We can discuss the movie at length and that would be fun. There are several points of spirited debate I would really enjoy.
I welcomed your post. Your intentions were pure, I know that, but it hurt more than you will ever know. Point after point of my failure. But it is honest and it gives me the opportunity to write what I write below. Plus I pull out my 2x4 so I welcome same in return.
Except BBAnnie, her's hurts too much
You do make very valid points and I agree with them. I also appreciate you taking the time to read my stuff. You went way back, must have been fun
Everyone here most likely will disagree with what I am about to say, but I am in a very good place right now b/c I have accepted that my M is over. I have shut this off. I cannot do any more. I just do not have the energy to try to save this any longer.
I no longer care.
Someone once posted that when it is over you will know it. I know it. And as bad as it sounds, I feel wonderful about it.
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You're angry. It shows in your more recent posts.
I am DONE. I try to state what I feel in a factual way.
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You unplugged completely and, to all appearances, you lost any compassion for her.
True.
I don't care about her any longer. She destroyed my life, my identity as a man, she destroyed my family and scarred my children for life. I will not let her hurt me any longer. I cannot. I no longer wish to see her or to talk to her. I will have little or nothing to do with her except in the context of the kids. And the fact is that she has already made it clear she does not want my help there and by law she has the final say in all decisions (thanks to the law, fathers are not equal parents).
Don't take that to mean I will not be the best father I can be. I will learn to work with her and work well. Just as I learn to deal with people at work who are not concerned with my best interests, only their own.
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It was emotional disconnect. You shut down to protect yourself.
True again. That is what I have done. That is all I can do given where I am. I am not strong enough to do anything else.
For the first time in 18 months I feel secure. I feel safe, as though a load is gone. Yes, the "books" say I am just in denial, or kidding myself, or suppressing my emotions to the point of harm. I realize that and accept it.
I choose to believe that this is a valid conclusion and a valid decision. I choose not to be hurt any longer. I choose not to "STAND" (please don't get me going on THAT word) and I feel at peace with that decision.
Doing anything else means TO ME that I do not have the self-esteem to STAND for me.
Want to play Jeopardy? Psychological disorders for $100? The tendency to invite and enjoy misery or abuse in order to feel rightous, pitied by yourself or others, or admired for forbearance. The question is: What is masochism?
I will not try and try again. I will not wait any longer. I must move on - the clock is ticking.
I am also sure I have learned valuable lessons that I will use in my future relationships and with my kids. I am a better man. And I accept that I am also a failure. Your lenghty post frank clearly points out how I fuk'ed up again and again, how I did not "get it". I will try to use my journey for growth.
I am glad your stitch ended up differently. I hope I am the only failure here. Your stitch is more like mine than even FIB's - similar personality context, same addictions (work, booze, woman type), and similar problems. I hope I can say this right, your W had the OM - my W used the kids. The kids became her emotional crutch and I could not deal with it. You handled the OM so much better. That is b/c you are 10x the man I am.
------------ So I try to give my viewpoint when I see someone who has been at this for YEARS, someone who is clearly suffering with little reason for hope of saving their M, someone who is an outstanding person in all other respects.
I give that person an alternative to consider and "permission" to consider it. Even Michelle does that in her book.
I tell that person it is okay to end it. It is not wrong. In fact it may be the very best thing to do.
Other folks may say "don't quit". That is okay. Some "insist" - that is not okay (NOT you frank). I never imply that anyone must take my advice; I only say that it is okay to feel this way and it is okay to end it with your head held high.
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Jeff, I CARE. I have nothing but compassion for you and your wife. I am not here to judge you in any way.
Your lenghty post frank clearly points out how I fuk'ed up again and again, how I did not "get it". I will try to use my journey for growth.
No, it doesn't point that you f'ed up. It points out that there are opportunities that are subtle, and how to recognize them. And, that anger and fear STOP us from taking advantage of them.
That is not F'ing up. That is being frozen in hurt, anger, fear. When you're in that place, you're not allowing the WAS to even try to 'return'. I may be wrong, and Annie or Lissie can perhaps show more intuition that me on this, but I think your W still feels the love for you, but she can't get past the hurt either.
Lissie is right, it's ok to be done, just be a whole person again and learn to feel.
Your W didn't 'take away your identity as a man'. You had lost it on your own, just as I had. You can reclaim it whenever you're ready.
I also don't suggest that you 'take abuse' from her, or anyone. That doesn't mean you can't be more open and friendly with good boundaries.
I have something interesting to read that I could E-Mail you if you like. If you E-Mail me I'll reply with it.
To Jeff...my friend....let me make one thing clear:
-we all make mistakes, me included..horrible at times. We would be human if we didn't -history Jeff...we learn from history. Even you told me that we are NOT the same people we were when we married our W's -you didn't 'f' up Jeff, you...I...we DID lose track...we lost our focus.....we misplaced some manstuff
I admire you Jeff. You've been strong. You've been there for me. You STILL are there for me. It was not easy FOR ME..as your friend..to read thru frank_d's...but...I must read...I MUST LEARN...I must learn thru OTHERS. Even on my own thread, I read everything 'my girls write'..Lissie and BBA. Yeah...they swing a mean bat, but, I would still cut BBA's lawn and white wash her fence ANYDAY.
4kids..on my thread..wrote about guilt and resentment...how that has NO place in a real man's life. I agree. Choose to learn...as history....same for me. I know where I screwed up. I also know where I didn't.
Strength and honor to my Alabama Maximus.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Frank gave a pretty amazing synopsis of your situation. It took a lot of reading. I read through all that and I see some of my own situation in it. I had periods of indifference or going dark because I thought it was the right thing to do. I had moments of too much pursuing. There were hints that things could work out, but nothing came to fruition. As I look at this summary I feel like those things you complain about now didn't necessarily have to be. She reached out to you on what sounded like multiple occasions and those were opportunities to be her friend. But those things are water under the bridge and you can only move forward.
I would like to say that you still cling to, "she did this to me and our family", and it hardens your heart against her. Did she do this? Yeah, she walked away, but can't you understand why and forgive it? She thought it was right. Anytime she might have regretted the decision it feels like you didn't lower your guard enough to let her voice it. Whether you have given up entirely or not, I still think forgiveness and accepting that this wasn't an act of cruelty are helpful in moving on. Someone will be even luckier to have you if you've learned forgiveness, understanding, and compassion. Despite our best efforts, a time comes when we are hurt by our SO/spouse and it pays to be able to walk in their shoes and discover the ability to forgive what you think is unforgivable.
This is getting long and I still don't know if I said anything. It's your life to do with what you want, but I would have to agree that there is still a chance for your relationship, if you're willing to be her friend and nothing else. It doesn't sound like you want to, but that summary just gave me the feeling that there is something there to strive towards. She isn't the devil because she gave up on the marriage....she just wasn't as strong as you wanted her to be and she had a difference of opinion from you about how to solve issues in the marriage that she felt were unsolvable.
Last edited by Just_Me; 08/31/0706:55 PM.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Thanks Just_Me, I am not familar with your stitch but I admire your advice to others here. You have a good way of cutting to the main points. Thanks for stopping by.
Yes, frank_D made a good analysis and all I can say is thank you to him for taking the time.
You did hit in on the head - periods of indifference and periods of pursuit and periods of self-rightous where she should have come to me. I read all the books, tried to follow advice here, and tried my best, doing the things I thought were "correct".
It did no good. Nothing did. I disagree that she showed any signs of reaching out. You had to be there. If she tried to be nice it was manipulative to get her way. All she has done for the past 19 months is to move on without me and put me down.
Yes, she hurt and I tried to show compassion. But every time I let my guard down I got hammered.
I am stating facts. I can go through any stitch here and find "baby steps". In the end most turn out as wishful thinking by the author. We only get one side here - my words may have implied reaching out when reality was something else.
So I choose to turn off that switch. And I feel great. My interactions with others and with myself are so much better since I turned off this drama. The hurt is much less and she is finally leaving my thoughts.
On a different thread, frank_D wrote "I hardened my heart". That is very judgemental and negative. The fact is I have chosen to move on with my life without her in my life.
And that is okay. For some here "standing" is the only course, even if it means standing forever. "Stand" and you are strong - anything else is wrong and you are weak. They are "sick" after all. Someone even once said the OM is a "drug" for their illness and therefore that is okay.
Spare me. Please.
Don't believe that is a theme for some here? Just check the MLC forum. How judgemental, when we should be supporting each other.
I am here to tell everyone that "standing" is not the only course.
I do agree that forgiveness is the way to move on. That will come with time. I have given this same advice to others here many, many times.
But I do not have to be her friend to forgive her. Nor will I try be any longer. "We are in the business of raising children, nothing more." That is her quote, not mine.
"We are in the business of raising children, nothing more." That is her quote, not mine.
I don't know your W's history but you and her married 'late' in life and very soon had 2 kids. You said the kids were her world and you were put and left on the outside. Other things you have said made me comment to you once that it almost seemed that W wanted kids, married you, had 2 kids and got what she wanted from you, and she no longer needed to be married and 'share HER' kids with you anymore.
We can all look back at what we wrote and see how we could have should have done things different but in real time we can only react to what is happening at the time. I would like a redo on many of my interactions with H but even with all the fancy technology that isn't an option. I think the biggest mistake you made was moving out per your W's request. Then the 2nd biggest mistake you made was moving back home for a weekend and then back to your apartment. I understand your reasons for this, and I don't say this now to cause pain...I've said it to you before. Again, if we could rewind and edit and get do overs there's a good chance none of us would be here.
Being done is your choice. Being bitter is also a choice. Don't be bitter. It's a bad taste!
Just my input from someone who has read your sitch from the start.
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In the end most turn out as wishful thinking by the author.
OUCH. But I agree. I know that my frame of mind or PMA makes a big difference in how my posts come across or are perceived by a reader. It's so hard to capture the real feeling of each 24 day. But hey! you know me...I hope. Now I hope that my wishful thinking helps me keep going. Thank you for more insight.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
