So, here are a few things that stuck out to me by reading through my thread:
1) There has been a lot of push/pull going on. It seems like everytime my H has come closer, I've retreated and vice versa. 2) I haven't understood at all what my H has needed or wanted in this process. I often haven't been told and when he did think he told me, I usually didn't understand what he wanted and the message. 3) I had a really hard time not letting his moods and behaviors impact me. 4) There was a time period in January-Feb. where he really started coming towards me. We were spending time together, he was telling me things that bothered him, he said I love you, he was going to IC, and MC. But it was still a very very conflicting time and the words and actions didn't always match and I felt like I was on egg shells non stop and none of my needs were being met. After the months of abuse and the affair, I didn't have it in me to be his friend and not having any needs met. I pulled away when he started to come closer. I did it again just recently when he was ready to try being friends again. However, he also pulled away. As soon as he started to open up to me, he did really hurtful things (like stay out until 4 in the morning and tell me to f off), and then I retreated more. As soon as I started to trust, he seemed to do something drastic to push me away again. And even though he was doing these baby steps it was still a very disrespectful relationship. We did not tell each other where we were spending time, didn't eat meals together, say when we were coming and going, didn't count on one another. We were roomates, but kind of dating half-ass. I think I did the same... as soon as he started to trust me, I would do something stupid like snoop. Fears on both sides I think ruled a lot. 5) There has been a huge control fight through this whole thing. Even when I felt like I took myself out of the control war, then I felt like I was being a doormat. I couldn't seem to try and find a balance between sticking up for myself and not fighting for control, and not being completely disrespected and a door mat. 6) Often it has been after periods of silence that my H has come forward with his thoughts. He is an introvert, I'm an extrovert. When he shares feelings, it seems he wants me to just listen and hear them. When I share feelings, I want someone to have a conversation with me. 7) I have really allowed myself to be disrespected. I love him unconditionally, even when I don't like him, and I've made excuses for his behavior and treatment of me. I've allowed myself to be with him, sexually, etc. at times when it made no sense whatsoever. I'm a bit ashamed of that now looking back. I disrespected myself. I did not treat him to treat me well. Because he seemed sick etc. or because I in my mind was making him to be what I wanted him to be, or believing in him as my H, or as the man I love, I think I dismissed who he was being and allowed myself to spend time and give attention to a man that really didn't deserve that from me and that sent the wrong message.
Anyway, in the end, I'm not sure that these things really matter. What matters is more the other things I've reflected on lately, which is how we got in the mess in the first place so that I don't repeat those behaviors with someone in a future relationship.
Last edited by galing; 06/23/0703:36 AM.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Anyway, in the end, I'm not sure that these things really matter. What matters is more the other things I've reflected on lately, which is how we got in the mess in the first place so that I don't repeat those behaviors with someone in a future relationship.
Best part of the whole post Dana. Stay strong kiddo and keep that internal mirror working overtime. You really are doing great.
Been thinking this morning about the dbing process and how it can get skewed, I think.
The book Rebuilding talks a lot about loving yourself. How often when we are desperate for love from someone else or desperate for a relationship it is because we aren't loving ourself and whole in ourselves. Having your marriage ripped away from you is a huge blow. Having your spouse have an affair is a huge blow. In the aftermath, rather than loving and respecting ourselves, I think sometimes, we disrespect ourselves. I assume that was not the intention in Michelle's books.
In looking back in how I handled the last year, I think the thing that is sticking out to me the most and the thing I am most ashamed of is that I didn't love myself and respect myself in this process. I wanted my husband and my marriage back so badly, I was so wounded, hurt, in pain, and so beaten down by it all, that I was at times willing to accept that in whatever form it came in. I don't know that Michelle's books were written with the intention of helping people who have a spouse who really isn't mentally stable or is in total MLC, or in the midst of a deep affair, or abusive. Those are extreme cases and the person is often treating you with a lot of disrespect in that process.
I guess my point is, now as I am stepping back, I realize that dbing became very confusing to me. I often wasn't being true to myself and was allowing another person to treat me with disrespect. That is not what dbing is about, I don't think, yet I see if happening often on this site as people discuss how their spouse is treating them and their reactions and actions towards that and the interactions they still allow with their spouse.
So I guess my point is this, regardless of what your spouse is doing, love yourself first. GAL, get your PMA, and do treat your spouse with respect and love, but also treat yourself in the same manner and don't allow yourself to be treated disrespectfully or unlovingly. Control you. In the end, you are responsible for loving you, and respecting you. And in the end, you are who you look at in the mirror.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I wonder if the challenge is this. To truly db and detach, you must love yourself 100% and be completely whole on your own.
I would guess that maybe 2% of the people coming out of an affair, abusive, relationship with a MLC spouse are feeling that way at that time. Many people are not complete and whole at that time and can't handle dbing.
So, I think my advice to new dbers would be this. Take your time. After you find out your spouse has had an affair, realize it for what it is worth, a reflection of them, not you. Get space, get distance, be around people that love you and respect you and not those that are continuing to disrespect you and treat you unlovingly (if your spouse is). Yes, you helped lead to the breakdown of your marriage, but your spouse left your marriage and stepped over that line all on their own and that is about them, not you. Give yourself time to heal and come to terms with it. Give yourself time to realize your part in the breakdown of the marriage. Give yourself time to look at yourself and fix yourself. Stop worrying about the marriage in that moment because you are two broken people that need fixing on your own. The best thing for you BOTH is space. You are desperate because they have left you... but LOVE YOURSELF and give yourself time. It will be the best thing for you and probably your marriage to heal yourself first. Otherwise, you won't be able to 'db' anyway, because you won't be loving yourself and respecting yourself, instead you'll be a doormat and call it dbing.
That's my .02.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Dana - great post. I can sooo relate to this stuff.
Quote:
I wanted my husband and my marriage back so badly, I was so wounded, hurt, in pain, and so beaten down by it all, that I was at times willing to accept that in whatever form it came in
Ditto...
I imagine this is a normal part of the process and I'm glad you're able to notice this and clarify it as that will help others as well. Take care, girl!
Dana-- Sorry it has been so long, but it seems like you have come into some really strong insights.
I am working on exactly what you are writing about: becoming whole on my own. And I do think your point about developmental stages and growing up/rebelling applies to my H, and probably myself.
He has seen the problem in our R for the last 5 years; just about the time my kids were becoming more independent and I could get back to me, my career. I was growing. Is it his turn, now? Surprising that they would rebel against the ones who love them most, when we would be happy to let them/support them! It has been a control thing in our R, but it was all in his head--he thought I knew that I held him down/back. Every now and then, I would even ask him if he had called his friends lately, maybe go out with them, pick up a hobby or volunteer, etc. Maybe because it wasn't his idea? Or he wasn't ready?
You're right, it doesn't matter, as long as we are growing and learning what we want/need for ourselves.
My IC told me this week that, while it may have been appropritate to do so much for H at the beginning, now I have to turn the focus around and get back to me. If my behaviors had really been the biggest obstacle, my changes should have fixed things. They didn't; we're even further apart.
I am just glad that my H has been as respectful as he can be towards me. It certainly isn't every day, but the majority. And as hurtful as it is to be rejected physcially, I think hearing about what you have gone through puts it into perspective. I thought sex might bring some connection, but he doesn't want to without the feelings there. He saved me from that regret.
Anyway, thanks Dana, for sharing all of that to think about, D
I can remember back to not so very long ago when the bomb was dropped and my wife "wanted space" that is was such a total shock and also the fact that "space" or distancing ourselves from each other was so totally and completely the opposite of "working on our relationship" that I couldn't believe that is what she wanted or that it would help in an way, shape or form. We had been living apart for more than a year and had been emotionally drifting apart for years and now she is telling me that she wants MORE of the same in order to figure out if she is going to remain married, how preposterous that was in my paniced and uneducated mind! And even from what I did "know" it seemed like if we had grown apart from the physical distance and the lack of time together and lack of attention to our marriage that spending time together and working on our marriage would be something to improve it. So to have my wife come to me and instead of saying "hey our marriage is in trouble, we need to work on it, we need to spend time together and reconnect, we need to go to MC and figure out some better ways of relating to each other and fulfilling each other's needs for emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, then I'd have been all for it, in fact that is what "made sense" to me. Her asking for even MORE of what got us to the horrible state we where in seemed crazy and would just finish off killing our relationship.
Anyhow that is what my POV was, especially with my wife and where we were at the time, I'd been waiting for more than a year for her to quit her job and move up here with the family to where SHE wanted to live so that just added to the feels of betrayal. Plus here is the person that is my best friend, who I've always worked with and pulled together all these years when trouble or crisis faced up and she is telling me she doesn't want anything to do with me, doesn't want to work together on this problem, it was completely personal in that respect, she wasn't cutting anyone else out of her life, just me, because I was the problem, even if it wasn't 100% me personally it was because I was her husband.
Who knows what the "right" or the "best" way to solve our problems would/could be, maybe pulling together and putting our efforts into our relationship and each other would have be the perfect solution, maybe me giving her all the space she wanted and never pleading or begging would have been the way to have fixed it, I really don't know, because it takes two people it seems like the lowest common denominator is the one that rules the relationship since you can't make one person feel anything they don't want to deal with, so the other person is forced to the same level in the relationship.
I just want to clarify, I'm not just talking about feeling ashamed because I gave myself physically to a man that wasn't being respectful to me. Although for any women considering that, I think I would say this (now that I think I'm out of that emotional cloud and getting healthier): what are your values? For me, before I got married, I had only ever been with one man (my husband) because I did not wish to have sex outside of a loving and committed relationship. For some reason, I decided that because we were still married, we were in that type of relationship and therefore convinced myself that sex with him was okay. But the truth was, it was just sex, and I am not a woman who is okay with just sex. It doesn't fit in my value system and so I didn't love myself by doing something like that. Be true to yourself first.
However, I am talking about giving a part of yourself emotionally as well to someone that is disrespecting you by not loving you, appreciating you, being your friend, speaking to you with respect, etc.
Loving yourself, means at times, as much as you love someone, not letting them treat you. If they cannot treat you with respect, they maybe shouldn't be treating you period.
I guess I've been reading a lot about abandonment lately and what I'm concerned about is many of the phases I went through and I see people going through here are about dealing with that abandonment and maybe they are natural and normal and something we just all have to go through, however, it is important to respect yourself in that process and really be aware of what you are doing and why you are doing it. Love yourself first. Often, we aren't doing that because we are so focused on being abandoned that we are doing everything we can to stop that and fill the need of getting our spouse back.
The book The Journey from Abandonment and Beyond is interesting if anyone is interested. I skimmed a lot of it, but it does describe the phases well.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
