Question for the Alpha Males

[OG_Lou]

Choc I did not care one whit about how she feels about any of these other, younger guys.
I'm not saying that's right or wrong, or even healthy, but it's just how I feel.

I read you do care but something is blocking you to do anything about it. Conflict avoiding? Fear of rejection? It’s been bad for so long, why bother now? Something else?

Choc, I see she might have been holding out on you and now you are holding out on her.

I also relate to what NOP said, wanting her to be the bad guy or you not being the bad guy (it's her fault mentality.

With my R, I lose interest because of the lack of progress or when progress only happens due to conflicts. Sometimes I see myself heading down a road similar to yours.

I also think when you don't want a sexual R with your W, in some ways it is depriving her of some form of validation and other things she needs. Maybe she appears not to want a physical R with you or anyone, but I wonder if that mode of operation is causing her long-term problems?

Women that like to be chased but not caught. Is that your W on the outside, but different internally?

BB likes me chasing her but has problems when I catch her.. Once in a while she openly likes being caught. When I don't chase BB, she isn't happy. Are Mrs. choc and BB similar? I don't know.

I can't help but think Mrs. Choc likes to be chased and maybe some day someone is going to catch her. Then what are you going to do?

If someone had a magic wand where there were no problems afterwards, what would you like?

1. No wife?
2. A composite W consisting of traits something similar to Karen, GEL, someone else HD?
3. Keep things as they are?
4. A W with a lover, but not you?
5. An asexual R?
6. Your ideas?

While I see NOP’s ideas a bit drastic for now, due to my lack of knowledge in this area,, he has some insights that can quickly become reality.

One of his ideas I do relate to and that is not wanting to be the bad guy.

Just my thoughts Choc. I only wish you well and Mrs. Choc well. I can imagine you are both hurting.

Lou

[NewJourney]

Okay, what is a MILF?

[cac4]

Okay, what is a MILF?

Mom I'd Like to Fcuk


a 30, 40, 50-something woman/mother who is still a real "hottie".

(you know...like my W. )

[NewJourney]

Ohhhhhhhhhh.

[chocolateeyes]

Hi Cobra,

Here's my answers to your questions:

Would you lose sleep if your best baseball buddy said he would call to let you know he got home safe from some trip or outing, then didn’t call? Would you be pissed over that? What if it where your mom, or dad? Would you still feel the same?

"No" on the baseball buddy, "Yes" on my mom or dad. On my worst day, I still care deeply about my wife's well-being, so yes, I was concerned about her.

I honestly have zero romantic attraction to her anymore.

Your emotional response does not square with this statement. If you truly do not care, then I don’t understand your reaction. People do not get pissed or lose sleep over these types of respect issues. No if it is some type of battle over pride, ego, or something like that at the office, I can understand, but even then the emotional reaction is different.

I think you are detaching from your emotions. You need to ask yourself if this is true, and if so, why are you doing that. It sounds very passive aggressive and victim-like to say you don’t care for your W, then get upset if she doesn’t show concern for you.

Are you sure you wouldn’t LIKE to care for her, if she would only first show some concern for you?

Yes, that would be my first preference -- to feel more of a romantic attachment to my wife, but as you say, the resentment has built up so much that I would only feel that way again if she would first show some concern for my feelings, and the damage her rejection has done to this relationship.

Finally, I'm not seeing where my statement doesn't square. I have no romantic attachment to my dog, but I still get pissed off when he runs off and I get worried that I don't know where he is. I don't have a romantic attachment to my assistant at work, but I respect her, and care deeply about her and he family's well-being. I do understand what you're asking, and while I was laying there in bed last nite waiting for her to call/come home, I did have several "gut-check" moments where I asked myself "Why am I feeling this way? WHAT is it that I'm feeling??"

And all I could come up with, was "pissed" and "worried." Not "jealous" or "lonely."

[Greeneyedlass]

Cobra,

I honestly have zero romantic attraction to her anymore.

Your emotional response does not square with this statement. If you truly do not care, then I don’t understand your reaction.

Not having romantic attraction for someone and not caring for them are two different things. So his concern for her well-being definitely makes sense to me.

I too would worry about my parents, my brother, my closest friends if I lived with them and knew they were out at a bar...and I was home waiting to hear if that door closed so I knew they got home safely. I think there is at the very least some type of bond that happens with many people with they co-habitate that would elicit worry in a situation like that.

GEL

[Crazy Eddie]

You have no romantic attachment to your wife. Does she know this?

I know you've had it out with her before and gotten temporary results. You may have to do it again and again and again to keep the connection alive. Who cares if you should have to or not? It's either that, live with a roommate-wife, or divorce.

What can make her "get it" for good? Who knows. People get it when they're good and ready, and not before. I don't know of a good way to speed it up, other than to force them to see the results of not getting it... i.e., bring to their attention that your romantic feelings are GONE and you have no reason other than concern your remaining underage children to stick around.

That will bring them knowledge AND respect for you, which can help alter their perspective.

[oldtimer]

This strikes me as pretty straightforward. WARNING, blunt unedited post ahead...

Yes, address it. Otherwise, your anger sneaking out in petty little ways will only serve to poison your R.

As for me, this really wouldn't work for me, [my projected reaction]: "I don't mind you going out with your friends from time to time [OH GEE, THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH, HOW BIG OF YOU], but I'd appreciate a phone call next time...[SNARKY, YET WHINY]"

An alpha male addresses this matter directly without any P/A crap.

First, an alpha male CALLS LAST NIGHT: "W, I was getting worried about you, are you OK? Safe from physical danger and young boys hitting on you? Do I need to drop off your chastity belt or fight off any dragons for you? Let me know and your knight and sleeping kids will be on their way."

Notice that the first response is direct, sweet, fun, and confidant.

Second, an alpha male is HONEST WITH HIMSELF: you were so "angry" because you were SCARED, either about her safety, her cheating, or both. You beligerant unfocused rage and the whole "I been dissed" attitude is not attractive. Really, really not attractive. I HATE the whole faux macho don't-diss-me BS. Get clear with yourself about your own feelings and report them accurately.

Third, an alpha male addresses the matter directly today if he missed the boat last night: "W, really hope you had a good time out on the town last night. It is great you are having such a good time with your new job. I gotta tell you, though, I was pretty angry last night when you were out so late and I didn't hear from you. The truth is, the anger was because I was scared you weren't safe or had fallen into someone else's arms. It really wasn't working for me. From now on, please check in by 11:00 and keep in touch. TMing always works if you are worried about waking everyone. And, I'll own my own part in this, and promise to call you too if I feel a need to touch base."

[chocolateeyes]

NOP,

I always enjoy hearing from you. I don't always agree with you, and -- to your frustration -- rarely even act on the things that I DO agree with, but I always enjoy hearing your perspective.

These are my thoughts/answers to you:

I have read THOUSANDS of affair stories now. Not a few, not hundreds, but thousands. You would not believe the gross similarities between them. The stories are in the thousands, the themes could all fit on a couple of pages they are so common.

I have zero doubts that that is true.

Expect your wife to want you to cosign or outright buy her a sporty car soon.

Good call, albeit a bit late. I got her a BMW 530i two years ago -- the love of her life, after our children, our cat and somewhere ahead of me.

I hope you know what a MILF is, because that's what the younger guys are already calling her down at the gym.

Yes, I do know what that means, and yes, she has been called that, as she LOVES to point out to me. She's very fond of letting me -- usually in front of our daughters -- know about other men who find her attractive. Like I've said frequently on here, "She DOES want to be thought to be sex-Y, and she even wants ME to find her sex-Y. She just doesn't want to have any ACTUAL SEX with me."

So let me ask one question. Are you wanting the divorce (that is at present, inevitable) to be all her fault? She has the affair with the young guy, (insert typical older woman younger guy scenario here), then proceeds to financially rape you in the settlement. Is that the way you want it to come down so that your sense of guilt is aleviated? At least she has a job now, that will help a miniscule amount in the settlement.

I'm not sure I follow you. If she fools around on ME with a younger guy (I know, ladies, it's a double-standard, but it DOES sound more tawdry than when a guy does the same thing), how would that make ME look worse in a judge's eyes? In any event, I do admit that I sometimes conduct myself (avoiding an affair myself, not caring as much as I should about dipping into our savings) as if a divorce is in our future.

I hope you don't mind sharing your wife, and at this point in the train wreck of your relationship, I think that you are making a serious mistake having unprotected sex with your wife if you two are having sex at all.

NOP, I haven't had sex with my wife in over 3 years, so that's not a problem.

I will tell you one last time what you need to do, then I am butting out of your life.

I can understand your frustration with me, but I did not come on here this morning to ask "My marriage and my sex life is horrible; what can I do???" Specifically because I DON'T want to come across like CeMar, who asks for relationship advice and then doesn't follow it. I hate it when people do that to ME. I came on here to find out how I should have responded -- literally, WHAT WORDS I SHOULD HAVE SAID -- to my wife last nite.

Still, with that all being said, I do appreciate your unique perspective, and I am proceeding with EVERYTHING with the understanding that I'm taking a risk that my wife could have an affair. But that's HER choice, not mine. She has known for a long time what my needs are, and has chosen to ignore them. She's gone so far as to tell me why she does this (push me away), that she wishes she WASN'T like this, and that she promises not to BE like this, ever again.

Then she does it.

I just need to figure out a way to leave her Choice to her, but to still feel OK about my own integrity in the process.

Choc.

[Heywyre]

This is just a little too weird for my liking. The guy doesn't even work there, he's going out with your D, and your W gets invited? Sorry - I don't buy it. I get invited out ALL the time with my students. Do I go? NO !!!! Why? Because I could be their mother that's why. It's too weird and its too risky - plain and simple

As for "did you have a good time, I would appreciate a call next time, I was worried" - is a VERY good line