Act III (3)

[Boat14]

Why do you care that she’s upset about the tracker?

Never use “I am sorry I made you feel that way”. You can’t be responsible for how she feels. Use something like “ I understand that’s how you feel”.

Don’t think a second about her moral high ground and your mistakes. She’s a whore and you’re working on your side of the street. That’s all you can do.

[MrP]

She also indicated that he doesn't like that I turn my phone tracking off when I go out. I haven't shared my location with her in months; I do share with the boys as does she. I never ask them where she goes (I know anyway lol); to be frank I don't trust her not to snoop and it really is not her business where I go. Not sure how to solve this. (No, I don't have an AP).

My immediate reaction was to think of two options:

1. Tell me more about why I should share my location with more than the boys? (Get curious) OR
2. I don't see a need to share my location given the impending D.

She then moved the conversation into some of my negative behavior and how it had made her feel devalued, ignored, and like she was not enough for me. Her comments did have validity, and I mostly listened and said little. I think it irritated her that I wouldn't respond to her probing. I did attempt one validating statement: "I'm very sorry that you feel that way." Her response was, "Well, it's nice of you to tell me that NOW," as in angry and not grateful to hear it.

I'm not a huge fan of this specific type of validating statement because to me it sounds like apologizing for how someone else feels. I see it pop up in some sample lists of validation statements and wince. My suggestion is something like "I hear you. It is unfortunate it felt that way". I also guess I wonder what the point is in engaging in some of this marital unpacking now, even with her couching it as "advice for future relationships".

I admit it was difficult to be lectured to about my faults while she knows that she is in her second affair in a year. I am not sure why she feels she is morally superior, but it's clear she does. "I want you to be happy. This advice will help you in your next relationship. Most women won't put up with this," she said.

Reckless speculation on my part but often when affairs are involved, I understand the "offending" partner can deal with a fair amount of guilt and/or shame. I could see it manifesting as her trying to justify her behavior by looking for ways you "made" her do it. I doubt she feels morally superior.

I was sorely tempted to call her out but did not.

I'm glad you did not. What purpose would it serve? No point poking the bear at this point. Depending how you feel about it, you may say something like "I'm doing a lot to continuously improve myself for me, our son, and any future partners. I hope I can similarly well-intended feedback at some point". Of course you could leave that last part out so it doesn't seem like tit for tat. You could also say something like, "Going forward, if I'm looking for feedback, I'll ask for it" if you want to shut this down because you don't feel like it adds value for you.

She piled on the guilt very heavily. "You made me feel really bad about myself." Of course, there are those here who would say I couldn't make her feel anything. The superpower nobody has. Indeed, there were times I tried to make her feel better about herself, but it didn't work. So I could make her feel bad but not the opposite?

Well put. Our MC told W at one point that "Nobody has power over you unless you give it away". Perhaps your feedback could be, "I hope that going forward we'll both be able to acknowledge our contributions to relationship challenges and be committed to finding solutions with our partners that enhance relationships". Or, you just continue to roll with these conversations and ride them out with validating statements and/or curiosity.

It stinks to be on the receiving end of these conversations. We know we've had better times with our Ws. At this point, negative sentiment override has taken over that we can only influence through work on ourselves. Show, not tell, how much better of a person we are and continue working to be. From where I'm sitting Sun, you're doing as well as possible. You could cut them off by saying you're uncertain that they're productive and would like to discontinue revisiting the "bad times". You can ask for feedback if/when you want it, rather than receiving it unsolicited if you'd prefer not to.

I hope you'll get a better night's rest, Sun. Again, from what you described you did great.

[Sunflyer]

My immediate reaction was to think of two options:

1. Tell me more about why I should share my location with more than the boys? (Get curious) OR
2. I don't see a need to share my location given the impending D.

Thanks Boat and MrP for the valued comments.

I think I was a little unclear about this.

I don't share my location with W and haven't for months. I do share it with my sons, but by doing that W can look at their phones and still track me.

So when I go out for a few hours, I just turn it off entirely to have complete privacy. But when I do that, my younger son complains to W that he can't see where I am and he doesn't like that. (They get notifications on their phones telling them that I've turned it off).

When I hear these complaints through her, she always says, "This is coming from your son. I don't care where you go and have no intention of invading your privacy" or some such remark.

[Sunflyer]

It's my sister's birthday today. She forwarded me a couple of texts.

She got a birthday wish from W. What she also got was a text mistakenly forwarded to her from W in which W was telling someone (probably her mother) how much it "killed" her to wish my sister a happy birthday.

W quickly followed up with an apology and how it bothers her that she doesn't have a relationship with my sister anymore.

I say this is a bunch of BS.

I say she is trying to cover up for accidentally revealing her true colors in the first text.

She has been obsessed and PO'd with my sister since the summer; my sister stopped speaking to her when she refused to work with me on improving our marriage.

Her family (except for her mother's sister) has cut my sister and I off entirely as well, which doesn't seem to bother W at all. (Frankly, I've found it great not to have her family living in my head anymore. I rarely think about them except when stuff like this happens). Her mother's sister (they're twins) has remained gracious to me and my sister and continues to send greetings on special occasions.

In divorce, people side with their blood probably 95% of the time. IMO, W should know that.

In addition to "Why won't she talk to me?" regarding my sister, I've also gotten the "I hope we can remain friends" spiel directed at me. Not sure why she cares about whether I'm her friend or not. I can be civil to her, and polite, and will have to be for the sake of our sons. But friends? Not sure I can handle that with someone that decided to burn my family to the ground.

I guess she may be having trouble handling the fact that she made a decision that has consequences?

[Boat14]

In addition to "Why won't she talk to me?" regarding my sister, I've also gotten the "I hope we can remain friends" spiel directed at me. Not sure why she cares about whether I'm her friend or not. I can be civil to her, and polite, and will have to be for the sake of our sons. But friends? Not sure I can handle that with someone that decided to burn my family to the ground.

When they say I hope we can be friends they mean let's be civil and polite for the sake of our sons.

I guess she may be having trouble handling the fact that she made a decision that has consequences?

All decisions have consequences that I am sure she has laid out 100s of times. Remember she has most likely been planning this for years.

It will likely be many, many years before she sees all the consequences paly themselves out.

[Kind18]

I guess she may be having trouble handling the fact that she made a decision that has consequences?

Accountability is a walkaway/wayward wife’s kryptonite.

They will do anything and everything in their power to change narratives and control people’s opinion of them.

Don’t waste your time thinking about it. It’s very simple - she made comments behind your sister’s back, but accidentally sent them to the wrong person. End of discussion. It is what it is.

It will likely be many, many years before she sees all the consequences paly themselves out.

Even if she does realise the consequences in 5-10 years, she will still never admit it. To hold out for that or think you’re going to get some sort of closure or vindication from it is a fool’s errand.

[Sunflyer]

Even if she does realise the consequences in 5-10 years, she will still never admit it. To hold out for that or think you’re going to get some sort of closure or vindication from it is a fool’s errand.

I agree; I'm certainly not expecting her to say, "I didn't make the best of decisions and could have handled this differently."

She dumped me, my sister is angry that she did and wants no part of her, end of story. She should just let it go and stop with the "I regret that we don't talk anymore" spiel.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Sun

She also indicated that he doesn't like that I turn my phone tracking off when I go out. I haven't shared my location with her in months; I do share with the boys as does she. I never ask them where she goes (I know anyway lol); to be frank I don't trust her not to snoop and it really is not her business where I go. Not sure how to solve this. (No, I don't have an AP).

I don't share my location with W and haven't for months. I do share it with my sons, but by doing that W can look at their phones and still track me.

So when I go out for a few hours, I just turn it off entirely to have complete privacy. But when I do that, my younger son complains to W that he can't see where I am and he doesn't like that. (They get notifications on their phones telling them that I've turned it off).

“Not sure how to solve this.”

Sometimes situations do not have a solution, more a resolution. You may not be able to solve this, you can resolve it though.

First off, if you noticed I called this a situation, not a problem. Problems require solutions. We are pretty much problem solvers and fixers around here, so defining this as a situation will lower that “need” to fix it.

How to resolve? Short answer leave the tracking on.

You share your location with the kids. I do as well.

It sounds like you are ok with son knowing your whereabouts. I’m surmising that if W was not involved in any way, your want/need for complete privacy would be a non-issue. So, make it so. Make it a non-issue.

You cannot control W. If she looks at son’s phone and sees your location, you cannot control that. And in fact, you are doing extra stuff/steps that actually dissuade from what you’d likely do - letting kids know your whereabouts, letting them feel safe and secure. (I once forgot to let my daughter know I was going to be home late from work, and she was panicked. She already lost one parent, and she doesn’t need to feel the loss of another. I never forgot again after that conversation.)

So what if W sees where you are. Who cares? She could hire a PI, or ask questions, or follow you around, or whatever if she really wanted to. Such an obsession would be consuming. (My XW actually stalked our daughter. Followed her after school, and after work. Dear old Mom even freaked out one day and confronted daughter in school, in front of her classmates, about her after school whereabouts. XW was (is?) pretty far in the weeds. Really lost the plot.)

Make this a non-issue. Do not let W live in your head rent-free.

I admit it was difficult to be lectured to about my faults while she knows that she is in her second affair in a year. I am not sure why she feels she is morally superior, but it's clear she does. "I want you to be happy. This advice will help you in your next relationship. Most women won't put up with this," she said.

Oh my! Pure script. That comes right out of her narrative.

My XW also lectured me. And offered to help me become a better man, that maybe I might find a relationship. I’d never find true love like she had though. But, she could help me get a bit better.

LOL! Advice from her!

Yep, they feel soooo great about themselves. And, they hardly ever write themselves as the villain in their own life’s story. Blame and projection are the tools of trade in that.

What about us? The LBS?

We grow and heal. We look inward. We find acceptance and forgiveness. We become.

Oddly, and counterintuitively, XW did help me become a better man.

It’s quite a journey.

D

[Sunflyer]

Well, I hit a pothole this past weekend.

I posted a little while back about keeping my phone tracking off while I am out GALing. I don't share my phone location with W, but I do with my son, and I was concerned about her using him to pry into what I am doing. (I am not dating, not seeing anyone else). W claims that it creates anxiety in our son if he can't know where I am when I am out.

Based on advice, I decided to turn the tracking on and keep it on.

It only took two weeks of this before it blew up.

Saturday, I had planned a nice night out for myself (dinner followed by an audience participation improv session. I have never tried improv before, but it looks like fun). I went out to eat first, and upon leaving the restaurant, sure enough there's W's car parked two rows behind mine in the lot. I walked past it and saw her head peeking out from under the dashboard. I walked back toward the restaurant and called my family confidant to tell her that W was following me.

W confronted me outside while I was still on the phone, convinced that I was talking to some woman that I must be involved with. I ended the conversation quickly, and she proceeded to tell me that I should tell her "in the name of honesty" if I was going to meet someone. Yes, the woman who has had two APs in the last year and has volunteered no information about them, who has had one of them (at least) in our house while I was at work, who has introduced her whole family and our sons to the current one behind my back, is suggesting that I am not being honest enough. The woman who has said that she doesn't care about where I am, now uses our son's phone to get the location and then drives there to confront me.

I didn't get into a fight, but I didn't tell her what my plans were either. I do not feel accountable to her in this regard.

I am thoroughly expecting that W will probably have me tailed by a PI next.

I did go on with the rest of my evening. I enjoyed it as best I could, but kept thinking about this crap the whole time.

I spoke to son the next day. He asked me if I was dating someone and said, "Dad, I just want you to be happy." I told him that for now, my private time is my own, and I asked him to respect that. I also have asked him to come to me directly if he has issues he wants to talk about.

Predictably, on Monday W came to me (either son told her about what I said or she pried him for the info) and continued to argue that anything that prevents me from being open about where I am is "causing him (son) harm and fueling his anxiety." She also tried to justify her following me on Saturday by pointing out that I had tracked her location one day last fall. (This is true and would have been when her current relationship was first heating up. She was coming home later than usual and hadn't told me that she would. Her phone tracking showed her at unusual places for lengthy periods of time. A day or two later, she cut off sharing her phone location with me entirely, and I did the same).

I honestly think that if my son needs to contact me, text or call should be sufficient. Having him track my exact location is just going to perpetuate this behavior from W, which I found highly upsetting, bordering on disturbing.

[Boat14]

I spoke to son the next day. He asked me if I was dating someone and said, "Dad, I just want you to be happy." I told him that for now, my private time is my own, and I asked him to respect that. I also have asked him to come to me directly if he has issues he wants to talk about.

I am curious on why you didn't tell him the truth? Seems to me like a teachable moment to set an example "son I am currently still married to your mother and not interested in dating anyone".

Think you may be reading way to much into her interest. She just wants you to be doing the same as her so she isn't painted as the bad guy.