W re-initiated a discussion tonight. Taking a cue from Ready2Change, I STFU and gave her undivided attention, setting feelings aside. She said she's not looking forward to spending the holidays with my mother (given some ongoing conflict between them). I said that I could see how hard it has been for her, acknowledged it is tough to shoulder that kind of weight, and kept listening. When she finished, I kept my responses to a minimum (a must-do with someone with severe anxiety and social phobia), told her I appreciated her clearly communicating her main concern, and said W is my first priority over my mother. I reassured W that I have her back when it comes to any other person. She fell silent and, after feeling confident I could safely disengage, said I needed to hit the restroom. No additional discussion tonight.
Been "getting a life" and practicing detachment all week. W made 1-2 comments about thing we should do as a family. Our daughter apparently asked if W has made a decision yet about getting divorced. W told her no and then told me about how she usually feels certain about decisions but isn't sure if D is right or not. I just offered some validation and said "I can see it is a touch choice" and left it at that. W also made 2-3 comments about things we should do in the future as a family to which I offered non-verbal acknowledgments that sounded OK and left it at that. Got out of the house to do some shopping for things for myself and our daughter. Made plans to see a professional sporting event with old friends (1 male, 2 female) in two weeks. Not sharing details with W. Am doing my best to demonstrate I am at peace with either decision about D. I have to admit: I feel genuinely at peace. I know I'm doing my best and, when I don't, I pivot or just work to do better at the next opportunity. Hope everyone else here is doing well.
it sounds like you are on the right track. It has to be so much harder when their anxiety won't allow them to talk to you. But you've been given some great advice! Follow it as best you can!
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Sounds like you’re on the right track MrP. As LBS once they drop their bomb we seem to always put ourselves last for a while until we learn to disengage and detach from their mayhem. Sounds like you are doing it perfectly and putting MR P first! That’s all that matters. We only control ourselves and our own happiness. One day at a time and yep there’s a lot of pivoting
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
So...why am I here? Well, it helps to just type all this out and get it out of my head. I'm trying to follow MWD's guidance, the Gottmans, Stand Tatkin, the author of Hold Me Tight, and a great book on Loving Someone with Anxiety. Tools like Sandy's 32 rules, the boundaries checklists, etc. are super helpful. But, I'd appreciate any of YOUR feedback, suggestions, or reactions to my specific situation I'm also glad just to have a sense of community with all of you. I appreciate you and hope I can offer you all some value, motivation, and hope too.
Mr. P, please be careful trying to mix marriage advice from differing "experts". A lot of non-DB (MWD). experts push reconnection and other pursuing and pressure techniques
My recent situation (end of 2017 beginning of 2018) was a second go around. DBing can pay dividends even in a second go around.
Remember, back to basics: get a life, 180s (self-improvements) and detachment.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I appreciate the nudge SteveLW. MWD's guidance and interpretations on this forum serve as the main framework for me. The others I only use for "boutique" guidance or insight (in lieu of having a spouse who is engaging in discussion on any topic). Stan Tatkin's books are especially good at understanding people with avoidant attachment tendencies and complement MWD's approach for me. Loving Someone with Anxiety is a GREAT book for anyone in this situation and includes discussions about establishing boundaries (when verbally abused by a partner) and how to balance being supportive with overly accommodating behaviors like not attending larger, family or friend events.
I'm glad to hear I'm in good company in terms of navigating this a 2nd time around. I picked up some upgrades for my home gym that I'm looking forward to trying tomorrow, am seeing some family earlier in the day, and possibly meeting 1-or 2 of my oldest friends for a beer or two. I'm doing well but am concerned about how long our daughter is sitting in limbo, wondering if the D is going to happen. Given she overhead the initial discussion weeks ago, she knows that the ball is in W's court. She heard me repeat something my DB coach told me a few years ago to my W: "I remain willing to work on this and love and respect you enough to let go if that is what you choose to do". I'm trying to help our daughter also GAL and remember 1) none of this is her fault and 2) all she can control is herself. She continues to do well in sports, school, etc., and is taking more initiative to engage in fun with friends. Still, as a parent (and many of you can relate I'm sure), I worry I'm not doing enough.
Bad day today. W called in the middle of work to let me know she wants to move forward with D. I indicated that I would be happy to talk when we are home tonight and could not at that point in time (I was leading a 30-person meeting in 15 minutes and felt like I had to enforce a boundary we'd previously discussed - hope that aligns with DB practice - I think so). From my perspective, W's anxiety gets the better of her, and she has to relieve it by doing what she wants when she is hitting maximum density (calling me at work to ONLY tell me about moving forward with the D when we were sitting next to each other on the couch all night, had this morning before work, and have tonight after work). Though I feel better prepared and composed than 4-5 years ago when D first came up, it still rattled my day. W says she can't continue to "live like this". She is ruminating over 1) decisions I recall us making together to not have more kids - apparently that is all on me now, 2) how my mother treats her sometimes (obnoxious but my therapist says from the examples these are normal tensions between them) 3) chores (I've long offered to get all the chores down to make sure we feel the work is fair or even that I shoulder a bit more because her anxiety can overwhelm her in that space too) and 4) money to which I've said for the last 10 years I'd be fine moving from "splitters" to "poolers". W avoids follow-up conversations on these topics and, while I gently try to nudge them along at her pace, my opinion is she really wants to continue seeing things solely in a negative light. If anyone has any helpful advice, support, etc. for my talk with W later tonight, I'd love to hear it and am grateful for you all.
When talking with W, let her lead at her speed. Let her bring up topics and explain/tell you whatever it is she is wanting to say. Your goal is to basically listen and validate. Ensure she feels heard.
I’m guessing the boundary you mention regarding calls at work was something along the lines for her not to do it. If/when she does call you at work, enforce the boundary, let her call go to voice mail. Let her feel the loss of you. She needs to feel the loss of her emotional support person.
If her anxiety gets ramped up, that is a good thing. When you aren’t involved and she still gets all upset and anxious she might just start to realize her feelings are not because of you. With some good fortune she might even realize she needs to look inward for answers. All part of minimizing that target she’s painting you with.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
