Retrouvaille vs Counseling

[houndfan]

Thanks Sara, I am in the Orlando area, so I am not sure where it will be held. But I have hope that she will turn the corner and at least give it a shot. I am not sure why I feel this way, but I think that by mid-Jan we will be almost 4 months into this and it will be about the time that I hear about my new job transfer, so maybe the combination of events will help her to have some clarity about the decision.

I just hope that she has the opportunity to quiet her mind and heart and think this all out.

Thanks for all of your comments on this thread, you are certainly someone who is guiding many of us. I am so grateful that this experience has turned out different for your M that it may for some of us on here. Congratulations!

[Scottymack]

Hi Sara, havent had a chance to post lately, but W still hasnt given me an answer as to whether she will go to retro, but I am keeping up hope.
She is trying so hard to be independent, thinking that she will be ok if this D goes through. She proudly announced on monday nite that she and her D friend, were going away for a few days on the eastern shore of maryland to visit a place that she says I would never go to.
Apparently about 10 years ago, W suggested we go to this same place for vacation and I said no. I dont remember any of this, but I do remember going to the shore a few times.
I asked to have an answer when she comes home this weekend, as we need to get scheduled before it fills up.
Our session is going to be held at a monastery, and with my W still going to mass most mornings, I have to hope that there is still something in her heart that may change.
My biggest hurdle is that the W works with so many D women at work. One in particular is M a second time, and has to be unhappy in that M b/c she spends alot of her time with my W.
Talked to the priest that married us as he has been in contact with my W. He said that she wasnt gung ho on doing the retro, but I didnt think you needed to be totally 100% intent on staying together to do this.
As I have read in this thread, there are alot of M on the brink, as well as D and seperated attending.
W hasnt said no, so I guess that is a good thing.

[Sara]

Scottymack,

I don't think both spouses need to be "gung-ho" on attending Retrouvaille. But on the other hand, the more willing she is to go, the better. Retrouvaille does ask if the relationship with the OP is over before you go. They have found that those with on-going affairs are less likely to benefit from the weekend.

I wish you luck with getting her there. And don't feel bad, I wouldn't go to a mid-Atlantic beach in the winter either. Unless you are a landscape painter, a windy, cold beach is not a fun place to hang out.

[Scottymack]

Hi Sara, havnt posted for over a week, as I have been very busy with work and I really need a break from all the stuff that is on here and my sitch at home.
W still wont give me an answer as to whether she would go to retro, although I found out that she shredded the info that I gave her a few weeks ago. Why she wouldnt just throw it away is beyond me.
I have been continuing to DB, and I have made myself notes as to what I have done in the past months that have gotten positive responses from my W.
The biggest is GAL, as I had slacked off that a little over the last month b/c of the time change and weather, but I started again last Sunday, as I met friends for dinner.
Actually I was backing out of the driveway to leave when my W was coming home. As my S18 says, Sweet.
When I got home later that evening, I found out that she shredded the retro info, and I am sure that she was ticked off that I wasnt at home. Why else would she have done that? The info was on her computer desk for two weeks, and if she wanted to shred them, she had ample time.
This past week, I just left the house several times, actually going shopping for the holiday, and I came and went unannounced.
Amazing how much interest my W had in where I was. She kept telling me about what was happening in her life, and I just validated and didnt say a word about where I was.
I belong to a stock club, and have not been to many meetings lately, but decided to attend the meeting thursday evening.
W had a christmas party at work, so it was perfect for me to go without her knowing where I was. Came home a little late, and the wife was all chatty about her party and how busy she was at work. I said I was glad she had fun, but didnt say a word as to where I was.
Saturday I got a card in the mail from my stockbroker, and it was fascinating to see my W interested in who it was from.
My broker is a good looking woman, and in fact everyone in her office is female, so the card was a group picture of some very nice looking ladies! LOL
W tried to get close to me when I opened the card and I just told her that it was from a woman friend I used to know.
Wow! All of a sudden the W is showing curiosity about what I am doing!
She has been very nice to me today, and she even said she would see me later when she left a little while ago to go see her parents.
Talked to the counselor on thursday about what to do about my sitch if she wont go to retro. He said that she is probably so far into her funk, that it will probably take something major to happen for her to come around.
I dont know how long I can continue to do this, as it gets harder and harder every day.
I have been thinking about having a family meeting and spilling the beans to my kids, but then I have these guilt feelings that I am going to hurt my W.
My kids are already hurt, but dont know what the reaction will be when they find out about the OM.
Found out that my W has an appt with the OBgyn this wednesday, and I saw him at a bball game friday and talked to him at length about W.
He is going to talk to her about menopause and depression, and he hopes to get her on some medication that may help with the hormones and mood swings. We have known him for a number of years, and he mentioned that he sees many W come to him with hormone problems and problems with depression.
Most people on these boards say that nothing will help with MLC, but I am still not convinced that hormones and depression arent causing alot of the problems with the W.
Hoping against hope.
Again Sara, sorry for stealing your thread. Scotty

[Contyankee]

Hi Sara,

Remember me? Its CY

My wife and I haven't had a relationship talk since June because at that time, she told me she is not interested in working on improving our relationship and she admitted to me she does not love me.

Quite honestly, I have felt that way for a long, long time that my wife did not love me. Married over 20 years this past May with 2 children. I saw signs early on. Her yelling and swearing at me began 2 months after we were married when we went on a 3 day vacation. We packed a lunch and when we got back home, I brought up our luggage to the 2nd floor unit (we lived in a Condo and our unit was on the 2nd floor) when I heard glass shatter and her screaming. Thinking she hurt herself, I ran into the kitchen. She belittled me, yelling and cursing me out that I did not put the Strawberry Jam in the refrigerator before we left for vacation. I said nothing, cleaned, picked up the glass and mopped the floor. I remember thinking that what could I have done to prevent this? The crazy part of this is, I packed a turkey sandwich and she made a peanut butter and jam sandwich. In addition, we are talking about a jar a jam, a $2.00 jar of jam.

Apologize for it??? Not a chance. Her way of making ammends for her behavior was to make me a special dinner, buy me a gift or initiate sex, when all I really wanted to hear was those two words, "I'm sorry." Its my fault that I didn't address this back then but I didn't realize this at the time.

I SHARE THIS STORY SO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT MY WIFE'S BEHAVIOR ESCALATED OVER TIME. THE OUTBURSTS BECAME MORE FREQUENT AND MORE SEVERE AS TIME WENT ON. THE CONSTANT CRITICISM ABOUT ME, AND MY FAMILY WAS JUST TOO MUCH FOR ME. I STOPPED LOVING MY WIFE A LONG TIME AGO. I SHARE SOME OF THE BLAME THOUGH BECAUSE I DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. I BECAME AFRAID OF HER AND MANY TIMES I FEARED FOR MY SAFETY, NOT THAT I THOUGHT SHE WOULD SERIOUSLY INJURE ME THAT I WOULD BE SENT TO THE HOSPITAL OR WORSE, BUT BECAUSE SHE HAS HIT ME IN THE PAST.

Do I believe that love can return? Absolutely!!, but only with God's help. The living arrangements in the home are still the same. Today, I am much more at peace with myself as I turned my life to God. That is what gets me through each and every day. I still don't know what she plans to do other then she is waiting for that full time position.

There have been some changes from each of us though. I stand up to her now so she can't try and pull her temper on me and expect me to say nothing like before. I figure, what is she going to do anyway, and have taken sometimes a "who cares attitude" of what she thinks. The one difference I see from her now is once she started seeing me stand up to her, she respects me and doesn't talk against me or my family anymore. I don't yell at her when I stand up to her, I just state my position as a matter of fact.

I don't get angry anymore by her or anyone else because I refuse to give anyone that kind of power over me. Consequently, my stress level has decreased and I am much calmer then I have ever been. In fact, I don't remember at anytime in my life of being such a calm person. I am much more kinder to people and that was something I stopped doing for many, many years after the poor treatment I got.

Even my few close friends and family have noticed such a calmness about me and for the 1st time in my life, I feel like a man where I never felt that way before. I am who I am, no more or less. God knows who I am more then I know myself and I thank him everyday for helping me to forgive people who have never apologized to me and it doesn't matter to me if they apologize to me or not. I am very happy about that.

I purchased an outside statue of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel (Mary holding the child Jesus) that I will be putting out in my front yard. I bought it for myself for Christmas. I was going to put it out on Christmas morning but the thumb on Jesus was broke so I have to order a new one. That may not sound like a big thing to you, but in the past, I never would have done that because I knew my wife wouldn't approve of it nor would she want that. She always told me she has to see everything I wanted to purchase because she does not have the same taste as I do. It was only $65 dollars and I always wanted that statue since we moved into our house in 1991.

My wife she purchased one of those robatic vacumn cleaners. She consolidated our credit card bills and when I asked if we had money to purchase that, she said it was a Christmas present to herself. Those things cost about $250. I always let her decorate our home, regardless if I liked the painting she bought or not because it made her happy. I never gave my opionion on such things because what would I have to gain? If I said I didn't like this or that and told her what I thought of it, it would only hurt her feelings and you should never do that to someone you love.

I was raised that you do not give your opionns or give advice unless you are asked. I still believe that. On the other hand, my wife admitted to me that she has every right to state their opinions. She pulled that on me this past June when she got angry at me and my family because my parents do not want to sell their home, the only home they have known to live in a retirement community. I finally told her why this is any of your concern? Her response to me was that she and her family feels this would be best for my parents. I said that even if I wanted them to do as you say, what makes you think they would? If I were to try and sell that pitch and force them to do so, don't you think that my 4 other siblings will have a say to me? I'm sure they would be upset with me and you. So she leaves, slams the door and says that my family is so stupid.

Later, when she calmed down, I told her that I never speak that way about your family and its no wonder that our kids seem to never want to visit them. She says, I never told them that. I said, no, not directly, but indirectly you have said this to me for at least 200 times (yes, two hundred) over the course of our marriage and our children are not deaf and stupid and can hear your angry outburst. I don't like that and do not appreciate it. She said nothing but has not repeated that behavior since.

I was not given the gifts from God to have many talents (i.e. musical talent, art, things like that) but God did give me the grace to be kind and charitable so I am doing alot more of that and I am happy about that.

I spent Christmas Day with her family and I only see them twice a year which is what they want. In the past, I used to care what they thought of me, not anymore. I only care what God thinks of me and if I do things that pleases God, I don't care what others think of me. I haven't had this much confidence in myself at any other point in my lifetime.

Christmas Day went well and they actually respected me and treated me with common courtesy as they would want to be treated, which is all I really wanted. I don't remember that happing for many, many years. I prepared myself before visiting them and promised God that if they did chastise me because of my Catholic Faith, I was going to pretend I have cotton in my ears and give no response. It was actually pleasent not to hear from FIL that Jesus is full of SH__, things in the Gospels are bullSH__ and other related topics of converation that brings out his ignorance. I feel sorry for him on this because he is an unbeliever in the love for God. I once asked him many years ago during one of his opinons on this and said to him, "Don't you care about your soul, where you will spend eternity?" He responded with, "I would rather be in Hell because I will have alot more fun."

That is what my FIL thinks. That is sad and he is speaking that way out of ignorance because he does not know any better. I pray for him everyday that he will change his way of thinking as I do for all of them that they will all be converted. Its really amazing to me that I can pray for them now and not have any ill will feelings towards any of them. I know that this is a gift from God to me which is why I am happy about that. I pray everyday to have an increase of Love, Faith, Trust in Hope in God. To me, the one word that describes God is Love and that is the kind of person I want to be.

Hope all of you had a blessed Christmas and a Happy Hanukah. God Bless all of you.

CY