WAW...now the LBS Part 2

[Jay Scott]

You are so right HiC, ever since I started the 180ing and not making any contact I have not heard the D word again. It has been over a month since she has said anything about it. I gave her the space she said she wanted, GAL, and act as if (maybe to much) and I never here anything about the D or relationship. She really tries to be friendly and act like nothing happened. I am not going for that either but at least the D talk stopped.

My H still tells others that we are divorced or in the process of, but the important thing is that he hasn't filed or said the words and it has been 7months. I have changed everything that he has complained about so he has no cause to be mad at me or want the D.

I have a question for you. I know that you are angry with your wife now, and if my question is too personal I don't expect an answer, but do you feel as if you have lost love for her. My husband says he no longer loves me and I don't know how I can build that connection again if he will not allow himself to feel that way again. Any ideas?

Too personal...on this board..are you kidding? LOL, I will try to answer your question as best I can HIC. Now please know that the dynamics of my situation are very different from most here because of the children and I am dealing with a WAW that left her kids. I am not trying to beat a dead horse but I think my situation is different from your husbands in this way. If you hurt me...it will be hard but I can forgive and and deal with the pain. I don't know that it would be any less hard for me to trust her if there were no kids involved but I think the situation would be less clouded. Ok, OK... to the heart of your question. I may not have lost all the love for my wife but I won't allow myself to even consider it at this point. I truly do not care what she does or even if she ever comes back. In some ways I wish she would just disappear from our lives forever.

With that said, I think I told this to Christa....if... IF my wife came back to me and said all the things that you have said to your H...the walls would come down a bit but to me there is one thing that she could do to make me believe her. All throughout our marriage I have been the affectionate one, I have longed and yearned for her to initiate affection or intimacy and she never has. In ten years my wife has never walked up behind me and hugged me and kissed me on the neck or said I love you independent of me saying first. Alot of this is her culture, but when she said I don't love you and I never have...I believed her because I had nothing else to draw any other conclusions from.

If my wife changed in that way...I may start to believe and open my heart. DO you see why I am so negative about having any hope for my marriage. I have been giving and making excuses for her lack of affection for a decade. I got burned by that..I don't see any or many reasons to believe that short of a miracle from God himself that my marriage has any hope.

To you I say this, if there is something that your husband has always felt he missed, and you know what it is, could you provide that for him. IS there something deep that you know about that he needs from you aside from all the smoke and mirrors of this silly cat and mouse stuff we are trying LOL....not meant to offend (it is the reality if relationships I know).

I hope this helps HIC, I would like to see all of the WAW's that desire to heal their M's succeed because I wish my wife were one of you. I admire your strength and courage to desperately get your H's back. I would like to have that kind of value to my wife. I am happy to give any of you any info I can to help you achieve your goal.

Happy Sunday folks.

Sorry for the book.

[HOPEFULinCALI]

Too personal...on this board..are you kidding? LOL, I will try to answer your question as best I can HIC.

All throughout our marriage I have been the affectionate one, I have longed and yearned for her to initiate affection or intimacy and she never has. In ten years my wife has never walked up behind me and hugged me and kissed me on the neck or said I love you independent of me saying first.

If my wife changed in that way...I may start to believe and open my heart. DO you see why I am so negative about having any hope for my marriage.

To you I say this, if there is something that your husband has always felt he missed, and you know what it is, could you provide that for him.

I hope this helps HIC.

Okay Okay you're right. Too personal? Maybe not on this board.

I understand how lack of affection can make one feel in their marriage (my H and I have different sex drive which made me feel worthless and unwanted as a wife). My husband and I have always been affectionate although I am not comfortable with public affection which has always bothered him.

He also feels as if I don't have confidence in him and I am too critical of him. I have been trying very hard with my 180 to show him how proud and confident of him I truly am. Up until late I have always been proud to call him my H. And even with his recent change in behavior I continue to defend him to friends and family. As far as the affection he won't let me get near him. He just doesn't feel a connection to me. I feel like I am trying to chip away at a wall with a plastic spork at this point.

You have given me something to think about. Thank you so much for taking the time to write me back. All the best.

[HOPEFULinCALI]

I haven't spoken with my H since Friday.

H is expecting me to pay half on a major pool cleaning. At first I agreed but now I am rethinking my position. Since he is inviting strangers over every few months (another friend is coming in April -a girl no doubt- and two others in June after visits this past September 07 and February 08) and he treats the house as if it is own (I am not allowed to come over without his permission and I have to ask if I want to use anything) I don't see why I should contribute to a house I have no priviledges to.

He is also expecting me to watch the house and take care of the bills anytime he leaves the house for an extended period of time. He is planning a trip in May, which he has yet to tell me about, to visit yet another girl. I am sure he expects me to watch the house then and again this summer when he goes overseas and again when he goes to the CHP academy for SIX months. I don't know why he expects all this of me if he wants a D. I want to do what is right for my marriage, but at what point am I just being taken advantage of and he never has any intention of coming back.

Don't get me wrong I am still fighting for my marriage and maintaining a PMA, but he is really outdoing himself. I treated him and our marriage w/ respect during our first sep. I never went out and acted as if my marriage was already over, but he is clearly making every effort to disrespect the fact that we are still married. Why not file papers and do it with a clear conscience? Why stall on filing the papers, but continue to move on w/ your life?

[jmw128]

Thought I'd let you know HiC, my approach with WAW regarding schedule seems to have worked at least temporarily. I sent her that text saying, "working now. What days do you need to swap?" and tried to call about 4-5 hours later and got her VM, leaving no message. So, that was my effort. It's on her plate. Kind of like D stuff, my stuff or whatever. When I picked-up 5D, to make a long story short, because details in journal, it went well. I stayed as brief as possible using "as if" while there. Nice, friendly, pleasant interaction, WAW mentioned a few 5D things, but no schedule or other negative stuff. In fact, when I left and said, "have a great day" she responded "u2" with a bit of the "sweetness" in her voice that I just love.

I know that you are angry with your wife now, and if my question is too personal I don't expect an answer, but do you feel as if you have lost love for her. My husband says he no longer loves me and I don't know how I can build that connection again if he will not allow himself to feel that way again.

Hope you don't mind me chiming in but this is the way I felt. When my WAW was brutally angry with me months ago, I still loved her unconditionally, just an awful pain and depression that lasted too long. My 180's kind of healed me, GAL just fills the day. Lately with less contact and especially with schedule junk, I feel oddly more detached, I've done many 180's in my life and do not feel like the same person anymore. Like a new found clarity. Doesn't change my feelings, one bit. More strength, confidence, and perhaps a speck of wisdom to...I guess you could say my feelings never changed. Something that may contribute, is that I did put an excessive amount of blame on myself. Plenty of 180's there...lol

Having said all of that, which probably doesn't help, I find it a bit odd that you ask this question. When I first read the post, I thought someone was asking you this HiC. I would examine how you felt early on as the WA and then as you progressed to feel as you do now as the LBS. I imagine it depends on the person. I find it hard to understand/believe that the WA just loses all feeling entirely, despite what they say...more just really hurt, lost, confused, or just want something different. But that's me.

Saw your comment about my sitch on my dedicated thread...thx.

[HOPEFULinCALI]

jmw,

Thought I'd let you know HiC, my approach with WAW regarding schedule seems to have worked at least temporarily. I sent her that text saying, "working now. What days do you need to swap?" and tried to call about 4-5 hours later and got her VM, leaving no message. So, that was my effort. It's on her plate. Kind of like D stuff, my stuff or whatever. When I picked-up 5D, to make a long story short, because details in journal, it went well. I stayed as brief as possible using "as if" while there. Nice, friendly, pleasant interaction, WAW mentioned a few 5D things, but no schedule or other negative stuff. In fact, when I left and said, "have a great day" she responded "u2" with a bit of the "sweetness" in her voice that I just love.

I hope you saw my note to you. I thought you handled yourself great and are always finding ways to change what doesn't work and keep doing what does.

Hope you don't mind me chiming in but this is the way I felt...Having said all of that, which probably doesn't help...

Of course I don't mind. I need all the advice I can get. All of your advice following WAS very helpful. It is always nice to have an understanding of what works for others to get through this tough time.

I find it a bit odd that you ask this question. When I first read the post, I thought someone was asking you this HiC. I would examine how you felt early on as the WA and then as you progressed to feel as you do now as the LBS. I imagine it depends on the person. I find it hard to understand/believe that the WA just loses all feeling entirely, despite what they say...more just really hurt, lost, confused, or just want something different. But that's me.

I truly feel my H is in still there somewhere in that monster and that he still loves me, but he is hidden behind an angry, bitter and resentful man. As the WAW I wanted my husband to make changes and really invest in building a connection with me. I wanted him to fight for me and he did fight for me but not in the way I needed him to. We didn't solve either of our faults or rebuild a connection. It especially didn't show his commitment when he went overseas for another one month trip without me. With that being said he doesn't seem to want me to fight for him. In the months past when I have tried getting closer to him emotionally or physically he has gotten angry with me.

At this point I suppose all I can do is work on the friendship and hope that by some miracle he becomes attracted to me again.

Thanks as always for your advice and support.

[Gypsy]

Hey Lady..

Thanks for all you've done for me.. *hugs*

I don't see why I should contribute to a house I have no priviledges to.

Now that is one beautiful notion. Good for you! That thinking may jar his bubble.

Have you ever considered dropping your preceptions of what you did when you walked away? How is walking the blame game helping your personal growth.

Your walking away is in the past. It contributed to where you are today, but it's not the sole cause. The problems your marriage is having started well before you left (and courageously returned). Your actions and your husband's are just the symptoms.

Although it's neat to be a resource to others about a WAS, consider your needs first. You're reliving what happened while trying to deal with your husband's departure. How can you focus on what you need to do while you're being split in two? How is the sense of guilt a positive tool to help you with your current situation.

Now is your time for you.. not the past, not educating others at the price of your own well being, not putting yourself on a cross. Give yourself HOPE, give to you.

You are far too beautiful to be lost.

*hugs*

[HOPEFULinCALI]

Have you ever considered dropping your preceptions of what you did when you walked away? How is walking the blame game helping your personal growth?

Gypsy,

Your words really tugged at my heart strings. Your words of encouragement and advice meant so much to me and as always are though provoking. It also makes it difficult to do for me although I am finding ways of getting on with life. I am certainly better than several months ago. Life continues to go on without him.

I admit I have some control issues which is why it is difficult at times not to get wrapped up in what he is doing and what I did. I have detached quite a bit b/c I saw myself getting lost in the sitch, but I fear letting go completely b/c then I may forget my focus on DBing (of course my main focus should be me). Forgetting and forgiving is my goal. Without this, you are right, I am not growing as much as I could.

I am beginning to see a new therapist on April 7th who practices the same therapy as Michele so I am very excited to see someone who can help me continue the positive changes and make even more. I think a large part of my frustration also comes from having a therapist who isn't helping me to progress.

How can you focus on what you need to do while you're being split in two? How is the sense of guilt a positive tool to help you with your current situation?

My focus it to continue to offer my friendship, but living a life of my own as well. It is all for me, but I won't lie I know that an independent, fun, funny, easier going woman is what is more attractive to him. As for the guilt I suppose my guilt is helping me to never take for granted that he knows how much I care about him and our marriage. It most definitely provides the motivation to keep going without giving up when I yet again get weary.

What do you think about taking myself off our joint phone plan? We have sep. checking and savings accounts, but we each have access to the others. Should I take myself off the car insurance too? Too much?

Hugs

[jaw3149]

HiC -

There's no way you should pay for part of the pool cleaning if you aren't even living there.

My WAW wants off our joint phone plan too; but I see that as a reason to hide who she is talking to. I just let her put it in her own name and that way I can't see any of it. Ignorance is bliss. I see all the steps of taking yourself off the joint payments as further separating. As the LBS, I don't like it when my wife does that; but she is doing what she wants and I am not stopping her.

I would refrain from disconnecting more; but I would really focus on yourself and GAL! I just keep envisioning myself getting back together and acting "as if". In the meantime, I concentrate on doing things for me and my children. I am not saying it is easy; but I just put one foot in front of the other.

I wish you the best HiC. Be patient.

[jmw128]

I wanted my husband to make changes...I wanted him to fight for me...but not in the way I needed him to.

that's just frustrates me. That could be or may have been my WAW now or in the past. Not a mind reader. I was extremely clueless as to what was going through her mind. Same now I suppose...

What do you think about taking myself off our joint phone plan? We have sep. checking and savings accounts, but we each have access to the others. Should I take myself off the car insurance too? Too much?

what is your motivation for doing that? Is this just to show him something? Are you getting frustrated or growing impatient? When I have similar thoughts, I ask myself questions like...How does this help you? Is it even going to effect them? Will they even care?

In my case, WAW immediately opened different checking so I did the same. Then opened I opened one more convenient to my house. So, I have excessive accounts...we don't have access, etc...this also when she was angry, hateful, etc. Phone split during this time also. She sold then bought a different car and got new insurance policy. So, I wouldn't be on that policy. In my state, I cannot take my WAW off my car insurance w/o canceling or D paper final, and I have no intention of that...I asked my agent. However, once again, this would help me zero. Separated and on the vehicle that only I drive...I just cannot see how that helps me. She would never even know I did it...

just thoughts, again...

gl2u..

[HOPEFULinCALI]

jaw and jmw,

Thank you so much for your input. Here's the thing. I am trying to DB, but I have my mother, a friend of my mothers (a lawyer), my current therapist and a therapist who I saw three times all telling me move back in the house, ask him about the D, to protect myself by sep. all accounts, and file for legal sep. My only motivation is to protect myself. Sometimes I don't know what is right. There are so many sitch's that arise in which it is difficult to know how to apply DB, but that is why it is great to be able to bounce ideas off of you guys.

I can't tell you how grateful I am to have your advice. I see how these actions may be looked upon negatively by an observing spouse.

I wanted my husband to make changes...I wanted him to fight for me...but not in the way I needed him to.

that's just frustrates me. That could be or may have been my WAW now or in the past. Not a mind reader. I was extremely clueless as to what was going through her mind. Same now I suppose...

Don't be frustrated at all. You are doing exactly the right thing. My H meant well. He listened to all the advice of the therapist, did all the homework, read all the books but we had a very bad therapist. He NEVER took into account my feelings or the things I was asking to change about him and about us. It was in one ear and out the other. He would put words in my mouth and tell me how I was feeling and he wouldn't change a thing about him. Had my H invested as you are I am confident that I would have been back in a heartbeat, but he didn't know what he didn't know. I don't hold any grudges that he didn't try harder. I was just as responsible for making things work.