Letter from WAW after she flew to my city for talk

[gratefulweb]

GH31...

I can see how talking to her while you are this mad could cause a backslide. Be very careful. One small crack in the dam could cause a huge out burst from you. Perhaps you could avoid the call until you are calmed down more so?

[GH31]

Mr. Gratefulweb & Just_Me,

Thanks to both of you for listening to my ventings and vitriol. I would much rather be venting on here than to my wife. That would in fact defeat the whole purpose of DBing.

I did get a call from my wife yesterday at lunchtime. I ended up changing my Skype password so that she couldn't use it anymore as it's linked up to my credit card, but she emailed me asking for it so she could call me. When I had spent sufficient time calming myself down (and doing a 180 by not responding immediately) I gave it to her, she called and we spoke for over an hour.

We spoke about lots of things - in fact the conversation was relatively positive, but towards the end of the conversation I casually interjected that I had to go because I needed to call my credit card company. When she asked why, I very casually and almost indifferently said that for some reason two unauthorized transactions were showing up on my credit card statement and that I needed to get a new number issued so that it didn't happen again.

Silence

Then she spluttered like an old car and admitted that she had used my card numbers. She had bought a DVD set when she was "feeling down" and used my card to pay for the flight to see me last week. To be fair, everything else she has paid for on her own nickel and rightly so. I'm still angry that she has done it but I know that venting, lecturing etc. will get me nowhere - it will simply make matters worse.

Anyway, during the conversation she said that she has really been missing me and that she can't imagine life without us being together. She said she wants to come home in 2 weeks time to get back together...after this holiday with OM and his colleagues to France. I asked her if she's sure that's what she wanted and she said "yes, I have been thinking about it constantly". She even asked me to make an appointment with the fertility clinic.

My reaction was cool, cautious and if anything curious.

Now, some of you might think that's cause for jumping up and down but I am still very wary and cautious. That is still 2 weeks away and when DBing 2 weeks can be a long time. I am still not going to take any notice of what she says and only 50% notice of what she does. She will need to move all of her stuff in two trips so I will consider us "back together" once she's back from the second trip. However, I am encouraged by what she has been saying. She also sent me a load of pictures of wonderful moments that we've shared together on different trips and occasions, saying that we make the best team, but....I am still not going to jump up and down yet. I've been dealing with people long enough (I'm a headhunter) to know that what people say and what they do are two very different things. Things aren't always what they seem. Cautious optimism is the way to go.

I also know that if we are back together, then the real work of Piecing will begin and she may take a few months to get over the OM. I even mentioned this to her in the phone conversation. 2 years ago I gave up caffeine and found that very, very hard but I am SO glad that I did; I shared with her that she can expect it to be tough. However, if she does come back and I do get a second chance at my marriage then I will be one very happy guy.

[Just_Me]

Anyway, during the conversation she said that she has really been missing me and that she can't imagine life without us being together. She said she wants to come home in 2 weeks time to get back together...after this holiday with OM and his colleagues to France. I asked her if she's sure that's what she wanted and she said "yes, I have been thinking about it constantly".

I agree with your skepticism. I don't understand how she can be telling you she wants to be with you...but after this holiday with OM. That's the big sticking point. It's hard to reconcile, "wanting to be with you", and "after going on holiday with OM". But what can you do about it? There are really only two choices...just accept it or tell her that her actions aren't telling you that she's as fully invested in a relationship with you as her words would indicate.

She even asked me to make an appointment with the fertility clinic.

I very very strongly encourage you not to do this. This woman has been out of the country seeing another man and she wants to jump right back into considering a baby with you? She might actually come back (or maybe the vacation will change her mind), but once back might start to think that OM was the greener grass. You don't want to have a baby in this situation. I don't think introducing a baby to a troubled relationship helps anything. Right now you aren't tied to her for life...add a baby into the mix and you will be. Don't put yourself into a position where you have to travel 1000 miles to see your kid. I would not be at all shy about expressing my reservations about this...especially since she can't even cancel this vacation with OM.

[GH31]

I agree. I am going to treat this very, very carefully if she comes back. I will maintain all of my 180s but I don't think I will be satisfied that the marriage is viable until there is evidence to suggest that.

I will always work much harder on the M that I used to; I think that's a natural consequence of DBing and it would take a good two years before I really start to think of us as "reconciled".

I have no expectations at the moment. None whatsoever. As far as I am concerned I still need to make plans for my future without her in it.

[Sara]

GH31,

I see that you are very detached from your wife, and perhaps you need to be, but neither of you can ride 2 horses with one backside. So bottom line, both of you need to decide what you want to do and then make it a priority. I get the feeling that you both are saying, "I won't commit unless you commit first", and without commitment the game that you are playing can last a lifetime. I agree with Just Me, baby making needs to wait until you two are fully committed to this relationship. I'm sure globe-trotting is a lot of fun, and if that is the lifestyle that the two of you choose, there is nothing wrong with it. But there is no reason to bring a child into the mix if the two of you are just going to keep going separate ways. Sounds to me like she really wants to go to France. What kind of love trip will it be if she has already decided to split with OM man when it is over? Sounds like she is using him to see the sights.

[GH31]

Hi Sara,

I really appreciate your input on this. I am detached from my wife but that has been a deliberate (and a very hard) choice that I have made. I'm not sure if you have read the rest of my thread but when the bomb exploded she moved out, left a note saying she was in "two minds about us", took off to another country and got herself an OM. Also, we are far from our families and each other and have no kids - therefore we're not obliged to stay in contact with each other. So far we have only done so because we want to. Without doing a complete 180 and becoming the kind of person that someone would WANT to stay in touch with, I doubt that this could have been achieved.

The only contact we had for the first 6 weeks of separation was through email and one phonecall. The transition from a full-on, loving and passionate relationship complete with active sex life to intermittent email contact was very heartbreaking and very abrupt.

Therefore, once I got into DBing I reasoned that the only technique I had available to me was the LRT. There was literally nothing else I could do. I called a DB coach (Jodie) and followed her advice to the letter, got the books, read, and applied. Loving detachment is not an easy thing to accomplish - not at all but I had to do it for my own sanity and to give myself the best chance of saving my marriage. Seriously, the pain was searing at times but I had to get a grip of myself.

Since the bomb I have been working on handling my anger, selfishness and abandonment/rootlessness issues which has been wonderful. I have agreed with my wife that the separation was necessary as no other circuit-breaker would have forced me to take a good, long hard look at myself.

It's the decisions that she has made subsequent to the separation that has made me ambivalent about taking her back; the lies and hypocrisy. For example we agreed that we wouldn't date others, then she went ahead and did it. She said a whole lot of things and then did the opposite, then she put expenses on my credit card without telling me.

And, since the separation I have had several lovely girls show an interest in me and whilst I would much prefer to work things out with my wife, this gives me confidence that if it is all over I will probably find someone to love again once my psyche is sufficently healed. I know I sound really indifferent - years of working in sales and being at boarding school have made me cultivate an indifferent demeanour but I mean it when I say it that I really want to reconcile with my wife and create an even more wonderful marriage than we had before.

We had 2 miscarriages last year and that really tears both of us up. We never really were able to give each other any comfort about it and I think this contributed in some way to our marital meltdown.

Great to hear a woman's input on my situation!

Have a great Easter guys!
GH31

[gratefulweb]

GH31-

You are doing great. Keep working on yourself. Stay focused on yourself... keep healing.

Your W seems to be a bit in LA LA land. Hopefully she comes down to earth soon... and she just may!

Do NOT add a child into the mix right now. If your W thinks that having a baby will bring you two closer... it may in some regards, but it's not the proper progression for getting closer. Like Just_Me is saying and Sara... Don't do that. You have many bridges to cross before you bring ANOTHER human into your family.

Telling her this could get you negative results. You are going to have to be very gentle about it. Perhaps THERAPY (at least someone objective) would be a real good way for you to discuss the steps you two need to take and why a baby would not be a good thing right now. Let the dust settle first... see what new "grass" grows between you two.

Keep up the good work. Stay focused on your issues. Keep healing yourself. Never lose sight of that!

[Sara]

GH,

The miscarriages adds another dimension to the picture. You two are a very interesting couple! My husband and I went through infertility and several miscarriages (honestly they all get confused in my memory and I can't say how many). In fact, our first son is adopted, and then we had 2 children after that. I remember the depression caused by the miscarriages, and the sense of hopelessness. If that had been coupled with an angry spouse who treated me poorly I would have been out the door too. Going to another country sounds like an excellent idea! And I'd leap at the opportunity to travel to France with almost any man. (But don't tell my husband.) Your wife has some grieving to do. Miscarriages are losses, no matter how you look at it. I imagine she is escaping -- escaping her failure to accomplish what everyone takes for granted - babymaking, and escaping you. but she loves you. So she says. I say give her a chance. Let down the hard walls and let her in to a soft spot in your heart. She's been through the mill.

[GH31]

G'Day Sara,

Thanks for looking out for me. We actually chose to leave Australia because we wanted a change of scene and decided to come to Germany. I know that she had it in the back of her mind to have a baby here and so did I. After 3 years of marriage and jettisoning all family planning measures, there is still no sign of a little one.

This is a difficult thing to deal with. In the last 2 phone conversations that I have had with her, she says she feels the need to "start doing grown up things" like "buying a home", "having a family" and that she needs to "get back to reality". She also said when she came to see me last week that she is "having a break", "has gone AWOL" and "is a bit of a globe-hopper at the moment".

What a funny little girl she is! I think we have a rare glimpse into the inner machinery of a WAW's mind. Even better that those words are coming from her lips.

However, all of these encouraging things that she's saying I will believe (or not) when they are backed up by hard evidence - i.e. her actions. Right now as per DBing, I have absolutely no expectations - neither good nor bad.

For now I have another trip to the Alps lined up to take my mind of things and my Mum and Dad are coming next week to stay for 5 nights. Now they are one hell of a couple - married for 34 years and have never regretted a thing. Still happy together.

best,

GH31

[Kim07]

GH31,,,I'd love to talk to you, I will be in France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Monaco from April 9th-19th. I've got a eurail pass, 5 countries. Maybe I could ring you or meet somewhere. My H invited me on this business trip, while he is working he said I could go on some tours and such while he was doing his thing, so I took him up on his offer!

BTW, your sitch needs time to play out. Just hang back and react the way you would want if the sitch was the other way around, if you know what I mean. Hard to do, but YOU CAN do it!

Sincerely,
Kim