Thank you so much for your prayers. I will do the same for you. Haven't approached my wife yet on this, have you? Sara gave me some good suggestions though on this.
Last Monday night, I attened our first divorce mediation meeting, that my wife had requested we attend. I stated that I do not want a divorce.
I expressed a need to understand better why my wife chose to end our marriage (without ever expressing any unhappiness with our relationship), and I said I hoped she could openly share with me what her unhappiness in the marriage stemmed from. These are things that she had not found a way to share with me after 6 months of MC. I still did not get clarity on this.
When my wife tried to say that she wanted a divorce, she physically could not say the word. She actually got stuck on the the first syllable twice, and finally whispered through tears the almost inaudible "D" word. I stated that I while I acknowledge that she feels that way, I would like her to consider attending the September Retrouvaille weekend, so that we could both improve our communication skills, and that even if we do not reconcile, we will be able to enter into future relationships with better abilities in connecting with future partners.
I asked her to think about attending - that she didn't have to decided right then. She is now visiting her parents and other relatives in Florida for a few days.
I am still debating whether I should give her a few more reasons to go to Retrouvaille. For example, I might say that if we spent the same number of hours that we would have at Retrouvaille, talking through the unrevealed/unresolved issues with our mediator/counselor instead, we might end up spending over $3000 with the mediator, as opposed to the Retrouvaille weekend which would be $550 for the entire weekend, including food and lodging for both of us.
I don't want to appear pressuring, desperate, or to be trying too hard to make her attend, so it is a fine balance.
I had asked her to attend the previous Boston-area Retrouvaille in March, which was the week before we separated, and I was careful to not pressure her at all, but she chose to not attend because she was feeling "overwhelmed emotionally". I said then that that was o.k., but hoped that she might consider attending the next session, which is this one in September.
Unfortunately, she is more "emotionally overwhelmed" now than she was in March, because she is facing a necessary surgery in few months, and she is dealing also with the illnesses of her mother, father, and uncle on top of our situation. That's why it may take the extra guidance from above to help her to choose to attend Retrouvaille with me.
Me 46 WAW 45 M 21 yrs
WAW: "I need to be alone" 12/06 W moves out 3/07 Mediation finalized 08/08
I have another question on this thread's theme of Retrouvaille vs/ counseling vs/ Divorce busting.
Over the past 7 months, my wife systematically shut down our marriage step-by-step, ending intimacy, then sleeping on the sofa, then separating, and now almost no physical touches of affection when we see each other except for the occasional brief "half-hug".
In following Divorce busting principles, I have not been saying "I love you" for many months, and I have also not been communicating affection physically or in other verbal ways.
So I am really having a hard time visualizing how in a Retrouvaille weekend, the emotional distance is bridged?
I guess I would have to say that the Divorce Busting strategies, like the Last Resort Technique that I have been following for a couple of months do not seem to be working, so I am ready to try another approach, but I am a little afraid that maybe turning on the "I Love You's" and clear affection suddenly at the weekend would sabotage the potential results of DB techniques that may need more time to have a cumulative effect?
Can you tell I am still second-guessing myself all the time?
LG
Me 46 WAW 45 M 21 yrs
WAW: "I need to be alone" 12/06 W moves out 3/07 Mediation finalized 08/08
That is a good question. I don't know how to answer it. Somehow it is the aura of the entire event. The obvious truthfulness of the presenting couples who reveal their pain to you, the use of notebooks instead of speaking to express yourself, the time alone to clarify what you are feeling, the focus on feelings not thoughts. All of that comes together to bring out a deeper truth than you are used to dealing with. There are plenty of tears at Retrouvaille. There are tissue boxes everywhere. I guess I would have to say that the truth, and knowing that you are dealing with the truth, brings you closer together.
That being said, it is also possible to understand the truth about your relationship, and realize that the marriage is not what you want for the rest of your life. That was the experience that PonyGirl had. But it saved her years of fighting for something that may have existed only in her mind. I don't want to put words in her mouth. You can find her threads by searching under her name.
Good luck. I hope you get her there. Just the fact that she didn't agree to go six months ago, and the sitch is no better now, is a good reason to give this a try.
And I agree whole-heartedly, Retrouvaille is a bargain. They can do it because they have the support of the Catholic Church, and all the presenters are volunteers. People who have been through Retrouvaille are so thankful for the experience that they give very generously of their time to help others.
Thanks for providing more insight into the process at a Retrouvaille weekend. Your thoughtful answers in this thread (and other ones too) have been really helpful.
Connecting on a level of truth and honesty is really what I desire with my wife, and it sounds like Retrouvaille would be the most likely way we might achieve that.
I did find PonyGirl's stories helpful too. They gave me a glimpse of a scenario which I might be experiencing. Time will tell.
LG
Me 46 WAW 45 M 21 yrs
WAW: "I need to be alone" 12/06 W moves out 3/07 Mediation finalized 08/08
Thanks for the kind words. I was out of town yesterday, meeting some of my friends from the DB board. It was wonderful to meet such insightful people and be able to spend some time with them.
I hope that you can convince your wife to give Retrouvaille a try. It can only improve your lives; I cannot see how it could make things worse.
I did bring the topic of Retrouvaille up yesterday with my wife but she is not interested. She thought it was therepy and I told her it was not. I said its presented by couples who wanted out so they have been there and it was 80% sucess rate. Then couples share with just each other privately. There is no group discussion. Sadly, that is not the direction she plans to take. She is waiting to get a full time position before she files so that is why we live in the same house. She does not love me anymore which I already knew.
She did admit she is a control freak and said she does not know who she is anymore, and is waiting for her oldself to come back. I don't trust you, etc. I have been hurt too many times, this is the 4th time. My family has been put through this too.
I said to her that I have been hurt too, but I have forgiven everyone (none will apologize because they do not see themselves as doing anything wrong). I asked why would you not speak to your dad sister or brother-in-law that after 17 years, I was exhausted of their remarks about my catholic faith. It was pure bigotry. I would never even consider talking against a Jewish person's faith, protestant, Muslim what ever.
Sara, just so you know, members of her family have told me off, put me in my place, corrected my grammar, cured at me, told me I do not discipline my children correctly, told me I should have a cat in my house (which we do), the list goes on and on. I have had to keep silent.
I told my wife that can you please speak to them and she just wouldn't do it.
I am prayaing for a miracle and hope God will answer my prayers that my wife will be converted. Being converted to God has to be God's will so I pray for that.
Thanks for your help but until my wife gets that chip off of her shoulders and not be so proud, the graces God is sending to her is bounding off like tennis balls.
I'm sorry she doesn't see the light. I know that you would very much enjoy the Retrouvaille experience because of your Catholic background. Just put it on a back burner for now. Perhaps someday she will see that spending 2 days working on her relationship with you is an investment in improving the entire remainder of her life.
Its in God's hands now so I have to put my Faith and Trust in him. In the past, we did try marriage counseling on 3 separate occassion but she would only go once, that't it, and I had to continue. She admitted in the past that she does not like to hear constructive criticism.
Even in the Bible, the Old Testament, I think in the book of Psalms or Wisdom, it says that a wise person can accept the truth and learn from it if they are being corrected. Only a fool and a proud person will not accept this. It doesn't say this exactly, I can't remember which verse, but it does say something like that along these lines.
So I continue to pray for my wife and her family who hate me. I will not loose my soul for them by hating them too. Besides, hate and staying angry like they are takes up too much energy and proves futile.
