is it safe to assume that when most of you got married...things were good? you were "in love" with eachother, you we're friends etc?
these are not the words of a waw....listen....I was not "in love" when I got married, my h and I were not friends, life was not fun, h had his secret life and I had mine...I developed my own to counter his...I didn't intend to keep it that way but I suppose I should have known he wouldn't change with m.
h is never going to be a person who wants to do anything other than sit and watch sports. h is not going to be a person who enjoys talking...why he did those things with ow is beyond me.
we probably never should have gotten back together after our first break up.
we were kids when we met and it all fell apart long before we got married...long before we had kids...I kept trying to make things better but it just didn't seem to work...aparently it only made things worse...h's choice of action has changed my perception of him...before I could accept his shortcommings because I could at least say to myself...he's honest, he dedicated, he's compationate, he's loyal, he's ambitious, and he's a hard worker.
I've discovered... he's not honest he's dedicated to himself. he's not loyal he has compation but he chooses who to have it for. I don't see him as ambitious anymore a hard worker....maybe...I don't know what he does all day.
So, it seems to me your H is afraid to "be," just wind down, chill out, and take some time to think. Again, I ask you, has he ever done any kind of serious self-examination, LL?
It saddens me that people can go through their entire lives without realizing this dynamic in themselves. I pray that your H comes out of his "protective" shell. I pray for him to have peace.
jethro
at the very begining of our seperation...we did go to a c together...not because h wanted to but because I went on my own and the c wanted to talk to him to get a sense of things...the c then suggested we go together for a bit and h agreed..that lasted two sessions.
the c tried to address with h the fact that his life seemed to revolve around the business or work aspect h fully admitted to living his life wrapped up in getting the business set.
so the c pointed out...well now you've got the business all set so when are you going to get to the other parts of living life?
h's response..."I've been waiting to be pulled out"
heck I've been trying for years to get him to live a little.
who pulled him out?
ow!
h started listening to music more (before that it was all talk radio, sports, weather etc)
before I had asked h once if he'd ever be interested in getting one of those of road vehicles or snowmobiles (we do have trails right off our yard) h said no...during our sep when one drove by one day he said..maybe I'll get one of those someday.
during our sep..he seemed a bit more alive... dressed a little neater (well ok he wouldn't just come here in work clothes...he'd shower and put on a different tshirt...even bought himself sneakers a man who wears work boots everywhere) wore cologne.
heck I even found a deck of cards in his travel bag.
h is not alive when he's with me.
h should leave me again...I'm starting to think we'd both be better off that way...and if we are happier and better off without eachother than the kids will be better off too.
all the little things that h does that are supposed to show me that he loves me....hmmm let's see...
when h first moved out after telling me he didn't want to be my h anymore...
he called every morning to say hello and see how we all were.(only stopped because I asked him not to call me)
when he was here he did the dishes and played with the kids while I went out.
he bought me flower seeds for my wild flower area. he bought me morning glory flower seeds, a flower I had talked about wanting to put in since we started building the house. he put the airconditioner in MY bedroom (not the kids) and for some reason didn't bother to this summer. if I did happen to be here while he was here he would offer me a soda or some of his drink.
if I mentioned wanting to take a tree down he immediately went out and pushed it over.
he took care of the yard.
he took my car and had it cleaned.
he payed for me and sil to get a massage.
he planted my flowers for me on mothers day and gave me cards from the kids.
and those are things he was doing while he was adamant about not loving me...being in love with ow...and clear that he was never comming home.
so how can I now look at the same things comming from him and accept that they mean he does infact love me and does infact want to be with me??????????????????
truth is I can't...all those things show me is that he does care...that I never doubted.
what I want is what he gave to ow...friendship.
h has never (and yes I know that's a strong word) truly let me be his friend. it's all I've ever asked for...I began to accept that perhaps h was just incapable of friendship but now I know that he is capable....he just doesn't want me to be his friend.
Quote: After H read 5LL he finally clicked that my LL is quality time so now we go out one night a week to a salsa class. I swear it is the only thing keeping our marriage together. If it weren't for that one night out together I think I would be throwing in the towel by now. Maybe it would be a good thing to schedule something where you don't have to talk face to face, like dancing or bowling or something. Maybe your H is fighting shy because he thinks it will end up being R talks all the time?
hey haphazard,
I think I'd be happy if h just read or pretended to read the 5ll's or any of the other many books I've got lying around the house that I've mentioned to him.
I think I'd drop dead of shock if h agreed to take a dance class or anything like that with me.
Quote: The time you mentioned when he asked you to watch football on TV with him and you turned him down. Maybe that was a babystep? Not ideally what you would like - a crumb as you put it - but maybe you have to build the cake one crumb at a time?
tired of taking crumbs hoping they'll lead somewhere only to realize that crumbs is all I'll get. plus truth be told..though there was a time when I would watch football with him, after c's suggesting perhaps since football is one of his main interests he could share that with me and take me to some games h's response was "that's just the guys" so F him when it comes to football..perhaps if he said...wanna play a game of cards and watch the game (most people can multi task can't they...I mean after all he can sit and talk on the phone with buddie while watching the game) but anyway.
Quote:
BTW on the question of loneliness and being stuck with the kids - I hear you, although I do have a couple of girlfriends in same sitch and we get together. You mention you're gf's are busy with chores etc. Can this work: I alternate one morning a week minding my friend's kids for her and vice versa then we have lunch together. I also alternate dropping off and picking up S to pre-school with another friend and then we usually at least have a cup of tea or something when we drop the other child back. It works because we are helping each other out as well as just getting together to chat.
that sounds nice...and in theory I do have a friend in town to do that with and we've talked about it..despite the fact that our sons go to different pre schools we still could get together with the littler ones while they are at school but it never seems to pan out...even when we try to make the plans to do so...one of her kids always seems to get sick or her h needs something.
maybe things will be better for me when both of my kids are in school all day.
after not speaking to him for two days other than social niceties, my taking off and going to the movies (and obviously distanced from him) alone last night....
h just asked me if I want to go to the drive-in theater on fri night....
why the hell couldn't he have taken action when I simply asked nicely???
Are you going to go and have a good time? Or are you going to go and resent it because it wasn't on YOUR timeframe, or H is just asking after you hounded him into it?
I sense a lot of pressure and unhappiness from you on many different fronts. I'm sure that H does too.
A man (or any person) can only take so many times of hearing "you should do this", "you need to...", or "that's nice, but if you only did it this way..." to have their self esteem punctured. This kind of "helpfully suggesting" comes across as a criticism. It damages the ability to have any confidence that anything that is done will meet your expectations. This is strictly about the R skills - I know from your description that H can do many things, and do them well. But when it comes to R skills your H probably feels that he can do nothing right in your eyes. He can't reach the bar that you have set for him, it's too high - and there is nothing in between. So (speaking from personal experience here) H's alternative is simply to do NOTHING. He can't jump over the building in a single bound, so he's not going to try.
Have you noticed that when you back off -
Quote: after not speaking to him for two days other than social niceties, my taking off and going to the movies (and obviously distanced from him) alone last night....
that H felt it was OK to try something?
Try enjoying the fact that H had the courage to ask - he's putting himself on the line there for you to choose. "Reject me or accept me." That is a very vulnerable place for a man. After being met with backhanded compliments and criticism for so long, I just shut down on my STBX. There was no way I was going to risk the rejection again. It also meant I shut down her "suggestions" too. Not the best move on my part, but it gave me some room to breathe. I would not choose that path again, because now I have learned alot more about myself and how the communications and mechanics of an R work.
You can lead a horse to water...
Relax, enjoy the evening. Let H know that you appreciate his efforts, positive strokes, not sideways ones. No - "Well this is what I was talking about before" - that takes away ANY initiative H may have had to do it again. Let H know you are having fun - and have fun!!
I don't reject h....he rejects me. it is not until I all but give up and pull away from him that he makes attempts...as soon as I relax and am comfortable being near him he pulls away again.
him asking me to go to the drive in is huge...I'll admit that...but it's certainly not comming simply from me backing off...I backed off this time as a result of arguments about ow still being a customer and his indecisivness about what to do about that with blatant disregard for how it effects me and thus our m, a confrontation about son picking up h's bad habits (convo brought about by mil), h's falling asleep every night on the couch, h's distance becomming annoying to me etc.
so though it was nice and thoughtfull of him to recall that after I took cousin and son to drive-in my saying...we should go some time it's really neat, almost two months ago.
h is not the one who should fear any rejection...I am the one being rejected.
if he would attempt to take steps up and not continuously just get comfortable on one step only to then go back down....I don't understand how he thinks he'll ever reach that very low bar without trying?
Quote: And as was said, your unhappiness is pretty apparent, if I were your spouse I'd be on pins and needles.
perhaps then I should not have a spouse...then there would be no one rejecting me and taking me for grantide leaving me to feel unloved and boring so they could then blame me for the tension in the r.
a viscuous circle...I'm better when I don't care what he's doing..trouble is when I don't care what he's doing that is when he suddenly cares what I'm doing.
Quoting lostlove: h just asked me if I want to go to the drive-in theater on fri night....
why the hell couldn't he have taken action when I simply asked nicely???
Because he wants it to be HIS idea? Not in a bad way...(like I don't want to give her the satisfaction...) but because don't you think it feels MUCH better to him to have come up with the idea and executed it on his own.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Come on girl, not gonna give up on you. I'm really pulling for you to make it here. Is your glass half full or half empty?
All I'm saying is that looking at this from your H's viewpoint is that you are on him about something all the time. Especially this R stuff that H may not have the skills to cope with. He obviously didn't learn them while he was away, and he may never. You have to decide for you if that is acceptable or not.
Obviously from your view the OW has to go as a customer. I would support this too, but look at this from his view for just a sec - "I'm not gonna let LL tell me who I can and can't have as a customer!" He can't see the personal side versus his business side. I really don't think it's about the OW. It's about you telling him who HIS customers for HIS business can and can't be - your comments are like crabgrass in the middle of his lawn. It doesn't matter to him that you are right from a personal standpoint - H sees it as an invasion of HIS business. People have the ability to compartmentalize these kinds of things, that doesn't make them right - they just are.
I know in my own sitch that STBX was not sending anything but putdowns and rejecting me. And anytime I did get something right, it was either ignored or complimented in a lefthanded fashion. I never felt that STBX was proud of me or my accomplishments - professional or otherwise. After awhile that can drain you dry - both of you.
It would seem that there is alot of mindreading going on here too - both of you. You say that you ARE telling H what he needs to do - think that goes over too well? - can you say cheeseless tunnel?
Ultimately LL you have to decide for YOU. There seems to be an elusive spark there somewhere deep inside of H that draws you to him. Do you see this as potential - if H would just change this or do that I could be happy kind of thing? Men - in general - do not like to have the love of their life try to change them. And some men are so thick they think nothing needs to change - and if it is forced upon them they simply shut up and dig in their heels and do everything to stay the way they are - even if it hurts them and those they love.
Your H simply needs to figure it out - himself, in his own way, in his own time. Only you can decide if the time has run out. And LL, you've been here long enough to know that alot of us men will do nothing until the time has run out. Myself included.
