry and gave me a hug.
I called her in the evening to make sure she was doing ok and asked if this is really what she wants and her response to that was I think so. Hopefully I am sensing some doubt in her and that maybe she doesn't want to get the divorce, but I am not going to get my hopes up.
How do I act if she is pursuing the D? Do I try to convince her that it is not the right thing to do or what? Sure wish my books would get here, which I ordered a month ago!!
Jonzy, man slow down and breathe. It will be okay one way or the other. Tink has been giving you great advice, listen she is making sense. You have to quit assuming things and trying to read her mind. You like most of us men are fixers it's in our nature, but you can't fix it this has been the hardest thing for me also to learn it's a rollercoaster. With a WAS you believe almost nothing they say and 50% of their actions, as we all know actions speak louder than words.
Like Tink said go dark if it will help you detach and get yourself into a better space right now as most WAS do she is baiting you and you are biting. Quit being so available this was a hard one for me also cause again we are fixers. IMO you are still persuing her by asking her if this is still what she wants.
How do you act? "act as if", let this stuff roll of your ducks back. I'm not trying to be a jerk as I am still learning also but you are at a point to watch and wait. Detach detach if she goes to a lawyer there is nothing you can do about it, if she files there is nothing you can do about that either except validate her and listen, say something like I understand you want a divorce, though it's not what I want I won't stop you and leave it at that just cause she wants it doesn't mean you have to help her, walk away from it if you will let the conversation go at that.
If she has spoken to a lawyer, there is nothing wrong with you getting legal advice also, you have to cover yourself in this not too be mean to her but just to know where you stand, with things and what is expected of you for your son. Agree to nothing that you feel compromises yourself or your son ask a lawyer please get this knowledge.
Keep working on yourself and making the changes for you to become the man/person that you want to be, take each day as it comes get out and do things take care of your son. She has to do this on her own it's tough bro we are all learning, read the books they help set goals for yourself find an inner peace.
Don't take what I have said as being a jerk, I did not mean it to be that way, read other post learn from the wiser people on these boards and then apply what you can to your sitch and and continue with what changes you need to make.
I appreciate the reply racefan, and you did not come off as a jerk. I just want to get as much input as I can to apply to my sitch. And I do admit I need to do a better job of going dark and make myself more unavailable to her. Although I did alright today since she has relatives in town, she asked me to come eat pizza with them. And I politely told her that I did not want to because I have to go get ready for work.
Today has been one of those days where I just sit here and cry while I try to do my homework. When I dropped my son off to her we talked for a second and I got teary eyed when we were talking. I told her I had to go and she says don't be sad and I am sorry. When I got in the car I drove off and just broke down so bad that I had to pull over. I am such a wreck but going to work out for an hour before I go to work.
Hi I am wondering what her reason is for moving out and for getting the D?
Forgive me if you told me already, what is it that was her reason? Were you fighting a lot? What had been happening the months before her announcement, and how did she go about telling you?
I see a woman who married young, has two children, a husband in school and working at night. I see a woman who began to wonder if this was how it was always going to be. I see a woman who felt like the romance was gone, that her husband had begun settling into the security of the marriage always being there. And I think eventually she decided that she didn't want things to stay that way.
You said yourself in one of your earlier posts that you realize NOW that her nagging was not nagging, but instead a plea to you that things needed to change.
I'm not sure what the living arrangements are. Do you own a house? Who lives in what was your house together? Who has the kids overnight? What arrangements do you have for seeing the kids if you're not currently the custodial parent?
One additional question, not important, just curious. You have a 15 year old daughter, yet your signature block says you've been together for only 12 years?
Anyway, on to my take.
I think Tink perhaps hit the nail on the head early on when she suggested that your wife really wants you to win her back. I think she wants courted again. And maybe that's too specific, because she may not be sure right now that she wants YOU to court her, but I do think that she wants to be romanced again by someone.
The condoms bother me and cause me to wonder if she's considering pursuing others. Though I should mention that one of the worst things you can do for the two of you right now is to accuse her of something that you have no solid proof for. THAT one didn't win you any points.
I'm not really sure about the going dark approach. Let me say that IF, and I repeat IF, she IS involving herself with other men, then I absolutely think going dark is the correct route.
If you don't know that for sure, I might be inclined to take a different approach.
Is it possible for YOU to take on the role of friend?
Can you think back to when the two of you met for the first time. At some point there was chemistry, yes. But before that, there was friendship. I think maybe THAT is the place to start.
Seems to me that when you become aloof and hurry away that this bothers her. To me that supports the notion that she wants you to WANT her. To be with her. To help her. To do things with her. To accept her help.
Divorce busting is a bit of a misnomer if you've read either of the books. While the techniques in the book are designed to improve interactions between you and your spouse, much of the philosophy behind the books is centered on YOU taking stock of you. It involves you identifying how YOU have changed, for the worse, and taking steps to fix those things. Remember your observation that her "nagging" was an effort to get you to change? Take that revelation and begin making those changes.
Don't be frightened by the divorce talk. It's quite common in these situations for the walk away spouse to threaten divorce action anytime they are angry with you. Give it a day or two and it will usually blow over. In the meantime, focus on yourself, continue working on YOUR issues, and be open to opportunities to show your unconditional love to her.
Don't tell her you love her. Don't tell her how much you want the marriage to work. Don't tell her how much she means to you.
SHOW HER all these things through your actions.
Remember, they speak much louder than words.
This is doable. This relationship can be saved. You have to focus and not allow yourself to be rattled in her presence. You have to control yourself and not collapse into a weeping mess. You have to believe that the two of you belong together.
Unconditional love is love that we SHOW through our actions, not caring WHAT we receive in return. If she's really searching and angry right now, chances are that many of your attempts at love and kindness will NOT get the positive result you hope for. It's very important to tell yourself over and over again that your unconditional love for this woman comes with NO EXPECTATIONS.
There's always the fear of being a doormat, but I don't see that being a problem just yet. You can deal with that later if it becomes an issue.
Just my thoughts Jonzy. Sorry more people haven't been by to help. Thank goodness for Tink, eh?
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
jonzy good for you keep your answers simple and civil nothing more than that it's okay to turn down some invitations, but try and be a little more evasive with your answer try just saying no thanks I have plans already, let the WAS wonder some not to be mean to them but to show alittle mystery or intrigue.
You have to be strong man I know it's tough not to well up when you are hurting we all have a hard time with it, but you can't show that side of yourself to her, if you can't do it for yourself do it for your kids wait until you get in the car or go outside go anywhere just don't do it in front of W. Ask yourself would you want to be around someone who is tearing up all the time? I think you would answer no, be the man she fell in love with show her what she is missing ya feel what I'm saying?
It's a tough road and a H**LL of a rollercoaster ride. You have chosen to honor your vows and comittment to your marriage you have told her this don't tell her again she knows, now work on you make the changes you need to make to be better than you were. In the end however it may workout you will be better person for your W or heaven forbid someone else.
Noone is here to beat you up or put you down, the whole key is that YOU are the one right now that wants to save this marriage I give you kudos on that and so it has to be up to you to make the changes right now. You can do it you sound like a good man and father. Your kids need you the most right now and that too should be your focus, as I said before your W has to walk this path right now and we all hope in the end they come out of the fog and then help in rebuilding a new and better marriage.
Read the books when you get them and then reread them, don't tell W you have them they are for you and you only!!! They are a game plan for you to map out your course and to set your goals. As hard as it is try and not dwell on your sitch it will only drain you from your course of action. Work on your PMA go out with friends, do things with your kids, GAL it all helps to stay solution focused.
I know this all seems out of kilter, to do something totally opposite of what you think, but when you persue, beg, cry that only drives the WAS further away and gives them justification for what they are doing, think about it did doing all that stuff help? We all do it to a point but once you get a handle on detaching with love it comes easier, let what they say roll off your ducks back, they are just words yet I know they still hurt the same.
You may want to post over in Newcomers, there is alot more activity and might get some more feedback there.
Keep up the good work you are doing, you can do it be strong, vent here on these boards read and learn there are alot of people here that can help, you are in a good place.
Well lets start this off by answering tink. I moved out of the house and she stayed with the kids. Basically I was given the choice of I move out or she does. Well with the house payment and utilities there was no way I could afford that working part time. Also I did not want to uproot the kids because they love the house and the area. As for the reasoning behind all this is because I became so distant in the relationship and as bworl stated I became secure that the marriage would always be there. I became lazy and would procrastinate alot on things around the house and would wait on the bills.
As for the fighting bit, we really never fought alot. We would have our arguments here and there but never really worked them out. If it was something major and we hurt each other verbally we would say our sorries and then sweep it under the rug. And the way she told me that she wanted the D was in the car ride home from seeing my friend. She asked if I wanted a divorce and to which I replied no of course and then nothing was said again until that friday. We went out to TGI Fridays(hate that place now!!) because we were not talking and you could cut the tension between us with a knife. She then told me that she wanted a divorce.
Now to bworl my wife keeps the kid at nights. Me working nights was only because it worked with my school schedule and when I started school my son was not yet in Kindergarden so I was a stay home dad, went to school in the evenings, and then work at nights. I graduate in February so I don't have much longer.
As for me having a 15D she is actually my step-daughter from my wifes previous marriage but I consider her mine since I have been around her since she was 2.
As for going dark I kind of want to but in the same manner I want to be her friend. That is what I want to do right now is start over with a friendship and work from there. But I dont want to seem pushy or smother her, I want to ask her to maybe do a movie, as friends, and then maybe go from there. Any thoughts as how I should approach this?
And for the whole cheating part I think that was me just being paranoid(I hope) because she pleaded with me that she would never do that. My wife is a horrible liar and %99 of the time when she is lying she becomes really defensive and will not make eye contact. This time she told me to look in her eyes and she calmly told me there was no one else.
Racefan you are absolutely right that it is a heck of a rollercoaster. And my goal here is to become the person she fell in love with 12 years ago. I know I can do it and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get there because I am not happy at all with the person I have become. I already see some changes happening in the way my attitude is coming along and I have to take it one change at a time because my list is long and I add to it daily it seems.
Thank you very much for being here. You guys are the best and it really helps me "talking" on here and learning from all of you. Now I wish they would finally send my books, it has been a month and they shipped out on the 12th...hmmmm. And as always tink TY for being my lifeline!!!
