Stillme's Chapters Continue Some More

[SunnySeason]

((((Still))))

I would say, "Why WAS's feel the need to kick in the gut is beyond me!" But reflecting on when I was a WAW, this doesn't surprise me at all. I just wasn't quite as cruel as many of them on here. Remember, I didn't mean what I was saying, so keep that in mind.

You handled that so well!!

You might want to read my post today after my WAS gave me a little too much Alien Spew & I decided to give him a bit of his own medicine. It's one of those, "Don't try this at home", as It'Kat says.

Thinking of you & sending lots of positive thoughts your way.

L&L,
Sunny

[L21959]

((Stillme))

Just pulled a SUnny and lost this post, so let's try again...

You are one strong woman; that was real grace under fire...

And you were not late in replying to me on me thread; good points that i will digest and get back for some further input later today. H et al don't return until late tonight, so think it will be a day or so before this takes place...

Just wanted you to know i'm thinking of you...i especially liked what you said to your H about D and your thoughts of M with him. I feel the same way...guess that's a convo for another day...

L

[stillme]

Thanks for the hug-thought Kat. Detaching, tho, is a beautiful thing. Wish it could be bottled. I could be an addict.

And thanks for the prayers, JDK! They are always a good thing. My list (including you) is getting so long, I'm afraid I fall asleep before I get to the end of all my invisible friends here that I want to lift up in prayer every night. (And maybe you &/or others will find this helpful. My Pastor yesterday gave this website out as a very good men's daily devotional site (tho, o/c, good for women as well): josh.org It's on my list of things to check out as well.

H went outside ot mow the lawn. At one point he must have stopped very near D's room and, tho I heard the rumble of his voice, I made no attempt to quiet D or try to listen in as D & I were sitting on the floor underneath her (closed) window playing the 12 Dancing Princess Game. More detaching, I guess; or not snooping? Whatever - wouldn't have prolly disclosed anything I didn't already know or would care to know.

When he finished & came to D's doorway, he was casual & friendly. (lol), asked if I had any plans for the day ("Not until 6:00.") & did I mind if he went to the gym for an hour or so & left the kids w/me. ("No, that's fine.") Prompted D to tell me what they did yest. & when he said "None of her clothes fit." explaining why he felt the need to buy her 2 bags of clothes (She had already told me this. The girl does love her shopping! lol), I said "Well, none of the clothes SHE CHOOSES TO WEAR fit b/c they are last-year's clothes. If she would wear any of the drawer-full or closet-full of clothes for this year, they wouldn't be too tight or too short. Huh, D?" H obviously didn't know this. I said, "You can buy her clothes, of course, but she's reaalllly picky [pinching D, who squeals] lately and will not wear shorts, will not wear capris; only wants her fav 2 skirts & a couple of tops." [more growls & poking at D; H is smiling now]. Then I repeated that I'd told D I wouldn't buy her anything else and was gonna hide away all her last-year's stuff & she could either find something else to wear or go - and she interrupts w/ "butt nekkid?!" & I pretended outrage at her word-choice ('potty' words are suddenly cool w/her but she - mostly - uses them to get me to play-fuss w/her). He says that that's a good idea, & he's very relaxed & smiling.

Then H said (not asked, tho, again) something about copying pics [from my computer] onto adisc so he can make [his own family - prolly w/o me] albums - Ouch! but only a tiny one cuz Detaching still firmly in place). We talked about that a bit, and he offered (again, like a good friend would) to bring back a thumb-drive to copy the pics from S's computer (when mine was crashed) cuz it doesn't have a copy-to-disc capabilities.

We'll see what version of H comes back this afternoon.

[stillme]

Dang time-zone things...Sunny, just saw your post slip inbetween the others! Thanks! more later.
j

[Nomopo]

Thanks for all the updates still. Great stuff. Good journaling, and you're handling it perfectly. I believe your H is likely the hardest nut to crack (except for those nuts that simply won't crack, cause I think yours will eventually - really).

*sigh* H just did another "Can I talk to you outside?".

Hey, is it positive or negative that he brings it up? Why does he bring it up? He can't be too far gone IMHO. He is not doing what someone who really has moved on and made up his mind would do, which is just file and serve the damn thing and decide on his own about the Ls vs mediators, and all the other details.

He siad "Not if you don't contest it & we go down to file it together." I said (and part of this is new for our Talks) "I will not do this WITH you, J. I will NEVER file for D myself, and I will not say this is a JOINT agreement. D is your decision, and you have every right to make it, but it's not one I agree w/, want for my life, or think is warranted for our situation. I would pay as much money as L's would charge, and then some, to re-create a Happily-Ever-After M w/you." H: "What's that mean?" Me: "There is alot that can be done to fix what went wrong w/us, and give us a wonderfully loving & respectful M. I want that kind of M -" H: "With who? Me?!" Me: "Yes. I want that kind of M for me, and I want it for you, too." H: "Well, that's not going to happen." and I think this is where he tried to get it back to L's & money. . .and after a pause, he said something like "Well, I guess it has to be L's then." and I gave a tiny little disappointed squish of my mouth, turned & went thru the door into the house.

I am so glad you got this in, and it sounds perfect. As ugly as things have been, I'm glad you made these points in a non-ugly R talk. Of course, expect the predictable push/ugly stuff at some point (hopefully not), so you're prepared.

OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE NOT HERE YET, but I have to wonder what he would do if one time you said, "Fine. Go with the Ls. Let's divide the assets right now, let's do it! You want a D, you got it." Personally, I think he might cave.

Hugs,
Nomopo

[stillme]

Originally Posted By: stillme
*sigh* H just did another "Can I talk to you outside?".

Hey, is it positive or negative that he brings it up? Why does he bring it up? He can't be too far gone IMHO. He is not doing what someone who really has moved on and made up his mind would do, which is just file and serve the damn thing and decide on his own about the Ls vs mediators, and all the other details.

It's positive that he brings it up. But it's negative in that (yeah, assuming, but I DO know how the man thinks) he only (or mostly) offers the choice so that, if agree that Mediation is the better way to go b/c it's an implied that I will "work w/him" (ie., consider that HE knows how do D best), feels pretty darn confident that his D-Plan will be acknowledged by all (He STILL thinks a Mediator will "tell me" how it SHOULD be) and, if I throw any kinks in it (by, say, arguing that alimony IS warranted; or that a 50/50 custody split is not reasonable, really possible, nor legally done - at least in FL - anymore), the Ugliness will then be MY fault. I cannot win here, and i know it.

hy does he bring it up? He wants - probably NEEDS this to be a Joint thing b/c of the kids (how he's perceived now, but esp later when they are older & can understand who "did" it), b/c of family/friends (same thing - appearance is very important to him; and, really, he IS [was] a basically Good Guy); he wants/needs to feel like he hasn't "ruined" my life. If I make this or any decision W/him, that burden is lifted from his shoulders. No doubt there's alot of the feelings/thoughts that I have/had thru this and the idea of D'ing thru a "sit down together" Mediation rather than an ugly L/fighting in Court thing helps to ease those feelings: sadness for the failed R/M, guilt, anxiousness, fear etc.

Finally, if we had even $10K cash in the bank, I positively know that he would have taken some of it to a L already & started the process. H is so financially, I don't know, "responsible"?? that he cannot/willnot/does not WANT to go into debt for this D. (And, if he hasn't seen a L, he doesn't even know the worst of it I'm afraid.) Since there is no savings, and since I don't have the steady or higher income (yet), he will (maybe knows this) most likely be asked by me to pay MY L fees as well. OMG! This is something he cannot get around in his head.

On a more pos. note: It's true, I believe, that he has not "really moved on" in his head. But I think the main thing holding him back is the $$, not any feelings or thoughts about me or our M. He's showing signs of getting back into life (gym sev times that I know if; doing jj tournaments, if not actual classes b/c of his knee; helping to coach the boy's jj classes; even went out w/the guy to the sports bar 3? wks ago to watch a UFC fiht), but still puts most of his efforts (aside from his time-demanding job) into the kids. He does not Act "gone" in his head or his heart (OW/suddenly getting a night life or whatever), but that's not to say he's not planning & looking orward to it. (I do remember he told me soon after the D-bomb: [in tears w/real anguish] "Sometimes I wished I COULD just DO something so that you'd realize how much I'm gone & you'd have no hope for us anymore." I have NEVER asked a "Is there someone else?" question, but it was in the 'I haven't felt loved in such a long time' context of the convos.

It's all so sad - and you're right. He is a hard nut.

Thanks for the input & support everyone. It sure does mean alot. I'm off soon to teach a session. Will check in later.

[Nomopo]

Finally, if we had even $10K cash in the bank, I positively know that he would have taken some 10K of it to a L already & started the process. H is so financially, I don't know, "responsible"?? that he cannot/willnot/does not WANT to go into debt for this D. (And, if he hasn't seen a L, he doesn't even know the worst of it I'm afraid.) Since there is no savings, and since I don't have the steady or higher income (yet), he will (maybe knows this) most likely be asked by me to pay MY L fees as well. OMG! This is something he cannot get around in his head.

That is very hard for me to relate to, that his sole motivation here (in not making the D happen) is saving some money.

On a more pos. note: It's true, I believe, that he has not "really moved on" in his head. But I think the main thing holding him back is the $$, not any feelings or thoughts about me or our M.

You may be right, but I just can't see it that way. And in any event, I surely hope not.

Hang in there kid,
Nomopo

[Gone Dancin']

stillme,

I agree with Nomopo in that H's not filing can't all be about the money, and I think that you see this too -- it very well could be about all of the other factors you mentioned too: not being the bad guy to friends, family, the kids, etc., and not feeling guilty about ruining your life. There may be other reasons that haven't been realized yet, but these all seem like a probable combination.

Great job during your convo with H when you mentioned why you wouldn't file with him -- super great work in the clutch! I wish I could think so clearly on my feet like that! You are an inspiration!

I'll get back to you on my thread soon regarding your post about my unfiling...

GD

[L21959]

Still (and Nomopo) --

You said to me once that I was married to your H...ditto!! My H has said he thinks we should take care of all this by ourselves, and then just get a lawyer to file it for us (and H is getting "help" from his 'friend/OW' who is an attorney going through her own divorce!!)

But for my H, it all kind of fits in with his IMHO fairly naive 'plan' of how this will all work. When he was in major spew mode during the blowup over me staying in the house, he said, "You'll get your mediator...since everything's going to be a negotiation...i'll probably get stuck with all that debt from Ireland" (and i'm sure he will, given our relative incomes, his larger 401K, etc, and the whole equitable division of assets business...WTF?? What state is he living in?? Methinks the state of denial!!)

I think you both have a point here...

Originally Posted By: stillme
Finally, if we had even $10K cash in the bank, I positively know that he would have taken some 10K of it to a L already & started the process. H is so financially, I don't know, "responsible"?? that he cannot/willnot/does not WANT to go into debt for this D. (And, if he hasn't seen a L, he doesn't even know the worst of it I'm afraid.) Since there is no savings, and since I don't have the steady or higher income (yet), he will (maybe knows this) most likely be asked by me to pay MY L fees as well. OMG! This is something he cannot get around in his head.


That is very hard for me to relate to, that his sole motivation here (in not making the D happen) is saving some money.

(Okay, so I have some work to do on figuring out the 'quote-within-a-quote' thingy)

It may not be the real, deep-down reason...his actions seem to indicate to me some real "convincing himself that he's right" behavior... but I can certainly imagine that that's what he thinks in the moment is the reason, since he's such a 'responsible money' guy...

Okay, i'm off to work on a response/further questions to your post on my thread...Nomopo, come play at my house soon!

L

[Nomopo]

There may be other reasons that haven't been realized yet, but these all seem like a probable combination.

Nick, I assume you mean realized by still's H, right? That's how I took it and that is what I think.

Nomopo

PS - L, see you soon!