Almost a WAW

[Dom R]

Hi Sandy,
you wrote,

At first, I would cry when I went to bed b/c I needed to be held and loved....but I'm not doing that so much now. I know that some of you wonder why I can't just go into my H and tell him how I feel and ask him to hold me and to make love to me.....but right now, it would be like trying to do that with my brother...and I cannot force myself to do it.

i was wondering...
if you are lonely.. why are you not with your husband?
why dont you ask him to hold you?
Just hold you?

In my opinion, the most important thing you could do, for both yourself and your husband, is just to do that every night.
For your part, let him put his arms around you, close your eyes, and remind yourself that you are being held by the person who loves you the very most in this world, and that there is no one else who loves you even half as much as this man does.

God bless

[Dom R]

oh, ps: you make the analogy of "doing it with your brother or sister".
I think that is projecting something upon him that is not deserved.
a "long time friend" might be fairer.

In the case of a brother or sister, there is a specific reason NOT TO have sex with them. Whereas with your husband, you merely are "not attracted to him". There's a big difference between the two.
Unless there's something you're not saying? Unless there's some reason you actually feel a compulsion NOT TO have sex with your husband, rather than just not "having feelings" for him.

[sandi2]

Thank you Dom R,

You are probably correct in what you said about the "brother-sister" thing. I guess b/c that was what girls use to say a long time ago when I was a teenager (lol)....you know, he was like a "brother" to us and did not want to date him. Anyway, we have been married 42 years this December and the past 22 of those years he has chosen to fall asleep on the couch while watching TV. As first, I would try to get him to go to bed, but finally I gave up and realized he was doing what he wanted to do. When I tried to talk to him about it, he would use my illness and the fact I could not sleep well and that I used a lot of pillows in the bed, etc. But, it just sounded like flimsy excuses to me. He has always perfered to sleep on the couch....even when we were young and he would go to my bed and get sex, then he would get back up and sleep on the couch.

We have talked about our R and we both think we have fallen into this area of feeling "comfortable" and just lazy about working at it anymore. However, that is what led to my lonliness and that led me to the OM. So, it is not a good place to be.

As far as asking him to hold me.....I have pleaded with him when we were young to go to bed with me and told him all the emotional reasons that I needed him to do that. I have tried to explain that that would lead into the sexual part also....but he would not compromise with me and that caused a lot of hurt feelings and resentment that has been pushed way down over the years. I think it contributed to killing some of the "in-love" feelings I had for him.

No, I am not attracted to him sexually. He is not a bad looking man for his age, so it has nothing to so with his looks. I love him and care about him. That is why I compared him to a "brother". I have no desire to kiss him or for him to hold me. A few weeks ago we had some financial problems where I had accidently overdrawn my checking account. I just fell apart b/c I was so upset. I walked over to him and laid my head on his shoulder and told him how sorry I was.....and he put his arms around me and told me it was okay. However, I could have done any relative that same way......and, I wasn't wanting sex from him that evening, either.

It is so hard for me to try and explain. I'm sure it is difficult to see it from my point of view and people don't know WHY it is so hard to just "do it" and then, maybe.....hopefully....if you are lucky....the feelings may follow. Well, I did just "do it" for a long time, but the feelings did not follow. It was easier, however, when we would have sex on a regular bases and not wait for weeks and then him come in and "make the moves on me" b/c then I resented it and it was hard to get into the mood.

I prayed and prayed for years that God would "fix" me so I could be the W my H deserved to have. Finally......finally, I felt that a "break-through" was just around the corner when my H stopped! No word....nothing. Just stopped. How ironic! I was so angry.....but, I pushed it down inside and thought how ironic that when I finally get to the place he wanted me to be....he stops. But, I thought he blamed me b/c he could not "perform".....b/c he did not get sex regularly. So....it was always my fault...didn't matter.....I was to blame.

I even told him once that I would have sex anytime he wanted it and not to worry about being rejected. That was not good enough for him! Nope! He wanted me to be ....(excuse the bluntness) hot and horny. Well, I wasn't, but I tried to be "willing"....for his sake. But again, it wasn't enough for him. So, can you see how I felt like I just couldn't do anything right......in the sex department? I tried to read books and do all the little "fun" things to spice up the M that the books said to do. But, it still didn't seem to be enough for him. I think he wanted me to be the one to seduce him....and that is just not me. Never was before marriage and never was after marriage. It is just not my personality. At least it wasn't with him! And, he is the only man I ever had sex with. You know the weird thing? I could not do with him.....like I did with the OM on-line! That tells me something is not right! Where it was exciting to (again, excuse the bluntness) perform on cam to the OM.....I can't do that with my H.

So, I need counseling! That is why I felt like I was not in love with my H. That is why I questioned my R with him.

We are too old to think about D, etc. I am too old to start over....too set in my ways, probably. Today I am discouraged and think nothing will change and that I will have to accept this to be like this the rest of my life. I will never know what it would have been like to have an exciting sex life with another man. I will have to "settle" for whatever is salvaged from this M and just try to throw myself into church work like I always did.....my entire life.

I have said that I think I'm probably the oldest person on here. I have seen a few men my age post, but have not seen any women, that at least admitted to being 60. It seems rediculas to younger couples....for someone my age to be having M problems....especially sexual problems. (Probably turns some sick to their stomach to think about it...lol) But, it happens. Most people my age just won't admit it.

My grandfather had sex until he was almost 80 and got cancer. Guess what his biggest concern was? Yep.....that he couldn't have sex! It is a big part of us.....but I don't believe it is the most important part. It has been in the center of my mind b/c my H always made me feel guilty about me being frigid towards him. I have tried to figure it out for all these years, but I've never been able to. I was never abused or anything. Came from a wonderful family.....had a great dad, etc. So, nothing like that ever happened to make me feel the way I do.

Well, guess I have mostly "journaled" today. Thanks so much for showing that you are concerned. I don't have any close friends right now. I talked about that to my H the other night. I don't know why.....just don't have any close friends to hang out with....have fun with or anything. So, I need you all to talk with me and I appreciate it so much.

[sandi2]

Hey babybliss, guess what arrived in the mail today? I got the tapes....twice. Don't know how I managed to do it, but somehow ordered it twice. So, maybe I'll be twice as smart when I've gone through the "Light His Fire".

[GoodGuy]

I'm having fun with my S, took him roller skating last night and went to the water park today. But this whole week I've found I'm missing my W. I mean really missing her. But I'm sticking to my DBing, she asked me if I have a girlfriend yet, I told her NO, and she asked why since I'm only human. So I asked her if she had a boyfriend yet, she said no, I asked why, and she said you know me, I don't need one. (She knows sex has always been a pretty high priority for me, she wonders why I am not fulfilling that need). Any ideas why she would ask about a girlfriend?
My buddy came over the other night with a girl 10 years younger than me he knows from out of town (here on vacation) and I could have made a move, she was flirting big time. She kissed me, and it ended there.
I must admit it was nice, I didn't feel guilty until I thought about my W kissing some OM, then I didn't feel too good about it.
I guess I'm still searching for answers.
My W has been out of our house for 64 days (who's counting), and on Sept. 4th, it will have been 7 months since she dropped the bomb!
I have heard it takes 1 month of DBing for each year of marriage, therefore it would require 14 months of DBing, I wonder if that includes the 5 months we lived under the same roof in different rooms?
As you can see, I'm grabbing at straws.
I am taking my son with me over to a friends for a bar-b-q in a few minutes, he can swim with some other kids.
He is my whole life right now. My oldest son is 20, so I hardly ever see him.
I'll look forward to some ideas from you good people when I check back tomorrow morning,
Thanks.

[sandi2]

Hi GoodGuy,

You are a sweetie....and you hang in there doing the DBing. I am proud of you not giving in to the temptation of the young woman. I know it had to have been hard being away from your W and missing the sex, etc. But, I know you are still very much in love with your W and I hope that you can control that type of temptation b/c I would be leary of "rebound" relationships. To some people it would just be a one night stand.....but then you never know what is going through the OP's mind. Ever watch Fatal Attraction? (lol) Well, that was a little over the top to use that for an example, but you just have to be careful when you mess with people intimately.

As far as your W asking if you had a GF yet....and you wondered why? I can tell ya...since you asked (lol). Could be curiosity...plain and simple, however, I think it is a very good sign. Now listen to me sweetie...you guys get all pumped up over the least bit of encouragement...so I don't want you to go crazy here, ok? But, if she did not "care"....believe me, she would not have asked. The downside of that would be that she thinks you having a GF will let her off the hook (b/c you would loose interest in her) and get you out of her life for good. Hopefully, it is not that.

About the time slot for DBing, etc., don't even think about that....except to keep you from expecting too much too soon. I have also heard that there is a mimimum of three years in MLC...but I don't think that is true for everyone. When we realize what we are doing and really....really try hard to pull out of it, I believe we can. I also think I was sort of the exception since I was already over the hill of midlife....lol. I have to joke around and try to lighten things up a bit on here or this board would just get too depressing! Anyway, every couple and each individual is their own stitch and we can't measure it by a calendar. I have also heard some LBS say that if their S is not back in six months (or however long) they are forgetting them, etc. You just can't put a time allowance on relationships....not if they truly are important to you. But, I think you asked b/c you are in pain and are hoping that some mile markers have been passed. (((hug)))

One other thought about your W asking about a GF.....she may be watching to see if you go running after the women to satisfy your "needs" as she must have assumed you would. Maybe she thought she was just there to do that "service" for you. That sounds so harsh to word it like that, but some wives do think that is the only interest their H's have in them. Hopefully, she will see that you not are interested in other women for sex (or any other reason) b/c you still love her. Maybe that can help you to remember that when a "young thing" comes tempting you again.....and be prepared, cause it will probably happen.

[GoodGuy]

Thanks Sandi,
I just spoke to my W for about 15 minutes about nothing really, just chit chat. We seem to do more of that lately when she calls to say good night or good morning to our S.
We joke a little, keep it light, so I feel good about that.

One of the big reasons she left was because I like my adult beverages, she does too, but she has a limit, where I am like the energizer bunny, I keep going and going....I did quit libations for 5 or 6 months, but have been enjoying them again on weekends, a little during the week, but not much. That is the one big change I wanted to stick to, but have failed at that lately. She doesn't want me to eliminate drinking, but she would like it in moderation, that is something I have to work on.

Now lets talk about you.
You have made every reader on this board proud the way you want to work on your marriage.
In order to get yours back on track, I think you both need to do something out of the ordinary, to get that "he seems like a brother to me" philosphy out of your head. Have you ever been on a cruise? Just a 3 or 4 night one? That could help get the juices flowing again, because you can have a nice dinner every night, either by yourselves, or at a table with strangers that can get diologue going, a bottle of wine, a massage to relax both of you etc etc..
How about going bowling together, a picnic, getting a dog you could both walk, you know, couple stuff.
Does your H have any hobbies? Does he like sports? How about you, could he get interested in something you enjoy?
How about you send him over to my place so I can kick him in the a*% and I'll tell him what a lucky man he is to have a W who will stay in the M at all costs, while our W have left, and we are so lonely without them.

I hope you are right about my W asking about GF's, I believe she didn't ask to make me forget about her, at least thats my gut feeling.

PS Sandi: No, you are the sweetie.

[sandi2]

Dear GoodGuy,

Oh my gosh.....you made my day! Do you know I have been beating myself up today b/c I pretty much let a man, on the board here, have it yesterday! I seem to be doing that lately....by that I mean that I am sounding very angry. So, today I have been questioning myself about that and wondering why I feel this anger. I don't know if it is a stage that I have to work through or if it is something I need counseling about....I don't have a clue.

I had a great father....(grieved him very much when he died) and I was never abused by him, my husband, or any other man. My parents were close and were wonderful examples for me. So, I don't think it could stem from anything in my past.

I have started working with teenagers the past month at church and last Wednesday night and yesterday....I almost let my temper get away from me. (Well, they are little demons!) But, that is not like me to be that way. And, like I said, I've been somewhat sarcastic to a couple here on the board. I don't want to sound like that. If people had treated me like that when I came looking for help....I would have left and never returned.

I hate to tell you this after all the sweet things you had to say, but I do it b/c you show your concern....and that is what friends do. So, hoping that I have indeed made a new friend, I hold this out to you hoping you may offer any ideas. I hate seeing bitter old women.....oh God, I don't want to end up like that! Nothing is more ugly to me than a bitter, angry old lady!

The reason I thought it might be a "stage" or something I'd have to work through is b/c at first I felt very remoseful for what I had done....and then very embarrased to discover my grown D had known all the time what was going on....and then I had a hard time forgiving myself (still working on that one)....so I just wondered if this is another phase. I know I am probably talking outloud here, b/c I know you wouldn't know since you aren't the WAS. Perhaps you have read it somewhere and can tell me.

I think I need to forgive my H for his failure in meeting my emotional needs....that only he could fill. But, it is hard when he doesn't think he has done anything wrong. Perhaps that is why I am angry....everything has always been my fault (according to him)!

I agree with you about how we need to do something out of the ordinary. We go to work and church and that is our life! Ugh! Everyone needs more than that!

My brother-sister anology of our R wasn't a good one, but I was trying to explain how that I love my H but it is like loving a family member that you've lived with for a very long time. You love that person, but certainly don't want to have sex with them....well, that is how I feel toward him. It's awful. I don't want to feel that way, but I can't seem to change. Michelle says to just "do it", but that is easier said than done. But.....I promise....I am going to try to get the "brother" philosphy out of my mind. It sure would help if I could just feel a tiny bit of attraction toward him.

I was the one that always wanted to do the fun things....but could never get him involved. He doesn't have any hobbies, doesn't care for sports,.......nothing...but watch TV. Well, I finally got burned out on TV after so many years of doing nothing else. I used to try to just get him to walk around the block with me, but he wouldn't. If you have read my other posts, you saw where I've told stories of things I did when we were younger....you know, to put sizzle back into the marriage. Even though I was not that HD sexually....*I* was the one that would come up with the ideas to do fun things and to keep life in the MR. Well, after I got sick with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia....I guess I just got tired of always being the one to have to do it all and felt like he should put forth some effort if he wanted it......after all, he seem to think that "sex" was the life of the marriage. He never had an original idea in 41 years except to go get a motel room in a different town. Well, that was just the same recipe just in a different pot. (You like that? I just made that up.....lol)

Sometimes I think if I just had the physical energy again maybe I would have a different mental attitude. I'm sorry sweetie, I'm having a pity party and you didn't even ask to come...i just grabbed your hand and pulled you in anyway.

I really want to help others here on the board......I truly do. If nothing else, by my own mistakes and what I've learned over the years. Sometimes I feel like I've tried everything. There are days I feel as though I've read every book that has been written about M....(lol). I look at other couples that have been married as long as my H and me.....and some have almost a "dead" look in their eyes. I don't want that! I want to be in love.....I want to feel alive! I felt dead for 11 years and then I found the OM (God help me) and realized that I'm not dead on the inside! I am very much alive and still have desires that I dream of being fulfilled. I don't want to be like those other couples that don't have anything left to give or to feel. On bad days (like apparently today is) it scares the hell out of me b/c I wonder if there is any hope left for me and my H. Are we too settled in our ways? Can we still change? If I was teaching a class.....I would argue the fact that that is all a myth and anyone can change if they want to badly enough. But the key word is "want". And, that, sweetie, is what scares me. Do I "want" it badly enough?

Well, you can't answer that for me....I know that. Guess I've done more journaling than anything else. I needed a friend today and you came along at the right time (or wrong time for you...lol). Thanks, sweetie. Now, I'm having a good cry.....and you know us females.....that always seems to help us.

Now.....about you.....ahhhh....you didn't think I would get around to that, did you? If I drank.....and I may take it up any day...lol, I am sure I would be an alcoholic! If I ever took drugs.....I would be an addict. Well, I do take drugs....but you know what I mean. (The kind I have to take aren't any fun at all.) Oh....I better stop before I really make matters worse.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you to please be careful and remember that your body needs you to take care of it....cause trust me, we pay for it dearly before we think it's time to. Before you know it, you'll be 60 years old trying to tell someone 12 years younger than you......and pray they will listen. I'm certainly not going to preach to ya, but I think you are smart.....(yep, I have decided that)....and I think you will know what is most valuable in life to you.

Ok, so guess I'm through crying and *not* preaching (lol) and will let you go for now, but hope you talk to me again soon. Again, thanks for coming by when I needed you.

Everyone on here has been good to me and I appreciate that. We all need each other as we work through our problems. I'm here for you guys and I hope you will continue to be here for me, too.

P.S. I got the "Light His Fire" and have been listening to the tapes. Maybe they will get my light charged and blazing again!

[GoodGuy]

I'm looking for answers tonight Sandi, and I can't seem to find them. My W called tonight and I wanted so bad to answer the phone, but I let my S get it. Since I spoke to her for a while this morning, I figured I better not push it.

I miss hugging her, we did that quite a bit. I miss her calling me "honey", I miss a lot of things about her.
I don't know if she is going through a MLC, I really don't think so. But I know she was very angry with me.
She said some things that hit me pretty hard before she left.
I only called her a name once through all of this, about a month before she left.

My friends want to hook me up with someone, in fact my buddies wife told me Saturday night that she would feel great if she could be the one that introduces me to my next girlfriend!
My best friend asked me how long do I plan on waiting, and they look at me in disbelief when I tell them would take her back. They tell me she's left twice now, why would you want her back?

I know I'll be conncected to her forever because of our S. But I'm not looking forward to more time and holidays w/o her. We have already gone through Valentines day, our 14th anniversary, both our birthdays, and both the boys birthdays are coming up next month.

I will continue DBing, I will give her time and space, I won't talk about the R or our M. I will be her friend. But she never asks me to help her, I offered to change the oil on her car, but she refused.

She is about to lose her job, she works under the table taking care of a 90 year old lady, and the lady is going into a nursing home. She has always been there for my S when he got home from school, she wants to continue doing that, but I'm not sure she can find a job with those hours and still make ends meet, unless she wants to burn through the proceeds from me refinancing the house and our divided assets, she's got quite a few bucks in the bank from that.

I guess I can't worry about that. It's my job to take care of her, and I'm failing miserably at it.

Gotta go for now, talk to you later.

[sandi2]

GoodGuy......maybe you should consider changing your name. You may be too good for your own good. No, I don't believe good guys come in last......don't give up. But, I don't know that I agree about you taking care of her. When she removed herself from your home....IMO....she took herself out from under your responsibility. Apparently she does not want your help (i.e. the oil change) so I do not personally think that H's should be financially responsible for the W if she is the one that leaves. If the courts order it...then of course you have to, but that is my personal feelings about it. Why make things easier for her? That is not your responsibility. If you had left her and especially with a child,that would be different. I'm sorry, I have forgotten which one the S lives with.....having a senior moment here....anyway, I believe a dad should pay child support, don't get me wrong, however, in some cases where the W squanders the money away and the child does not benefit....then I think the dad should buy the food, clothes for his child, etc. and give instead of cash handed to the W. I see where you can't always do that under the court system, but I guess I'm trying to make a point here.

I know you still love her, sweetie, and miss her nearness. That is normal and it hurts like hell. But, don't rush into another relationship b/c of this. I don't think you are ready for the dating scene. People amaze me how they want to push a single person into another R as soon as possible. That is crazy and will open you up for all kinds of problems. Wait it out. You will know when the time is right.

Because you love her and your child, it is hard to let go of feeling responsible for her. You have not failed! Please get that out of your mind. The hardest thing I had to learn as a parent was for me to sit back and allow my children to make their own dicisions and suffer the consequences. You will have to do the same thing where your W is concerned. It will be so hard for you. But, she does not need to think she can depend on you for financial support. She cut herself off from that along with her decision to leave you as her H. If she got proceeds from the sale of the home.....then she got her share and that is all she should get. How she spent it was her business....but don't feel like you've got to help her out now. It is called "tough love" and it is exactly that....tough.

Let me tell you something. That is the first reason (not the only reason...but the first) that I did not walk away from my H. If I could have made it financially on my own....I would have left. However, I knew I couldn't and I did not want to have to live with my mother, so I decided I would have to stay....even though I didn't really want to at the time. However, during the days that followed, I found this board and I got help and then I knew I was going to have to make a decision about who I wanted to spend my life with.....OM or H. So, I chose my H. But, if I had not been sort of forced to stay here out of financial need at the beginning.....I probably would not be here right now trying to work on my M.

When you get lonely and tempted....do as I do and come here and read, read, read, and then talk, talk, talk. Believe me...it helps get you through many a night!

Take care sweetie.....we are here for you.