Alive and Kicking!!!!! (CM # I lost count)

[Tiara Boy (CM)]

Good day everyone.... Long time no post.

So much has transpired I don't know where to begin.

Cros is on a low dose of Adderall and it is helping. It should probably be more but we will see. Her grades have improved and so has her attitude which is good.

I received a call last week from the school in a panic. CL had dropped off Crosby with medication in hand and was going to have her take it at school. They called CL and the nurse was explaining to her that it was against the law and CL was being abrasive to the nurse. The nurse put her on hold and CL hung up b/c "i had to work". Well excuse me... We are talking about our child. So I dealt with the school and made it VERY clear to them that we were NOT married. They tried calling CL back and she wouldn't answer.

She hangs up on people when she doesn't like what she hears. It happens to me all the time.

She didn't return paperwork to school last week that needed to be returned. She called and asked me what time would be good to set up a conference with the teacher and I told her, but I had to schedule it b/c she failed to do so.

I went to Boston last Wed. to see Iron and Wine in concert with Ms. V. I had a great time. It was very low key. We just hung around most of the weekend.

After being picked up at the airport on Wed. I talk to Cros and then she calls back and tells me that mommy had told her that Val and I are bf & gf. I didn't lie, but I did talk to CL about it. It was not her place to tell Cros. CL then keeps calling me back telling me that Crosby is very upset about all of it and that I had lied to Crosby. So I would talk to Crosby about it and she said she was doing ok and that she knew mommy and OM were BF and GF. I told CL that her irresponsibility was driving me nuts and that she needs to make some changes if she wants to continue to be a full time parent with the kids. I told her it is obvious to a lot of people that she is not making them her first priority.

Cara called later that night about all of it and proceeded to tell me that I was an a-hole and that she was no longer going to have Crosby go to Kristin's house after school. I replied that her "guilt, anger and absentmindedness should not be taken into consideration when we are talking about what is best for our D"

She proceeded to tell me that she hates me and I told her I understood why... "I get the feeling I am breaking your heart and that is not my intention. I am just taking myself and my children to heart and doing what is best for us." Her response was that "You and Val are forming this happy little family and want to take the kids from me so you can get married and have the time of your lives." I basically said that she is the mother of the kids and always will be and there is no talk of a "happy little family". I would bet it all that she didn't hear 1/4 of my end of the conversation and in reflection she has never really heard me.

During the course of this convo I asked her on two different occasions how the subject of Val and I came about with Crosby. Both times the answers were different, which I knew they would be. I told her "It is sad that I have to get the truth from my 7 yo daughter." The conversation ended there.

When I was in MA a few things occured with Val that require her to move and leave MA for the benefit of her and her daughter. I don't want to divulge all the details, but there are people who know the situation here on the boards. Well, things started falling in place yesterday and so I made the announcement to Cara that she "might" be moving down here and will need a place to stay until she gets on her feet. (I would do this for any of my friends.... but don't start asking for a vacation home in orlando please!! ) Cara was ok with it (b/c she can't do anything about it) but of course tried to bash Val. She has the fear that Val will become the mother to her kids. Understandable, but not going to happen and I tried to reassure her.

sidenote: If/when V does come down here we are at an understanding that this is NOT permanent. Neither one of us wants a live in relationship. She wants her own place for her and her D and I want the house for the kids and I. We are also not going to sleep in the same bed when my kids are there. I do not want to subject them to something they might not be ready for. This is first and foremost about me being a friend to her and helping her get on her feet.

I told her that she is putting a lot of effort into not liking someone that she doesn't know and who has offered herself up to conversation with Cara regarding the kids. (shows the difference in maturity level)

I'm taking the kids up to MA at the end of Oct. for Val's D's b-day. Crosby has been begging to go to Boston, so we are going. Cara of course wants to have an issue with this "it's so far" yada yada. I told her that she has taken the kids to NE and I've taken them to KS alone. We will be fine.

So.... Here I sit. I should be working, but thought I need to check in with people.

[pat44]

Hi CM:

When I was in MA a few things occured with Val that require her to move and leave MA for the benefit of her and her daughter. ... Well, things started falling in place yesterday and so I made the announcement to Cara that she "might" be moving down here and will need a place to stay until she gets on her feet. (I would do this for any of my friends.... but don't start asking for a vacation home in orlando please!!

I'm taking the kids up to MA at the end of Oct. for Val's D's b-day. Crosby has been begging to go to Boston, so we are going.

I suspect that Crosby already views Val as an adult that is family. I suspect you do too - it is unlikely if you were M that you would ask your W if Val and her D could move in with you. Val is an adult. How would she have handled the situation if you had not come into her life? She may have to leave MA - but I do not understand why she "needs" to move in with you.

If Val and you do not work out - Crosby will have to deal with the loss of another adult that she is growing to love. The level of attachment that Crosby has developed with Val and her D is evidenced by her begging to go to Val's D's B-day.

Having Val move in with you - even temporarily, will reinforce the notion that you and Val are couple - not "just friends". The separate bedroom thing is simply semantics. Kids are much smarter than that and will pick on the non-platonic R between the two of you as will be manifested by your interactions. The kids and neighbors will view you as a couple. In all likelihood - Val will participate in taking care of your children while she is there - in a "motherly" manner. You will probably all sit down together for dinner - like a family. You will go out on outings together as like a family.

I am concerned about how your children will react to Val moving in. I am also concerned with how your children will react if you and Val do not work out. They have already been through the separation of you and Cara. I personally would not subject them to the loss of another adult that they are coming to view as a mother figure.

If you decide to have Val move in - even temporarily IMHO, you need to view the situation as "creating" a family when it comes to how your children are perceiving the situation.

take care,
AG

[swashy]

Sorry Ty...I kind of have to agree with AG. I told you yesterday when you told me that CL told Cros that you and Val were a couple that I never would have even let the kids meet Val and I stick by that. IMHO, it's simply way to early to be introducing your kids to her. And I know you did it as if Val was just a "friend" but they will see the connection just like everyone else. And yes you would do this for any other friend...but the fact is, Val is not just a friend. Andd that unfortunately makes this different.

I know the situation is difficult and I know you want to help her and I really do want to see her get down there...for her...just not sure it's a good idea to have her staying under the same roof as you and your kids. Is there no way for her to line up some type of job prior to coming down and getting even a 1 bedroom place? How about even staying in a cheap hotel room on the nights you have the kids and then with you the nights you don't...

[Tiara Boy (CM)]

AG and Swash... I see your points. I really do. However, I have discussed this with more than one counselor and was told to wait a year (conservatively) before introducing them to someone else.

Now I ask the both of you... If you had a friend in need who needed a place to stay and was a member of the opposite sex would you turn them down? If not wouldn't they be viewed as part of the family? Even a member of the same sex? And, what would happen if things didn't work out between the two roommates?

Do we not introduce people in our lives to others for fear of loss or do we introduce them b/c we want to share these people with others who are close to us? Do i keep my kids from my 83 year old neighbor whom they love because he is old and could not be with us anymore at any point?

Please do not take any of this as angry. I am not and I always appreciate a good critique. I also know the entirety of the situation whereas most of you do not. And I do not care to completely share another person's life without their approval.

AG- Crosby has been begging to go to Boston, not Val's house. We just scheduled it around the same time so there will kids to play with. (That means you Swashy!)

You are predicting the future my friend. You are living in assumptions. Please give me an example of the "non-platonic" behavior you speak of. There will not be physical intimacy in front of my children. This hasn't even happened and you say that my kids will view her as a mother figure? My kids have been hanging around the OM since last Dec. I cannot control that and how they view him. I can however control me and my interactions with Val in front of my children.

My D knows we are a "couple" in the way a 7yo can. What that means to her I am not sure. We will part ways eventually when she gets her own place. But, the circumstances at this point prevent her from affording that right now.

Swashy- I ask again. How will this make this different? Take the physical part of the relationship out and how is it different? I think you fail to take into account me and the person I am. I'm a bleeding heart. I hug guys. I cry. I care about humanity in general. If this were you, Lisa, Mo, Ian, HS, Shoe.... I would do the same. We wouldn't be sleeping together and I love all of you. Sure, we would probably go do things together and eat together on occasion. But, I would also take my kids and do stuff just with them.

I see a big difference here Between the thoughts of myself and HS (correct me if I'm wrong HS and I will probably be able to explain more to you later since you do know her) and those of AG and Swash.... Do not take offense.

It is assumptions and expectations... I have none of this situation. Val will come down here when the time presents itself. A plan to deal with reactions of others is pointless until then. I have and will continue to do what is best with my kids first and foremost. To say that they will view Val as a mom or us as a family is the same for me to say that you will get in a car wreck this afternoon. Are you going to walk home today?

[swashy]

Ty...Val is your girlfriend. That is a fact. She is not me, Ian, Shoe, Lisa, Mo...or anyone else. And I guarantee you that if you went into a room of 20 adults - most would figure it out just by the way you interact with one another...regardless if any physical contact is made. The way you talk, laugh and look at each other would do it. And I'm willing to bet that this will also come across to Cros...and probably already has actually.

So now the message is, mommy and daddy get divorced and moved onto new relationships. Maybe that is what you do in life, when one relationship fails you just move onto a new one. Fill that hole. A year? Is that from divorce, seperation, what?

Let me ask you this Ty? How does having your kids exposed to this relationship HELP her? I think the fact that you are so concerned on how to handle your interactions when you are together with your kids is sign enough that it is the wrong decision.

I'm not saying that she doesn't move to FL. I really think she should...I just don't think that the two of you living under the same roof sets a good example for your children. She used to live down there...does she have any other friends she can stay with? I have to assume that this will not be a long term situation...a few weeks maybe? Is she looking for a job?

I know that when I moved to WI 15 years ago I had hardly a penny to my name but I managed to find a job and a place to live within a week. Was it easy? No...but I did and I have to believe that she can too.

[Fender]

Reading all of this got me to thinking about you HS. How are things between you and your long time friend? How did you handle that with your D?

[Fender]

BTW CM, I am not saying you should or should not press on with your plan. I would say it will require due vigilence on your part to control the unintended consequences.

[pat44]

Hi CM:

If you had a friend in need who needed a place to stay and was a member of the opposite sex would you turn them down? If not wouldn't they be viewed as part of the family? Even a member of the same sex? And, what would happen if things didn't work out between the two roommates?

I agree with Swashy's answer.

Val is an adult - she can take care of herself. She will find another solution. You are not the only person in the world that can help her - if you are that is a red flag in your R... That is another issue. If you really feel that strongly about helping Val - pay her rent for a 1 bedroom apartment.

Since the bomb, Crosby has already had to deal with the "loss" of an ideal version of a family, her mother havig a new bf, and her father having a new gf.

Loss of an 83 year old neighbor is different than losing a mother figure. If Val is as great as you say she is - well she will probably treat Crosby much like she treats her own daughter. And with the "ideal family void" in her life - your D will become increasingly attached to Val.

I am sure you will make every effort to be platonic. Crosby already knows you are bf and gf. What are you going to tell her? We are bf and gf that do not act like bf and gf.... very confusing...

To say that they will view Val as a mom or us as a family is the same for me to say that you will get in a car wreck this afternoon. Are you going to walk home today?

The probability of a of being a car wreck analogy... Is the Val risk like driving a Yugo or a Hummer? If the risk of Val being viewed as a Mom is comparable to surviving a collision in a Hummer in the US (not Iraq)- you have my blessing!

take care,
AG

[Tiara Boy (CM)]

So let me get this straight. What I am hearing you say is that if Val and I were together for 2, 3 10 years this still wouldn't be right of me to be a decent person b/c of fear of the unknown? That we might not last? That we might break up and it could hurt the kids?

True... if something were to happen to our relationship it would hurt the kids. But, if we live in the same town and hang out together such as CL and the OM with the kids, won't that hurt them as well? My D is attached to the OM's D like nobody's business. I cannot control that.

Swash... Just b/c I show concern for how I handle this with my kids has nothing to do with it being right or wrong. It has to do with me putting my kids first and being good to them.

What is a good example to my kids? I feel that by opening my doors to someone in need is a pretty damn good example and the door has already been open. I am not going to shut it now.

AG- I will not say what the risk of Val is... but with our communication and the separate concern for the well being of our children, I would say it is very low. She is already looking for a job without even knowing when she will be down here and is also looking for places to live. Her stuff will be going into storage until she finds a place.

There are some issues here still with assumptions. The assumption that consequences are going to arise. That the relationship will end. That this will have a very negative effect on Crosby. That this is the wrong thing for everyone?

I love to intellectualize and find proof in things. I would like to pose a question to you AG and Swash and whomever wants to answer this: Where do you get your proof that this is the wrong thing to do? Is it your own issues or morals? Is it a factual statement derived from someplace? Is it the want of your old R back and not willing to venture ahead?

We all ended up here b/c we took our spouses for granted (more than likely) and ASSUMED they would always be there for us.

I will continue to be a great father and I will continue to be a great friend. I am divorced. I have two kids to support and love and I will continue that until the day I die.

[BethM]

Hi Ty,

Considering what our kids have been through I do believe that everything we do has to be done taking their well being as our first consdideration. I believe that you do want to do that for your kids. I don't feel I know you well enough to tell you what is right for your sitch, and right or wrong, I don't have to live with any consequences that may arise from their choices.

What I do believe is that you and Swashy are friends and he is giving you his point of view as a parent and friend. As parents we have all seen first hand the sadness and confusion that our kids have already had to live through and none of us want to be the cause of anymore stress in their lives. Of course nobody knows your child as you do or the kind of bond that is between you.

My advice is to always be honest with your child. I believe that the first best thing we can give them is for them to know we love them unconditionally and the second thing is for them to know that when we tell them something they can take it to the bank! This parent gig is tough!

Good luck.........