I must say I am no expert, but I wish my H had told me point blank how unloved he felt that I did not initiate ML or when I would say ok, reluctantly. I never realized how rejected he felt, I thought well, we are ML 2-3x/week so everything is fine, even if he had to beg at times. WOW, was I wrong.
Anyway, my suggestion is to read the 5 love languages book. Have a heart to heart with her so you know she fully understands your point of view and you understand her point of view. If you fulfill her love language I bet she will be more receptive to yours. nik
I must be married to your wife's sister - zero interest in any physical contact, especially sex. The occasional peck on the forehead is as good as it gets. Hostility abounds whenever the subject of sex is even hinted at and severely punished for mentioning the topic. I sympathize with you - the situation is really devestating to your whole outlook and perspective on life.
Anyway, have tried everything over the past 5 years, everything from being the most attentive person possible, long exotic vacations, weekends away etc. etc. I have also tried the distant, low attention and numerous other routes without success. In fact the low attention route results in an even frostier environment. I have tried going for councelling but she won't go as I have "the problem". I guess like many things, "drastic times require drastic measures". I feel like I am in drastic times and the only scenario that is likely to work if I want to change the situation is to threaten divorse and be prepared to carry this out. Other options, which I reject, would include finding another willing partner or taking medical measures to reduce the sex drive. I would be interested in any other comments and have just posted a thread on this topic.
Thanks nik – Unfortunately my wife is a lot different than you - I think she hates me for trying to be open with her about how I feel. There is no such thing as a heart-to-heart with her - I've tried so many times to approach her in a gentle, loving way, and no matter what I do or say she sees it as an attack. She starts by being indifferent (every answer is "I don't know"), then she becomes sarcastic (things like "yeah, I guess it's all my fault"), then she finally becomes outright mean. It hurts to have her respond like that when I just want to be closer to her, and I eventually turn into a complete jerk out of frustration. I absolutely hate it when I get to that point.
Thank you for your comments also lowrob. I had already written the rest of this post when I read your reply, and your comments don’t give me much hope that the following will do any good. But I’ll put it out there anyway in hopes of getting more opinions.
In follow up to my previous questions I thought of one more thing to ask. In the spirit of being completely open with my wife, I could come right out and tell her that I'm fed up with the whole situation and that I don’t want to go on pretending to be lovers if she won’t make an effort to resolve our problems. I love her with all of my heart and I want to be able to tell her and show her that I do, but until she cares enough about me to show me that she loves me, I don’t want to continue saying it. Also, I’m sick of being the only one to initiate anything even remotely romantic and either being rejected or feeling like she wishes I would just leave her alone. So until she’s ready to make our relationship better, I will make no effort to touch her, hold hands with her, kiss her, spend time together alone, or have sex. All of that is meaningless if she’s not in love with me. This leaves the ball in her court and if she decides that she wants me I’ll gladly start doing those things again. If she decides that she doesn’t, nothing will be much different anyway – except that I’ll stop holding onto the hope that she’ll suddenly fall in love with me again.
What do you think? Is this too harsh? Should I tell her what I’m doing or just let her figure it out? Will it help or hurt? Any comments would be appreciated.
Thats exactly what I would do. Show her, don't tell her.
Cut out the affection, don't settle for pecks on the forehead or cheek. If thats the way she's gonna be then so be it, two can play that game. Doesn't mean you act cold, just don't initiate affection or touching, that would be a 180 that may jump start some inkling in her mind that you're not settling for staus quo.
I can't find your first post on the boards so I'm sort of unclear about your complete situation. I read your current posts and see so much similarity in our situations, it scares me.
My H did what you are thinking many times. All it did was hurt my feelings. I would think, "great now he doesn't even want me anymore". If you have never said these things to your w, maybe she has no idea what your mind is thinking. If you have never said how the ssm is killing you inside I think she needs to know.
As the LD spouse, I never liked it when my H put the ball in my court. I would think, if he can just give up, why can't I? If you are not open with your w already, you should start there.
It breaks my heart to read all these posts from the HD H. I just keep thinking, "if I only knew". Tell her what you have so gracefully told all of us. Even if things don't go as planned, everything you have is on the table. No one can say, you should have told her.
If I can figure out how to do this, here is the link to my first thread. I'll warn you, it's pretty long. Maybe just reading my initial post will help.
I've actually approached my wife numerous times trying to explain to her how our sex-starved marriage is killing me inside. I honestly thought that was the best way to handle it - that's what I'd want her to do if the situation were reversed. But she actually thinks that by bringing up the subject I'm trying to run HER off. She seems to think that if neither of us ever talk about our problems they'll just go away. I don't believe that, and I'm doing everything I can to save my marriage before I get to the point of no longer caring. She thinks I'm a complete jerk for doing so, and a complete fool for participating in this messageboard. If she only understood that the little bit of hope that I get from this messageboard may have kept me from having an affair, or at the very least having a one-night stand, maybe she would appeciate the efforts I'm making just a little.
Although I've told her how I feel a thousand times, I don't think she's ever really tried to understand. She seems to be too busy thinking of how to fight with me about it. That's why I'm trying to convince her to read SSM - maybe that will help her to finally understand what I'm going through. I've even tried writing her letters - long, detailed letters that she couldn't possibly view as an attack on her. But that doesn't work either - she's just mad that I'm "forcing" her to read something - or "cramming it down her throat" as she puts it. She tells me that my methods of trying to solve our problems are all wrong, yet she can't tell me any better way to go about it. I'm at a total loss for something that might work.
I do appreciate your input relative to my earlier questions. I'm hoping for more input so that I can make an educated decision as to whether those things might do some good or just make the situation worse. Just out of curiosity, if you had absolutely no desire to be intimate with your husband, why did it bother you to think that he didn't want you anymore? I'd think that would be a relief. My wife seems outright mad that I want her - like I'm some sort of a sicko! And I'm not just talking sex - I'm talking about even innocent cuddling. I'm somewhat afraid that if I stop every hint of touching her, telling her that I love her, etc. she'll finally have exactly the relationship that she wants and I'll just become more miserable. Your input has been great so far - anything you can tell me to help me understand her viewpoint would be greatly appreciated.
In follow up to my e-mail from yesterday, for the past two days I haven't said "I love you" to my wife at the end of our phone calls (after doing so for years). Also, as she left for work both yesterday and today I made sure that I was occupied (shaving, etc.) so that I couldn't give her a goodbye kiss without having to flat out refuse it. I absolutely hate acting as if I'm not interested in her! I feel like a jerk and I'm scared of hurting her. If I really thought it might do some good I could stick it out - but what if it just makes things worse? Yesterday she seemed a little upset when I got off the phone with only a "bye". Today she seemed to be just fine with it - so she's either trying to act like she doesn't care (and she has a better "poker face" than me) or else it really doesn't bother her. Can some of you who are familiar with my situation give me some advice?
I think you need to try and lovingly detach with sincerity as best you can.
Its ok to not end the call with an ILU, as long as your voice when talking to her is upbeat and sincere. You don't have to purposely avoid a goodbye kiss, you can give her a peck on the cheek if you need to.
You don't ever want to do something that is so non-natural for you that it is counterproductive. At the same time, a subtle message must be sent to her that you aren't too accepting of her behaviour. Thats where pulling back from the ILUs and physical touching to an extent, comes into play. It takes practice Sooner, give it some time, I think you'll know how to handle it after awhile. If her wheel starts to squeak, thats a good thing, you can validate her thinking if she verbally notices whats happening. You can adjust at that time.
Let it play out for a bit, its only been a couple of days.
Hope I can answer this question so that you can understand it. You asked:
Quoting sooner1992: Just out of curiosity, if you had absolutely no desire to be intimate with your husband, why did it bother you to think that he didn't want you anymore? Sooner
It bothered me for the same reason your wife's denial bother you, it hurt! The devil on my shoulder would say, "Oh thank God, it's about time he got the message, I'm not interested." But, there's the angel on my other shoulder telling me, "see what you did? Now he doesn't even want you anymore." My H told me he wasn't interested in me because he just didn't know how to act with me anymore since it had been so long since we'd been intimate. It hurt me, but I went on and didn't change. I'm sorry to say that all this approach did was cause hurt feelings.
I have to admit that what my H would totally stop pursuing me (no grabbing, i love you's, no sex talk, no good nights etc). I would start to try pursuing him. Natural instict to keep the herd together I guess. As soon as he "loved" me back again, I went back to my old self.
Just wish your wife would read the book. Feel free to pick my brain for answers.
