I was expecting this as well. Sorry big guy. Sigh.
This is nearly word for word what x-OM IMs were in one exchange. He said to the effect of, "you need to tell him. It's been long enough." And her response was that she didn't want to hurt me and that I would be left out in the cold.
Yes, hurts like hell to think someone is lying to your face but she is like thousands and thousands of women/men who decide to engage in affairs. They are not themselves. They are enslaved by attraction, fun, mystery, and, frankly, danger (being caught sneaking around etc).
She is only human. She has a high high need for someone to validate her and you have stewed and said things to us like you didn't care what she did with whom as long as she calls you.
This is what made me so mad in your Alpha thread asking how to verbally respond to her staying out till 2 and is what dragged me out of my SSM hibernation to try and get you to be more proactive; since NOP and I could see she was highly vulnerable to an A a few months ago.
Lecture over. Now let's get to work. NOPkins has as good as advice as I have seen on this site. I have your back as well but I'm afraid I have too much going on IRL to give you the day to day help you may need.
That's why you're in the right place with so many of us who have gone through this kind of wringer. Sharpen your pencil. You are going to be a student of the anatomy of an A, regardless of its severity-- EA, PA whatever.
Trust me. If I knew this site before x's A I would have not felt as I had -- completely alone in the world and hurting like hell. And I F'd up my responses as well by being all over the map emotionally.
You can do this, Choc. I see a guy in this new thread that I have not recognized in all of your past threads. A strong man's man who is not willing to let your family go down without a hard fight.
More deep breaths. Detach from the outcome of what you fear might happen with your W's fog. Focus on the present. Today is no different than what was happening last week. It takes a long time to turn around an aircraft carrier that's been headed in the wrong direction for all this time.
Buck up, man o steel. You've got the upper hand already. X's guilty conscience is what made her end the A on her own and come back to me before I had enough evidence. And this despite my damndest best efforts to do all of the horribly wrong things to win her back.
of course I was still in the dark when OM called me, lashing out over being dumped, and opened the can of evidence worms a few weeks after she left him. Thanks, buddy. Made my life sooo much harder.)
All to say that you can deal with this, Choc. Don't suffer that your W willl be telling you lies. It's purely out of self-preservation instinct.
It actually shows that she still values your family in a very hard-for-you-to-see way. I've seen in her emails to you the evidence of this and IMO she has not lost her love for you. She is merely listening to what her feelings are telling her, which are about as much as an unreliable source as we humans can have, frankly. Fog-cutter time.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
PS. I just wanted to urge you not to compare the possible extent of your W's EA or whatever it is to my story, Choc. All A's are like snowflakes, crappy ones, yes, and x has a FOO that would terrify most weak-willed men. It's not what's important.
I will give you some more insight as to the F brain for you to feel hopeful:
After her A, of course I interrogated x eight ways to Sunday about it. OM has a 180 IQ and worked for Army Psy Ops, if that gives you any idea of what I was up against. But I whipped his azz with zero guidance while often even doing all the wrong things at one point in my seat of the pants state. She soon realized I wasn't the bad guy he portrayed me to be through his twisted manipulations. She said she felt a strange sense of excitement that she and OM were caught up in a game; a game IMO he devised and knew she would find exciting.
Again, it all goes to misguided "feelings." Take heart. Win her back and decide where to go from there.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
Unfortunately NOP's is right, cheaters lie...it's part of infidelity, whether it's EA/PA. It's very rare that a cheater will come right out and be honest when asked questions, or even when they are confronted...very rare. They live in what's called the "fog" where they rewrite marital history, justify their actions, and often allow other people to influence their decisions (OM).
I cannot tell you how many times I asked my H to be honest with me, how many opportunities I gave him to come clean....and he lied to my face every single time until I confronted him with irrefutable proof. To be honest, I think for me the fact that he would so blatantly lie to my face was one of the hardest things for me to get past.
To give you some heartening news, the reason your W "cant" tell you the 'truth' as OM sees it is because its not her truth.
She is going to say things to both of you to hold on to both of you. It will infuriate you, but focusing on things like credibility and how she is not doing what you want her to do, etc is about control and possession. You want her to see you care about her, and only her feelings are going to tell her that.
She is hiding it because she is afraid of the consequences. If she didnt care she would throw it in your face.
At this moment the only thing to concern yourself with is you. You have to get ahold of yourself and make a decision, about what you want. Take the time. Give yourself the space. Your emotions encouraged you to be indifferant. They were wrong. They are going to slap your sensible choc self around without mercy and encourage more mistakes. Dont do it. Sit still.
What a farkin' roller coaster ride. Kudos to you on this:
Quote:
But I WILL fight for you, and for our marriage, and for our family.
It doesn't get any more man o' steel-ish than that.
I agree with Nop, of course, on the 'settle down' aspect of not confronting her yet. Be there for your daughter tonight...it's a big night (my son's big night is next Thursday, so I know of what I speak). Don't make your daughter's memory of her high school graduation be of the big fight mom and dad had that night. Let it be what it should be - a drug and alcohol addled fog of barely remembered hedonistic celebration.
High five, to you, my brother in arms.
Hairdog, who, btw, was a lucky ba$tard this morning.
I cannot tell you how many times I asked my H to be honest with me, how many opportunities I gave him to come clean....and he lied to my face every single time until I confronted him with irrefutable proof. To be honest, I think for me the fact that he would so blatantly lie to my face was one of the hardest things for me to get past.
I honestly don't know if I CAN get past this. More than anything else, this kills me the most.
Choc, you have to listen and focus on you and what your goals are. The A sucks big time. A lot of us here know first-hand. I'm still dealing w/ the aftermath of EA's, one-night stand BJ's, etc. It sucks, but if you want to stay w/ your W and make things work, first you have to decide to forgive and the trust, etc. will come slowly. You need to deal w/ the A, whether it's EA or PA, doesn't REALLY matter in the big scheme of things. But right now, you need to focus on family and getting to work on getting your M back on track. The other will fall into place as time goes on and issues are dealt w/.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Thank you all for your words of encouragement and advice this morning. An update:
Mrs. Choc. and I ended up talking last nite for about 2 hours. We talked about a LOT.
She talks a lot about the expectations that she feels are put on her, and how people "put her on a pedestal." That she's "not as good as everyone thinks I am," stuff like that. This goes back to when she was a CHILD, even, and has continued and she feels like her parents and me, mainly, "make her out to be better than she is." It scared me a little, and certainly concerned me, that she feels this way -- that she's not a good person. (Remember, I had given her a Valentine's Day card, and wrote something really nice in it, and she said "You make me sound better than I am.") It's almost like she has this self-sabotage wish whereby she longs for something that she KNOWS is stupid, impetuous, and dangerous, just so she can show everyone "see? I'm not the person you thought I was," and bring herself back down to mere mortality so she can live her normal life in peace without so many expectations.
She said she feels smothered, that she's constantly being questioned about where she's going, when she's going to be home, who is she getting text messages from (apparently the kids have noticed that -- great), etc. In fairness, our kids -- esp. the girls -- DO constantly call us when we're out, with unimportant questions about when we're going to be home, etc., something that I often admonish them for but Susan has always said "I always want my children to feel like they can call me."
We talked a LOT about this wall that she puts up around her, and if she knows why she does it. Why she pushes me away, not just sexually and not even just affection-wise, but even emotionally. She says it's a defense mechanism, to which I said "What is it you feel you need to DEFEND yourself from with me?" Hmmm -- I'd never asked her THAT one before. She tried to think about it, but said she didn't know. I asked her specifically if she's afraid I will either hurt her or leave her, and she emphatically said "no," and I told her I just don't understand then. That I "get it" if a spouse feels like the other spouse has one foot on the platform and the other on the train, that they may feel this need to "hedge their bets," emotionally, and not fully invest themselves into the relationship, but she says she doesn't feel that's it with me.
I shared with her, more fully than I EVER have in the past 20 years ... without being mean or beating her over the head with it, but using words like "this is how it makes me feel" and all of that... the intense hurt that I have felt from her rejection.
She's confused.
And she does NOT like to talk about things, esp. BIG things. Big, UNPLEASANT things. She says it scares her, and that "I don't like to dwell on things that make me sad."
In short, SHE HAS ISSUES. Issues that go WAY beyond me, but that are obviously affecting me, our marriage, and our family. She is still willing to see MC, but I still don't think she's sincere in wanting that to SOLVE anything, but more to relieve her guilty conscience so she can say she tried.
I don't know why she does this, but it sure has taken its toll on our marriage, and on me.
I did not tell her that I knew about the cell phone or text messages, but I sure targeted my conversation as if I did.
It sucks, but if you want to stay w/ your W and make things work, first you have to decide to forgive and the trust, etc. will come slowly.
That's just it. When I thought she was being honest with me, "wanting to stay with my wife" is what I wanted. When faced (and punched in the gut) with her lying and the words of her feelings for the OM, I'm not sure at all if I do.
How do I reconcile that?
There's this voice in the back of my head that keeps saying "You fool! YOU are the one who's been sex- and affection-starved for most of your marriage, NOW she's cheating on you, and YOU want to SAVE THE MARRIAGE??? What a joke!"
I'm sure there are a lot of suspicions running through your mind right now, like "is she finally talking just because she thinks it will deflect suspicion away from OM?", etc.
There really are. Mainly, it's that she's only going thru the motions so she can relieve her guilty conscience. Her loving and her kindness towards me, as expressed in her e-mail that you all commented upon, I actually interpret as just a veiled "You deserve to be happy/it's-me-not-you" thing, and her pulling away. Were she really still invested in my marriage, I would have expected more RAGE.
