IW.....I have asked that same question a couple times myself....
To summerize....
My wife did this so I did this...
My wife did this so I did that....
It's early still though....
Hopefully he can see how much focus is on her instead of himself....
I also did an in-home thing, for two and a half years....
Aloof, yet available, was my way....
Yeah, my attempts at detachment have left a lot to be desired. I don't know if I'll ever be in the clear while we're living in the same house.
Were those two-and-a-half years rough for you? Or were you sufficiently aloof and detached to the point where you cruised by? Did you and your W interact at all then?
Detachment isn't a place that you can walk to or anything....
Detaching is a state of mind...
It's a peaceful room in the middle of a Tornado...
A place for you to escape the howling winds surrounding you on a stormy night.
I would classify it as doing what is right, not to induce a reaction, rather regardless the reaction...
Where you can deal with your pretty little woman with the same emotion that you walk to the mailbox with.
She's spinning right now, no need for you both to spin....
Just try to dig into yourself, and deal with finding and being yourself.
Again.....Don't allow HER to define who YOU wanna be .....
The first 6 months or so, I was so over-ANAL-izing every little freakin thing my Ex did , that I forgot that I had a say in who I was too....
Once I figured that out....the rest was easy........er...
We essentially gave a great facade that nothing was wrong. She pretended to not have the first 2 affairs, once I knew for sure about them (they were over by the time I knew for sure), I gave her some space to work through it, by the time I found out about #3, I was done....
I didn't want to place a timeline on anything, however, I decided early on, that I would give myself two years BEFORE I made any decisions about my life with or without her.
Ironically, #3 corresponded with being at the end of my self imposed 2 year Mach project.
I spent those 2 years working on myself, how I communicated, how I listened, how I wanted to be and present myself to the world.
I learned what love was, what obligation was, dealt with my guilt, owned my half of the marital breakdown, and worked my ass off working toward forgiveness.
D, I spent so much time inside of my own head that I didn't have time to wonder WTF she was doing.....
Looking forward, it was painstaking....
Looking back ?
The best 2 years I ever had.... I won't do it again, however, I am thankful that I was able to find out who I am....
So I guess it's about perspective, and time spent, and what YOU decide to do with your time....
We did interact when we had to ..
Parenting, bills, schedule and such. She would talk when she felt the need, I would listen and validate. It didn't go much deeper than that, by her choice. She had a lot of anger that she hadn't worked through, or even realized that she had. Everything was normal in her world, and by her own standards...
Yet, the "shark eyes" gave her away every time....
Sooooo
You do have choices....you just gotta make them......
Well, tomorrow is my anniversary - 16 years. Yeah, I already put 16 in my signature, but tomorrow is the day. What's the proper protocol here given the circumstances? I'm assuming nothing. I could see W maybe mentioning it, but there won't be any cards or gifts. Actually, when things were fine, she wasn't that big on an anniversary gift from W to husband. Which was fine.
Any thoughts are welcomed.
No gifts, no cards, no flowers. Avoid the temptation of a grand gesture to "show her you care" and "win her back". If she mentions it smile and say "same to you" and then go out and hit the gym or go out to lunch with a friend.
Also, be prepared for a "no win" situation. I.e., if you do something nice for the anniversary she'll use that as an opportunity to remind you she's done and you're simply not listening to her which is "proof" she's right to leave, and if you don't do something for it she'll use that as "proof" you don't care and validation she is right to leave you.
Thanks, B. I have nothing planned on the anniversary front. Funnily enough, the thought that keeps popping into my head is that since we're not separated, Anniversary #17 is going to happen as well since D can't go through until a year's separation w/children. Well, aside from death that is.
First figure out what you want to do. Stand or no?
Then you make that decision again tomorrow.
Then the next day.
And the next. And the next. Etc.
And that's how you get to 4 years.
I'm not saying that will be what happens with you. Every person is different every relationship has different dynamics. You have kids, I don't Etc etc.
If I was you i would stop thinking about years from now and start re-reading the golden advice these vets are giving you. Take a breath. S isn't leaving soon, you said yourself. I would slow down and use the time to work on yourself. You can't use logic / your brain to solve your MR if your S wants out. So use it for something else.
And listen to LH he's also helped me tons.
As far as limbo being over, well life is limbo. Unless you get a memory wipe I don't see you ever not feeling something for an ex at some point down the road.
Best
IW
Thanks for the feedback on your situation. As for me - I am standing by default. I have let go of the illusion (delusion?) that W will want to stay in the marriage. For now, the day-by-day approach certainly works. I doubt our younger two kids suspect anything. The older ones kind of know but aren't affected. W and I aren't discourteous around the house, though we're not falling over each other in conversation. From the standpoint of the kids having both mom and dad in the house, it's working for now.
I have some good book recommendations (reading Codependent No More right now), hit the gym with regularity, am reconnecting with some old friends, take the kids out often, and keep up with sports. Life isn't h3llish, though no one wants to live through the end of a marriage.
The first 6 months or so, I was so over-ANAL-izing every little freakin thing my Ex did , that I forgot that I had a say in who I was too....
Once I figured that out....the rest was easy........er...
We essentially gave a great facade that nothing was wrong. She pretended to not have the first 2 affairs, once I knew for sure about them (they were over by the time I knew for sure), I gave her some space to work through it, by the time I found out about #3, I was done....
I didn't want to place a timeline on anything, however, I decided early on, that I would give myself two years BEFORE I made any decisions about my life with or without her.
Ironically, #3 corresponded with being at the end of my self imposed 2 year Mach project.
I spent those 2 years working on myself, how I communicated, how I listened, how I wanted to be and present myself to the world.
I learned what love was, what obligation was, dealt with my guilt, owned my half of the marital breakdown, and worked my ass off working toward forgiveness.
D, I spent so much time inside of my own head that I didn't have time to wonder WTF she was doing.....
Looking forward, it was painstaking....
Looking back ?
The best 2 years I ever had.... I won't do it again, however, I am thankful that I was able to find out who I am....
So I guess it's about perspective, and time spent, and what YOU decide to do with your time....
We did interact when we had to ..
Parenting, bills, schedule and such. She would talk when she felt the need, I would listen and validate. It didn't go much deeper than that, by her choice. She had a lot of anger that she hadn't worked through, or even realized that she had. Everything was normal in her world, and by her own standards...
Yet, the "shark eyes" gave her away every time....
Sooooo
You do have choices....you just gotta make them......
Dude, I thought you were like a simulation or a bot or something. Everything you posted in my thread sounded like a fortune cookie. Now I can see there's a real, breathing Mach1 walking around somewhere! Amazing.
I'm sorry you had to live through all that. Your EXW sounds like William H. Macy's wife in Boogie Nights (no offense - just the thought of 3 affairs...cripes). I can relate to the overanalyzing, though I've mostly conditioned myself to stop here in month #4. Like you mentioned, I want to improve my communication and response skills. I played a role in the marriage being where it is today, whether or not I want to insist that W was and is prime MLC material.
I can't imagine two years of this on my end. I know you posed the question to me if W was worth the wait, but I feel like things are trending downward. Not to say I'm living my life hinging on every word and action from W...just that the quality quotient of the marriage [censored] balls. Kind of like where you describe your wife talking if she felt the need, but not much deeper than that. We're not quite there yet, but hovering above such communication.
The choice I'm making, as I told Iron Will, is to stand for now and just try to take things day by day. The tenable nature of things for the kids also makes leaving difficult. I guess it's not torture in the house while I'm also trying to reinvent Doug...
I have some good book recommendations (reading Codependent No More right now), hit the gym with regularity, am reconnecting with some old friends, take the kids out often, and keep up with sports. Life isn't h3llish, though no one wants to live through the end of a marriage.
How many women do you interact with each day? Do they find you attractive? Exciting? Do you make them laugh? Smile?
I am not looking for answers to the questions above. Just things for you to think about and decide to behave different. Just remember that the rules have changed.
As far as books, I have read the 4 agreements countless times. Each time I get something new from it. I am at a different point in my life and am a different person than I was in the past every time I read it. It is a quick read.
One of my Mantras- "Don't be boring"
Get a hair cut, get a massage, go buy some new clothes, get dressed up, go watch live music and have a great dinner and meet some interesting people. Be so busy you don't even have time to think about the lady that fired you as her husband. If that is not enough, add more things to the todo list.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Yeah you have young kids and at 43 you have lots of time to think about your future. Ride this puppy out and boink her if she wants to keep doing it. Just shows you are not a monster. Only a psycho would boink a monster right? Make the changes you need to make and enjoy the remaining 100% of the time you have with the kids. IHS gets easier once you officially wave the white flag and surrender to the unknown. You won’t feel like this forever and you will be happier in the long run.
Wanted to follow up on this one...
Definitely agree with LH on not rushing into anything due to the young kids and a lot of time, but in terms of continuing to have sex with her you better be really careful there. First, be safe from an STD perspective because I hate to say this but you can't be certain what she's done. Second, you better be absolutely sure you're 100% detached and have fully accepted the marriage might be over (I.e., "waved the white flag). Easier said than done when you're still having sex with the mother of your children. A lot of LBSs think they're detached and accepting, but then something that smacks them in the face and they realize they weren't. The sex can hurt your detachment and can be used as a way for her to manipulate you to keep you as a backup and to soften you up to get you to do what she wants in the separation/divorce.
If you can keep having sex and simply enjoy the physical act and know you're 100% detached and accepting, great...you do you. But easier said than done.
Just my $0.02.
As someone that ended up having a lot of sex in his situation, this advice is spot on. As we always say, being 100% sure she is not physical with anyone else is paramount! And then as BL said, if you cannot do AND still continue to work on detachment, then you need to be careful.
For me the sweet spot was to realize that she could walk at any minute, including 1 second after we had sex. That sex had no meaning related to her wanting a D. That it was just purely the physical act with little to no emotion behind it. In my case, it was really about her having a lot of pent up sexual energy due to her EAs with guys that were hundreds, or 1000s of miles away. AnotherStander and sandi (I believe) pointed out to me that likely she was fantasizing about her EAP while making love to me. That was a very sobering thought. One that did give me pause a few times.
But as BL said, the sex can, and for most LBS will, hurt your detachment. We've seen a lot of LBSs that have had sex throughout their situation with the WAS, some even while the WAS was sexually active with other people (SMH), and it is a very rare LBS that can do that and NOT attach significance to it.
BL is spot on with this post.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Dude, I thought you were like a simulation or a bot or something. Everything you posted in my thread sounded like a fortune cookie. Now I can see there's a real, breathing Mach1 walking around somewhere! Amazing.
I'm sorry you had to live through all that. Your EXW sounds like William H. Macy's wife in Boogie Nights (no offense - just the thought of 3 affairs...cripes). I can relate to the overanalyzing, though I've mostly conditioned myself to stop here in month #4. Like you mentioned, I want to improve my communication and response skills. I played a role in the marriage being where it is today, whether or not I want to insist that W was and is prime MLC material.
I can't imagine two years of this on my end. I know you posed the question to me if W was worth the wait, but I feel like things are trending downward. Not to say I'm living my life hinging on every word and action from W...just that the quality quotient of the marriage [censored] balls. Kind of like where you describe your wife talking if she felt the need, but not much deeper than that. We're not quite there yet, but hovering above such communication.
The choice I'm making, as I told Iron Will, is to stand for now and just try to take things day by day. The tenable nature of things for the kids also makes leaving difficult. I guess it's not torture in the house while I'm also trying to reinvent Doug...
Yea....
I came to the boards in a different way....
Bomb was in '07...
I spent the first 8 months of my sitch just reading because I couldn't log in due to firewall schidt at work, and of course nothing at home with a live in....
I came home one night and my ex had taken the kiddos and went to visit family 6 hours away, so everything was pretty quiet for the first time in over 15 years...
I remember the feeling of " F this....if this is truly the plan for me"....
I remember going outside and screaming at God to give me every Fing thing he had, because I wanted to know my breaking point....
the next morning, I was reading through some threads and right in front of me was an email addy for JackThreeBeans, that if anyone needed to talk 'off boards' to please contact him....
That changed my life....
By the time I was able to post, there wasn't much going on in my life except the work on me....
Sooooo....
My first 4400 or so posts have been about helping others here....
And the reason I never had any threads here (until recently)...
Hopefully that has worked a little....
In my 14 years here, I've had the pleasure of helping a dozen or so marriages reconcile, yet better than that, I've helped many people reconcile with themselves...
I have found that with newcomers....Shorter bulleted responses go over better....
Typically there is an information overload, and their eyes gloss over with the longer more explanatory posts...
So short and to the point until the brain stops shakin around a bit....
Plus...you don't really need me to tell you how to live your everyday life.
Next thing you know, you will be posting here asking if you should buy Charmin or Angel Soft...F that...
I tend to post more philosophical stuff, and allow you to THINK, and come to your own conclusions about your life....
MLC theory...
WAS theory...
LBS theory....
What's the line Cadet ???
I couldn't imagine two years either....at that time....
Looking at two years when you are in it, isn't a pleasant thought....
IF you look at it as a whole, you will fail....
Just never eat an elephant whole...you eat it bite by bite...
However that was MY thing...doesn't have to be yours...
Yet you DO have to make a choice......
And stop allowing her to tell you who the F you are.....
As someone that ended up having a lot of sex in his situation, this advice is spot on. As we always say, being 100% sure she is not physical with anyone else is paramount! And then as BL said, if you cannot do AND still continue to work on detachment, then you need to be careful.
For me the sweet spot was to realize that she could walk at any minute, including 1 second after we had sex. That sex had no meaning related to her wanting a D. That it was just purely the physical act with little to no emotion behind it. In my case, it was really about her having a lot of pent up sexual energy due to her EAs with guys that were hundreds, or 1000s of miles away. AnotherStander and sandi (I believe) pointed out to me that likely she was fantasizing about her EAP while making love to me. That was a very sobering thought. One that did give me pause a few times.
But as BL said, the sex can, and for most LBS will, hurt your detachment. We've seen a lot of LBSs that have had sex throughout their situation with the WAS, some even while the WAS was sexually active with other people (SMH), and it is a very rare LBS that can do that and NOT attach significance to it.
BL is spot on with this post.
I remember reading one of your early threads and encountering the bolded part (above), and thinking about that in regards to my own situation. Yeah, it's not a pleasant thought, but whatever...what can you do?
Another thing I recall from probably the same thread, Steve, was when you got to a point where you weren't sure if you wanted the MR anymore yourself. I have had a surfeit of such thoughts myself recently - not actually putting real consideration towards being the one to leave, but an internal temperature check of marital satisfaction. And there's not much there. Like LH19 said, he was glad his EXW didn't actually waver in the face of her father's wrath, because that would mean he'd be stuck in a dead marriage today. I've been trying to gauge my detachment efforts from W by comparing interacting with her to a trip down to the mailbox (analogy courtesy of Mach1). I guess all this is to say that sex is losing any emotional significance...the last dying embers of the marriage are barely glowing.
