Down and out...need hope.

[Rob1231]

Ignore it and focus on you.

[Tostada]

ring back on today.

rollercoaster.

[Rob1231]

pay no attention.

you.






btw why talking like this?

[Tostada]

I didn't react to either event to her, but, both effected my pma in both directions.

I think its a positive in some way that she feels like wearing it.
either way, I think it shows how confused the waw mind is.

[Tostada]

here's an update on my weekend. we didn't spend any time together. she wanted the kids all weekend, but it didn't turn out that way. she went out to dinner with friends on sat night. said she would be home early and got home aft 1am.
sunday was eventful. she texted me in the afternoon saying she wouldn't be home for dinner. I called her to see what was up. she said she was having dinner with a friend. I asked her what his name was. this ruffled her.."how do you know its a him?" because she would have told me their name. so, she told me it was a guy going through a divorce that a friend recommended she talk to. to me, this was a blind date. nice friends she has that are supplying her dates right now. so, I never went home to cover for her and watch the kids. what a joke if she thinks I would do that for her so she could go on a date. I spent the night at a friends house. she texted a few angry messages to me while I was there. I cannot believe she is that insane right now.

I went home in the morning and she was there. she didn't ask where I had been. I asked her why some much anger and hatred towards me. she said she wasn't mad and didn't hate me but doesn't know how to act around me. says if shes nice, I take it wrong,. and if shes not, I get upset.

so, I told her how unhappy I was that she went out on a date. she said it wasn't a date, she just wanted to talk to him and get his perspective. said it was only 1hr and she wasn't interested in him and was sorry that I was threatened by this. I don't feel threatened by him, just the fact that she went on a date and expected me to make it convenient for her. one thing she said about her conversation with this guy was that we had similar circumstances. she said his wife got lazy, let herself go, and might have had an affair. that caught my attention. I may have been a little lazy, but have not let myself go, and did not have an affair. I made her clearly aware of that and what a joke to leave someone for those reasons. to me, even if they are true, they are fixable. she said shes disappointed we aren't moving forward. I told her we aren't moving forward because she doesn't want to move forward. I told her that all "this" is not worth it for the reasons and excuses she has been describing. the are workable issues. I also told her we are really much closer to solving our problems if she chose, it would take effort, but we are closer than she thinks on solving them. it was a nice calm discussion. I'm sure I didn't change her mind on anything, but I know I had her attention.

then, later I asked if we could go on a walk with our dog..and we did. talked a little bit. she taking on more work now. I asked her to please not work in thw evenings while home. and..that if it were to work out for us and we are both going to be working a bunch, that we get a nanny to help a few days a week so we can spend time with the kids and each other. I said we can't have a relationship and take care of our kids unless we have some time to spend with each other. she actually agreed with me.

I had to leave for work out of town. she gave me a hug when I left. even commented that I needed some new jeans. doesn't seem like much, but she hadn't asked anything or commented on anything about me for months. severe little baby step.

I know shes looking for a place to live. she wants me to review our finances with her so she can buy a house. I think shes in for a huge realitty check when she figures out what she can spend. I don't think she will be able to get a very big loan amd combined with what cash she can pull, she won't be able to buy anything near to what we have now. plus, she would have exhausted all cash, etc, wouldn't have any savings or retirement. this will be a big sacrifice for her. I still don't think its worth it based on how we get along. I'm not a drunk, don't abuse, good father, and a nice guy. I don't see how this would be worth it to her.

[sandi2]

Oh T......you just keep pressing and pressing and pressing. You don't get it! How can we make you see that she does not want a R with you now? Sorry to be so plain, but you won't listen. She wants to feel free and you are treating her like she is still your W....which she is, but she doesn't want to feel like she is your W....that is the point. She wants to be free and she doesn't want you controling her life.

I asked her what his name was. this ruffled her.."how do you know its a him?" because she would have told me their name. so, she told me it was a guy going through a divorce that a friend recommended she talk to. to me, this was a blind date. nice friends she has that are supplying her dates right now.

You know without me saying it that was a big "no-no". Yes, she is still M to you and you acted like the jealous H. Was it worth it? Maybe you felt better but I can promise you that you hurt yourself doing this.

I asked her why some much anger and hatred towards me.

You are kidding, right? After the way you acted?

she said she wasn't mad and didn't hate me but doesn't know how to act around me. says if shes nice, I take it wrong,. and if shes not, I get upset.

And she is absolutely right.

so, I told her how unhappy I was that she went out on a date. she said it wasn't a date,

See? You keep pressing the issue of it being a date. You got mad, and showed her how mad you were by spending the night away and then go in an want to know why she's angry and feeling hatred toward you!

Listen sweetie, you are hanging onto false hope. You wear her down to the point she gives up and listens to what you have to say about the R and you think you've gained some ground. She shows a little compassion and you think you've earned brownie points. She is wanting to buy a house, tostada! She does not want to be with you right now. If you don't back away and leave her alone and let her live her life.....you will lose her forever. Listen to me friend, you can lose some time with her now and hopefully get her back by doing a lot of work on yourself......or you can keep pressing her and acting like the jealous, controlling, husband.....and lose her forever. It's your choice. Don't say it is her choice......b/c you are just blaming her. The ball is in your court and you better play it right or you've lost it forever.

[Tostada]

ok..so I'm not very good at this.

its so hard because I love and miss her so much, that drive is pulling much harder than db.

however, do I really have false hope? is she really a goner? I don't know, maybe. but if were still under the same roof and shes wearing her ring,how can I be a doormat, approve and encourage her to date?

one fault I had in our relationship I believe I wasn't appreciative enough, I didn't show I loved her. I haven't been showing any of this or saying ilu. how do I do this? either way, we seem to be on better terms when we are together more, and poorer terms when I totally completely leave her alone. but, maybe that's what she wants. thus, I see when she leaves the house as the ending point in us. I just believe our m and kids deserve more of an effort than just turning out the lights.

[sandi2]

one fault I had in our relationship I believe I wasn't appreciative enough, I didn't show I loved her. I haven't been showing any of this or saying ilu. how do I do this?

This is what is so sad with H's. They don't do any of this stuff when they are suppose to and then the W realizes that when she tries to tell him what she needs.....he isn't really listening to her and he doesn't "get it" and doesn't do any changing. So, she gets enough and is ready to leave for a better life.....then the H reacts like you have done. That is why many W's feel that the H's attempt is too litte too late b/c the W has had to emotioanally divorce herself from the M and build up a defense wall around herself to protct her feelisng for such a long time. When she got tired of trying to tell the H what she needed, she shut down and he thought everything was okay. But, it wasn't and so when the bomb hits, the H is all shocked and goes off the deep end and gets all hurt b/c the W is not responding like he thinks she should.

You are still refering to her having dinner with that man as a blind date, but she tried to tell you it wasn't a date. You still won't believe her and still throw it up. However, you spent the night with a "friend".....did you tell her who it was? Or, did you just go home acting like everything was all cool only to find out she was upset with you. Then you couldn't understand why she was in a bad mood! You don't get it do you?
I'm sure it was not a woman you spent the night with. however, when posting to us you just refered to a "friend", just like your W had done about having dinner with a "friend".....but do you see the diffence you are making here? It is okay for you, but not for her?

No, I don't think if you are going to stay in the same house that she should go on "dates"......real dates. I do think she should be free to come and go as she wants to as long as she makes arrangements for the children. After all, she is trying to figure out what she wants and you are wanting her to stay under the same roof with you until she can realize what she wants to do. You are hoping she will come to her senses and see that she loves you and wants to be your wife. True? But, the thing is that you want her to continue to behave as she is your wife, and I can understand that.....but here is the thing....the reason she took the ring off is b/c she doesn't want to feel like your wife right now! She doesn't want you treating her as a wife.......the control issues, etc. Most men just can't give that up when it comes to their W. You are wanting to still have control and dictate to her......as shown by how you over reacted with her having dinner with the "friend".

I know you still love her and you are scared. It is very fragile times. But if you feel that the more you spend time together....the better, then why is she insisting that she leave?

I think your only hope is to give up on the past R and try for a new one with her. That will require a lot of work on your behalf. If you were slack in giving her what she needed during the MR....she probably won't trust you to stick with it again. She will be afraid that it is just to woo her back and then you will stop. My advice is to treat her as though she is not your property/wife but a free agent and that you are trying to win her amoung all the other men out there. That meaning, she will have to fall in love with you...the man she sees now....from start...fresh and brand new. Can you do it? Is it worth it to you?

[Rob1231]

I agree with Sandi, for the most part. (I probably wouldn't characterize it quite so much as "this is what H's do" as "this is what WAS's do". But that's really not the point, and not worth a big debate. )

Tostada, I really, really want to see you succeed - but to do that, you have GOT to back off. Your posts are all about your W - either focused on what she does, or focused on how you react to what she does.

Look at it this way. Assume that your W is not married to you. Let go, for the time being, of all of those claims you believe you have on her time and affection. Instead, think of it as if you are two friends who MIGHT have a more meaningful R develop.

First, how do you act towards her? Do you demand to know who she sees and what she does? Do you argue and second-guess? Or do you take it slow and easy, building on your friendship with care and thoughtfulness?

Second, what about you? Are you an interesting, confident, happy, appealing individual? Are you someone that a woman would hang around and say "Now THIS is a guy I want to be in a relationship with?" Do you have a "Life" apart from your M, that helps you bring new and exciting experiences into your relationships with everyone you meet? Do you exude Positive Mental Attitude to people around you?

Build a foundation for a future relationship, and stop undermining what's left of the existing one with your pursuing behaviors.

[sandi2]

Very well said, Rob. I hope you will listen to him Tostada. Instead of being the angry husband (even if you have all the rights in the books that say you do) try to be a person she will like and fall in love with. Become that interesting, sexy, man that she would be attracted to and then flirt with her and hopefully woo her back. But it will take time.....you have got to be patient.