Retrouvaille vs Counseling

[25yearsmlc]

That's fine Sara, although I don't think challenging someone to take charge of their life when you've spent so much time posting, is the same as a criticism. And by the way, I am Catholic as well. I understand his dilemma but feel much more choice can be exercised within a M than simply leaving or staying. There is some victimhood going on too, and cannot be overlooked by any of us in our situations.

Maybe you can check out my thread sometime b/c I'm in "piecing" and there is much more hope to your sitch than you may realize. The story is too long to rehash here and it's your thread, so suffice to say that I'm a believer in DBing (and Retrovaille, and mc and marriage encounters and whatever the heck works for a couple) and that I doubt I'd be married without it. In fact, seriously, I am sure I'd be done and gone if I had not picked up the Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting books (I found D.R. a little better, imho).

I thought I had no choice b/c my h had left the home. I didn't chase him (couldn't have anyhow) or berate him but started the detachment process--HUGE and also, totally connected to forgiveness, meaning, without letting go of the harm they've caused you, you cannot detach. BUT that doesn't mean be a doormat nor does it mean you have to forgive overnight or never again look at the harm, but you need to put it aside for awhile just to function. At least I did. My h leaving really hurt so badly that it consumed me. So did my anger. For myself, for ME to survive, I had to somehow not keep staring at the pain and injustice of it all. So, detaching helped immensely. I also read some Marianne Williamson books on forgiveness, in which she has exercises for it. She can be too religious for some people, (Christian in general, but also discusses common themes with other faiths too) and for some people she is too "new agey". I just got a lot out of those exercises and doing the forgiveness work...which led me to start really GAL and eventually, I became stronger and even, dare I say it, "happier"? And guess who noticed things as I got stronger and more detached/distant/moving on? Yep, you guessed it. H started coming around within a few months of my moving forward in my life. No "proof" of a connection. I just know that no matter what happens from now on, I will be alright. I can be happy with or without h. I do love him, but if I had to, I'd make it without him as I did the past 2+ years.

And though our M is not out of the woods by any means, I'd have given us a 10% chance of staying M if you had asked me 2 years ago, or even 1 year ago. Now, I'd give us 2 out of 3. And if things continue as they are, that # will grow. But so you know, that's my time line. Over 2 years, although to my knowledge there was no OW. I know, that does make a difference. But on the other hand, I had nothing to compare my h's sitch to, b/c there was no OW but he chose to leave me and the kids for a .....job in Alaska???? I know, I know, MLC....still, so hard to comprehend. I now accept that I will probably not ever comprehend it, and that's okay. I don't have to comprehend all of his past choices. Heck, I don't comprehend all MY own choices when I look back far enough.

Don't give up. And don't confuse detaching/letting go, with slamming the door shut on a reconciliation. You can move on, and keep the door open, or at least, not locked. Keep on posting, and doing the program. It works.
j-

[Sara]

J,

I found your thread and read through a lot of it. I tried to post there, but it must be locked. You and your H sound like a very interesting, high-powered couple. It's good that you are back together. I hope that Alaska works out better for you this time. My own sitch is that my H and I are back together and happy together after Retrouvaille. It was what we needed to learn how to live life as a family, not married singles. That said, I really should go spend some time with him, as I am on these boards too much lately.

[DaveJ]

I envy you Sara. One day I hope I can get to where you are right now. In the meanwhile, I'll live vicariously through you to stay sane. :P

[Sara]

DaveJ,

Every situation is different. Perhaps mine was easier to deal with than most of the others I see here on the board. But for me at the time, it seemed like life or death.

I did not DB. I confronted my husband and demanded he stop the affair. I kept the children informed of the truth, and had them on my side. (Granted they are young adults.) And I threatened an expensive divorce. He was willing to give Retrouvaille a chance under the circumstances. We walked in the door, and Retrouvaille took over. Maybe that is putting it in God's hands. But as I am Jewish, and it is a Catholic program, I didn't see it that way. Still, God reaches us wherever we are.

My H did have a willing heart. He was not as attached to OW as most seem to be. He said he wanted to be appreciated in a loving relationship. If he could have that relationship with me, then that was better than with someone else.

So that will be my prayer for you Dave. That your wife will also have a willing heart. I will pray that she will be reasonable and see that having a good marriage with you is better than having a good marriage with someone else. I will be watching your thread.

[Contyankee]

God Bless you and thank you Sara. Everything you said is correct about how you see my situation. Friends and family have told me that I should walk away from her for a long time, even before this happened prior to June, 06. They have witnessed my wife's behavior on a number of occassions.

I've grown spiritally and have interior peace now that I never knew existed. I have changed with God's help for humans cannot change themselves. I used to complain about my health and there is a point I am making with this.

For years my left shoulder had pain and it has increased over time. I had arthroscopic surgery in 1989. Today, I cannot strech both arms to pick up something with weight, such as a blender on the 2nd shelf without pain. My right shoulder hurt too. Then about a month ago, I was experiencing pain on my left elbow. That got so severe, that my hand would go numb, fingers would get cold and my hand would begin to shake. It hurt from my right shoulder to my hand. Still, I said nothing or did anything until my dad noticed me move my arm suddenly on a visit at his house and I yelled in pain.

Now I am assuming this is due to over-extensive use on a computer as an accountant. So I surfed the internet and found some causes that it could be. I found tennis elbow, arthritis, tendinitis to a worse case scenerio of Lou Gehrig's disease.

Now I read each one and reflected on the least cause to Lou Gehrig's disease and how would I handle that. I prayed and meditated on it and it didn't take long for me to come up with an answer. First off I would accept what ever it was because to not accept it does no good anyway. I still had the problem. Secondly, I would resign myself to the Will of God and if that is what God Wills, I would rejoice in it too no matter what. I would offer this pain to God for the salvation of sinners. My confessor agreed with me when I approached him with this and it was comforting to hear that God is calling me to do something.

Last week I saw an orthropedist and after x-rays, I have arthritis and bone spurs in both my left and right shoulder and tendinitis in my right elbow. I do some exercises and ice it everyday. The doctor told me to take Advil or some other anti-inflamatory meds but becasue of problems with my digestive system, I can't because I would bleed from there too and I told him that. So he said I will have to gring and bare it and I said I know I do.

The doctor does not know that I have pain on the back of both my legs in the area of the knee cap, especially when I sit for long streches of time. Its not that bad and I can handle it.

I will probably not post to much anymore but will surf your site Sara,

God Bless you all,
CY

[Sara]

Feel free to post CY. The worst is past. We are not professionals on this site. Our opinions are just that, our opinions. Don't take any of them too seriously. If you want professional counseling and people who are accountable for their opinions, that's not usually offered for free.

[25yearsmlc]

Sara,

Sweet Babies!! That's my daughter's phrase for when things are "excellent" and I am so glad for you and your H. I have heard many good things about Retrovaille and believe me, if h and I ever go down the rough road again, and IF I can muster energy to do it, (sometimes I think DBing is a once in a marriage type of experience, if you know what I mean) I'd do Retrovaille in a heart beat. Frankly, I am baffled by someone who doesn't want a divorce, who refuses any type of help.

I also totally understand what you mean about too much time on the board. This is a very valuable outlet and without it, I'd be split up I'm sure. Having said that, it's also a bit "addicting" and can replace the intimacy we need to have with our spouses. So, on that note, I'll be going now. Anyway, congrats and welcome to "piecing". As I mentioned, for ME, forgiveness is a process but it's also mandatory. Some posts way back, I think one I wrote to Keepingthefaith (sp?) were about dealing with our anger. I will go re-read what I wrote, b/c I find I'm having a low tolerance (it's as if I'm thinking that since H "owes" me so much for coming here and putting up with his craziness, I ought to get everything else I want....yeah, I'm working on it...)

Don't know if that's an issue for you yet, or ever will be. But take care and keep on keepin' on.
j-

[Sara]

If you haven't give Retrouvaille a chance, then you should. It is only one weekend, and it improves the rest of your lives together. What else can you do in one weekend that will do that much for you?

[Lord Grenville]

I am very disappointed to report that my wife made her decision to not attend the New England region Retrouvaille with me, which takes place in 9 days.

We met with a divorce mediator for two hours on Monday evening, and I asked her in 2 or 3 different ways to consider attending Retrouvaille. Even though I emphasized the positive aspects of the weekend, she was convinced that it would be a negative experience for her and one that she could not handle.

I think the real reason is that she has truly convinced herself that divorcing me and being with the OM is the only way she will find happiness in the future. I believe she feels a lot of (Catholic) guilt about what she is doing, and she feels she is not emotionally strong enough to honestly dialogue with me and face the feelings that would come up.

She was crying a lot during mediation, especially as I was opening my heart up to her. Honestly, because of the OM, I did not expect her to say yes to Retrouvaille, but I have been praying and hoping she might agree.

It is so frustrating. I asked her to attend the last Retrouvaille weekend in March 2007, but that was the week she was moving out of our home into her new apartment. I was much more optimistic back then that we could work things out eventually, but clearly, she made up her mind many months ago, and has not wavered from the decision to end our marriage.

LG

[Sara]

Lord G,

I am sorry to hear that. You certainly have tried. Unfortunately, when a spouse is involved with OP and wants to move on, there isn't anything that can be done. If that relationship ends there might be hope, but right now you are stuck.