Scottymack, I haven't read your whole thread, but from the last page, you could be writing my thread for me.
Sorry to see you here, but since we're in this boat already, it's a great place to be.
I just wanted to tell you that as far as living in the same house, I questioned that a lot just after the final D bomb. I almost asked her to move out, but finally decided that it was better to stay in the same house for now. It appears our D be final a few weeks into the new year, and I suppose she'll move out then. (assuming I get to keep the house.)
In retrospect, I'm really glad that I didn't ask her to move out. The part of DBing about being a safe place that they can return to is why. Immediately after the D bomb, I was not doing a good job of that at all. Since I have gotten my act together, I have been doing a pretty good job of that. I am doing a lot for myself, and also making our home someplace desireable to return to when she realizes the grass isn't greener over there.
One small difference is that our kids are little, and still at home.
Like your's, my W is STUBBORN, and hates to apologize for anything. That's worrisome, because I wonder if she won't just stick with a bad situation out of stubborness.
Take care of yourself and stay strong.
-------------- The Forlorn Hope:...A picked body of men detached to the front to begin the attack....Fortified, meaning strengthened to stand...and thus, positioned for victory
Wow, mwel, what a selfish sob. "We really dont need to learn how to talk to each other". Huh? She is happy? Maybe at the moment, but I will venture a guess that she will be miserable sometime in the future, as most WA's are. She may then realize what she lost and it will be too late. It is amazing how many people that i have talked to over the last few months that have been D, (kinda like buying a new car and as you drive, seeing all same cars on the road) and the majority have said that the walk away spouse has come back a few years later to admit they made a mistake. Isn't that sad? Hang in there, life will get better.
Wow, mwel, what a selfish sob. "We really dont need to learn how to talk to each other". Huh? She is happy? Maybe at the moment, but I will venture a guess that she will be miserable sometime in the future, as most WA's are. She may then realize what she lost and it will be too late. It is amazing how many people that i have talked to over the last few months that have been D, (kinda like buying a new car and as you drive, seeing all same cars on the road) and the majority have said that the walk away spouse has come back a few years later to admit they made a mistake. Isn't that sad? Hang in there, life will get better.
Yes I know, she is selfish. She is a “ME” person. Everything must be about her.. I told her that I would like to talk to her again and that I think we needed to learn how to talk with each other. She says that she is happy. She has OM and she is happy.. Not to sound mean but I hope that she will be miserable sometimes and I hope she realizes what she had and lost…and when (if) that day comes I just hope that I have the strength to tell her how I feel…maybe I would want her maybe I wouldn’t. Right now I pray that she comes back to admit that she made a mistake, I don’t know if I will say the same thing in the future.. It is sad that the majority of WAS come back and admit it, when they could have prevented from the beginning. M is work, it doesn’t come easy. I wish my W would realize that. I’m hanging by a thread…I hope life will get better…
mwel, sounds like your W and mine are very much alike. My W said she knew that the M was over about this time last year when she said that I wouldnt pick my D up at college for fall break. I spent over 5 hours back and forth on fridays picking up D and then doing it all over again on sunday to get her back. D had major trouble adjusting to being away from home, and she called my W 24/7. Apparently I had tried to get D to make friends and to try to find rides home, so that made me a bad dude. Turns out D couldnt find a ride home, so W and I went up after work on a wednesday and brought her home. D eventually found friends and did get rides home for a few weeks, and then decided she didnt want to go back after the holidays, and is now commuting to a local college. I kept asking, as well as the C, what all this has to do with our R. She had no answer. C told me that when they dont answer, they know that they dont have a leg to stand on, and clam up rather than give an answer. W was somewhat LD about 10 years ago, and she said she knew that it was her problem and had to fix it herself. She also said that she thought about leaving then, but she had no place to go. She apparently worked it out, as I thought up until a few months ago when she dropped the bomb, that my M was as good as it gets. How could I be so blind! If the S doesnt ever mention that they are unhappy, are we supposed to be able to read their minds? How can someone profess to be so unhappy, and be able to have that outward appearance of happiness? I still say that W may have thought about leaving again, but alot hinges on empty nest, turning 50, major stress at work, and finding the old high school boyfriend on the internet. He came on at the right time when the W was apparently on an emotional low and the excitement for the W began. One thing I will never understand when I hear all the stories of friends and clients with the same problems, why don't S open their mouths and talk about what is bothering them? It would save so much heartache. I just imagine if I knew even a year ago that the W was unhappy, what we could have done to keep from getting to this point. Sara, sorry to steal your thread.
IMHO ... be extremely wary about going to Retrouvaille if she's not in a good frame of mind. It MAY work if and only if BOTH have at least some hope/desire to save the marriage and faith in God and give it ALL they have.
When I went they seemed to have done a lousy job of screening for my W's motivations and attitude in attending. Turned out her motivation was not to try to "save the marriage" but to make it "easier to divorce". And she claimed she was "coerced" into going even though they supposedly screened her for that as well. The Retrovaille folks try very hard to get couples to just "show up"; after that you're pretty much on your own. It seemed too intense and busy and the hotel was also very crowded. They apply too much pressure to attend the sessions, dialog etc. that sort of went against the DBing principals of give the other person more space and time and this turned W off further. While there, W also conveniently declared she was now no longer Catholic, did not attend the masses, etc. So it turned out to be a very traumatic, humiliating and expensive($$$) weekend for me. I know it has helped others as evidenced by the speaker couples, but you take you chances.
Even if Retrovaille does soften up the WAW its only the afterglow of 1 weekend organized by non-professional people who do not take any responsibility for the outcome. So it needs solid/more formal follow-up measures. Besides "dialoging", most couples would probably require months of years of follow-up C, marriage education, etc.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
I don't know where or when you went to Retrouvaille, but your description does not match the event I went to at all. While they do ask participants if they will attend with an "open mind and willing heart", the couples self-select to go. That is, Retrouvaille did not recruit you, you chose to go there. If your wife ambushed you and was uncooperative, that is not their fault. Certainly that can happen. They do not have a 100% success rate in saving marriages. But the success rate is over 50%, and that is very impressive.
And no, their philosophy has nothing to do with DB. It is a different philosophy completely, based on honest and open communication. They do not suggest that you "act as if..." They suggest that you accurately and completely describe your real feelings, and share them with your spouse. You cannot both be open and create mystery at the same time. If you go to Retrouvaille, you must drop the DB while you are there.
I particularly don't understand your comment that it is just one weekend with no formal follow-up. There are six follow-up "Post" sessions, and if you want to repeat any of them at a later date you can.
Retrouvaille is excellent at dealing with communication problems between spouses. If that is the source of the marital problems, then fixing communication fixes the marriage. However, often there are deeper underlying problems that come to light once the communication problem has been fixed. What I have observed is that in a lot of cases one spouse is chronically depressed. This depression has been driving the antagonism within the marriage. Retouvaille cannot fix these sorts of problems. However, it can bring them to light. Then it is up to the couple to seek the help they need either through counseling or medical treatment to deal with the underlying problems. But improving the communication can only help.
And yes, fb2. If you attend Retrouvaille, you are expected to show up for the sessions and do the dialogues. That is what you went there for. The program can only work if you give it a chance. The weekend is work; working on your marriage. If you want a quiet weekend at a hotel to give each other space, then just book a vacation at your convenience. I do know that they prefer to hold the weekends at monasteries and other quiet locations, and avoid the hotel scene. But that is not possible in every city. They do the best they can to help as many people as they can.
My wife certainly did not come with an "open and willing heart" , crowded/busy places don't help and you don't quite know the details prior to attending - they intentionally kept it a bit mysterious. That's why I caution that its important to go in the right spirit or it will not work. Otherwise I agree 100% with your comments.
I myself prefer "open and honest communication" to "as if" which is why I initiated going. And you are also right about the depression - I think it was the case with my wife as well but I did not catch it early enough because it was masked by continued hostility. At any rate I'm glad it worked out well for you and hope you can keep up the dialogs.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
So I have read this entire string and can see that there is some benefit to Retro and that it is a challenge to get a spouse to come. So.... I guess I need to stop and reflect on how I can get my W to come to the session in Jan in our town.
I appreciate all of the excellent thoughts and ideas already posted herein. My hope is that some of this renewed intimacy that she and I have had over the last week or two will ignite some additional feelings in her and help her to go. My fear is that she has a home party the weekend of the event and I need to pray that she will give up the party and the income to work on our marriage.
I am so hopeful sometimes, and then others I am completely without hope. All the while she is holding out for Jim Halpert!
So, I appreciate any suggestions that you all may have, but really I would ask for you to pray for Mrs. Hound in hopes that she will attend. I still think that there is something very special under the surface of all of this mess....
Me: 33 jacka** whom lied, stole, cheated, and basically treated DW like crap for years DW: 29 kind soul who gave too much to me over the relationship
S7 S4
M: 7yrs Bomb: 10/19 Seperated: 10/24
The worst reconciliation is better than the best divorce
Yes, getting there is the hardest part. We attended the program in Tampa. FL., where it was held at a monastery. If you are on the west coast of Florida, I would recommend that one.
