Quote: Help him learn to talk about his feelings more
When I saw your post, it hit home. When my h and I had our big fight, he said he wanted out of our marriage and felt like killing me. Today. he told me I have got too angry when he said that and I escalated the argument too much. He said he was merely expressing his feelings like a counselor years ago told him he needs to do.
What a crock...I don't think you should express feelings of ever wanting to kill someone or wanting a divorce unless a person wants to be taken seriously.
Not sure where your thread is... Don't be to hard on your H. If a C recommended that he express his feelings, he likely doesn't do it very well. So, maybe he was doing the best he could.
LL, I have read this thread and I have a few thoughts for you. Your husband sounds very confused but it does sound as if he is trying to bring himself back to you. It seems as if he wants things to work out. However, I get the sense that he fears that you do not accept him for who he is. Although family should come before work, if he is like many men, perhaps he prides himself in his ability to work hard and support your family. ( I don't know your whole situation so maybe I'm off base about this). But in my experience, many people don't understand how their spouses feel about being the primary breadwinners in their families. It's an awesome responsibility. And their spouses rarely say, "I'm so proud of you." or "I just love and admire the way you take care of us financially." Working hard should not take the place of relationships, but it should be appreciated and recognized for the sustenance it offers families. Have you expressed your appreciation about this and other things he has done?
Plus, he has said things to you that indicate his readiness to work on your marriage. Unfortunately, he doesn't use your words. But rather than expect him to be your clone, I'd prefer you stretch yourself to try to understand his language. It really does need to be a two-way street. the fact that you two are different, doesn't necessarily make him wrong. If he feels wrong in your presence, it will make it hard for him to want to be around you. We all want to feel as if we're good people.
Another thing, don't try to pin him down right now about being committed to working things out. He's confused. If you push him, you'll either push hiim away or make him say something he doesn't really believe and then he'll resent you and pull away anyway. So watch his actions rather than force him to decide and commit verbally as to his plans. Be patient. (I know you have). But continue being patient. It's a great sign that he's willing to go to your counselor. I get enthusiastic when a reluctant spouse joins the motivated spouse even if s/he says it's to talk about how to handle the children. It really doesn't matter WHY he's coming. If your counselor is good, you can make the session productive and turn toward positive feelings in the marriage. So stop being so literal and watch what happens next. Take a deep breath.
I'm not saying you shouldn't consult with an attorney. The threat of your doing that seems to have touched your husband in some way. So it's not a bad thing. All I'm saying is for you to keep your eyes and heart open, not just your ears. Watch and feel him, don't just rely on words.
And one final thing, I don't think it's a good idea to talk to your kids about your feelings about your husband. they're kids. What's happening in their lives is hard enough right now. Knowing mom is mad at dad is hard enough. Talking to them about it pulls them into the loop even more. they deserve to be kids, not little people worried about adult problems. They love both of you and it should stay that way. It's the only way they'll come out of this thing whole.
I know this has be very difficult for you and that you've been a real trooper and a major source of help to everyone on this board. Now be your own best friend. Be patient. Get good help. Good things might be right around the corner. Michele
Quote: Working hard should not take the place of relationships, but it should be appreciated and recognized for the sustenance it offers families. Have you expressed your appreciation about this and other things he has done?
yes, I have often.
Quote: All I'm saying is for you to keep your eyes and heart open, not just your ears. Watch and feel him, don't just rely on words.
I am feeling him go through the motions...but not toward me...I am feeling him moving away from me...a hug would be nice...him to return to sleeping in our bed would be nice...but once again he is falling asleep on the couch and may or may not find his way up to the bed by morning. the distance is growing...though now he is talking (only just last night and this evening) there is still a gap in us a huge gap that has grown over the past weeks.
Quote: And one final thing, I don't think it's a good idea to talk to your kids about your feelings about your husband. they're kids. What's happening in their lives is hard enough right now. Knowing mom is mad at dad is hard enough. Talking to them about it pulls them into the loop even more.
I didn't talk to him about it, I simply answered his question...son said are you angry...I said not at you sweetie...son said are you mad at daddy..I said a little...and that was the end of the discussion..I did not elaborate anything more..are you suggesting I should have lied to my son...let him see his mother angry..(and honestly there wasn't much to see..I happen to have an extremely intuitive 3 year old boy) and have her deny it...is it not ok to be angry with someone...son knows that people can be angry at him for something...should he be the only one around here that anyone gets angry at?? is it not possible for daddy to be angry with mommy or visa versa?? even in "happily" married families mommies and daddies are occassionally angry with eachother for whatever reason..whether she spent to much money or he forgot her birthday...should I just pretend to be an emotionless void around my children and not let them know people can be angry sometimes...for heaven sake anger is a basic emotion they teach it on sesame street...I've never sat and said to my son mommy is angry at daddy for x y or z cause frankly it's none of his little business.
Quote: you've been a real trooper and a major source of help to everyone on this board.
you don't even know how good that statement made me feel! thank you!!
Nice to be "acknowledged" eh? Not much I can add but from my standpoint there is a huge amount of hope that it will work out for you. If I were you....I would "treasure" what you and your H have together (kids....life). He obviously does.
in a sense I knew things would happen this way...when h came home (or during the time he was trying to come home) the majority of our interaction was physical...there were a few initial emotinal or rational conversations and from there it just moved to physical...I made mention of it to h many times...probably in the wrong manner...(how can I believe you weren't physical with ow if you can't seem to keep your hands off me...I would like for you to treat this r with the same respect..not that I don't want to be with you etc...h's response..I can't help it this is the way I react to you) well that was short lived..dwindled as the days and weeks went on because the reall issues (the lack of sex had been one of them for me anyway) were not being addressed. if h's relationship with ow..was not physical then it was not a physical r that he was craving but an emotional one...h was having a physical r with me..but leaving the emotional parts uncared for most of the time.
strangly h went from.."I'm enjoying the time were spending together and find myself wanting to run for more" it wasn't all about sex by seemed to always be there...even the second night that he planned to come to see "me" I purposefully wore sweats and didn't do much to make myself look good..we played a game of darts and didn't get to finish because h couldn't keep from kissing me..
how did a man go from following me around the house...wanting me to be next to him...holding me..etc..turn to this man who just doesn't know if he can be with me...who sleeps on the couch...who walks around me..who doesn't want to touch me in anyway..other than that obligatory peck when he leaves for work and maybe when he returns home??
it is not that h is not capable of these things...he is...he just doesn't know if he is capable of these things with me...and doesn't know why.
h has no complaints about my mothering skills...infact thinks I am a great mother..
h has no complaints about my wife skills infact thinks I'm an excellent wife..(think that refers to the fact that I cook, clean, take care of him and everyone else including myself)
when h does decide to talk about issues...we can communicate and the conversations sometimes last for hours...yes there are times we disagree...but we manage to get our points across and resolve things.
the issue is the "us" I don't want any more than your average person...I don't want to be doted on...I want a participatory r with someone...to be a friend to have a friend...to laugh and have fun...to share...to be able to touch and be touched (to not feel a fear of rejection)
I don't know if there is any hope for bringing those feelings back to h. there is no doubt in my mind or his that he loves me...the question is for him anyway and now for me is can he fall in love with me...
he gets frustrated because when he does talk about how he feels (mind you it's still not direct) he see's my frustration...how can I not be frustrated?? I don't get mad or angry or even say anything for that matter...he just knows.
I don't know...hell I don't even know if I'm in love with him...I didn't think it mattered at this point...knew I loved him and that was enough...now I question his feelings just as he does..and it causes me to question my own for him...
with two people who question this in love crap (and I do mean crap) how can they possibly get anywhere...
h is not an ignorant emotionless man...he just wants to be in love...he wants that feeling..that spark..that tingle..etc. I used to think I wanted that to but I grew up a long time ago and realized it was a part of love but not what it's all about..that if you want it to stay you have to work at it and I have been working at it for about 10 years. did I always feel like working at it..no but I did. how did I learn or know at that age that it takes work..well you see...I didn't grow up in suburbia like h..where people just stayed married unhappily doing nothing about it...I lived in the city where you either did what you needed to do or you got off the pot...sad to say that many of my friends were busy visiting their fathers on sundays but I learned the reality of r's then..and also by watching my parents...now my parents may have ended up divorced but they did work on the r..his parents probably will always be together but they might as well not be...they don't work on the r..both just wait for the other to change...
so then...h does know what he saw and experience growing up this way...but does realize that now things are different (well now for him not for me has always been my reality guess that's something you loose when you go for the white picket fence life) and that you do have to work on it...but for some reason....doesn't have the drive to??
this is not an answer that he will find...no light bulb will go off...the only one that did was to realize that he did love me..and that no matter where he'd be or who he'd be with, the kids and I would always come first...therefore he couldn't give himself to anyone else fully and that wouldn't be fair..so...
but then if he realizes this...what is keeping himself from giving himself to me (please don't attack that phrase I hope you know what I mean) it's the return of favor (even as h put it) I do for him..please him...speak his language etc..why is it so hard for h to speak mine..I'd tend to think it takes more effort to cook and clean for someone..to wash and fold their laundry..to get along with their sometimes difficult family (hey he sometimes just walks away from them...I don't) etc..than it would to give someone a hug..or play a game of card or darts or something like that.
what is in his way??? he doesn't know..."it's" just not there???
LL, let me ask you something, and please don't take offense. Do you think your H walks on eggshells around you? Is it possible that over the years you've accumulated a huge list of needs that have never been fulfilled that it is entirely too intimidating for your H to handle? That all he sees is a daunting list that can never be fulfilled?
I understand all too well about the water under the bridge syndrome. Like you and your H, my W and I were highschool sweethearts. I think this is unique in our sitches because those immature years are delicate. As such, R failures way back then (during that immaturity) set a tainted foundation in which to build a healthy R. Heck, my W still brings up stupid stuff that I did when I was in highschool! Both of us have been with our Ses through some significant life growth points: boy to man, girl to woman, man to father, woman to mother, etc. I think very often the crap from way back ends up festering and feeding the crap that's accumulated over all of the years. So, what does one have? A big pile of ##%^! So, what we need is a big pooper-scooper to clean it up.
My point? Is it possible for you to "erase" the slate for now (use the pooper-scooper), forget about all of the past indescretions, start your R over in effect, and ask him to give you the top three things that would make you feel better? Just say, "H, there are a lot of things I feel I need for this R to work, but here are the top three. If you do these three, then there's hope because I know that these will lead to three more, then three more...and so on..." At first they may feel "unnatural" to him and you, but with work, they will likely become more natural. But I think in order to do this, you have to try and let everything else go...for now...
