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McRamone #2926864 12/01/21 05:44 PM
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That was before I realized what he's up to.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
McRamone #2926871 12/01/21 08:29 PM
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Hey McRamone,

I started this post yesterday before you went after Ginger, and am not sure why I'm still going to post it but since it is already written maybe it will help you or someone else.

Everyone here is truly here to help and has either gone through their own similar, difficult situation or is currently still struggling with it. I recall early on you said you wanted to work on strengthening your empathy muscles-- can you practice that here? I strongly recommend you take what CW has said to heart. Instead of lashing out and putting others down, can you put your emotional response aside and try to listen to what is being said? Is there any kernel of truth? Are there things you might improve upon in how you interact with others such that you can be a better friend, partner, father, colleague?

If it matters, I stopped posting because I was turned off by the things you were saying to others, and TBH it struck a nerve with me. My H also can be arrogant and combative, especially in the years leading up to BD. I did not cheat on him or walk out, but I did cut him off from intimacy and sex, partially because of things to do with me and partially because he was being an @ss, totally full of himself, and not being a good partner. Seeing you write cruel barbs full of disdain to disprove strangers on the internet who are only trying to help really made me think that wow, now I get what your wife is feeling and why she's doing what she's doing.

You also come across as not very respectful of other people, not just here but in your R with your W. The privacy thing is a good example-- you didn't grow up with respecting others' privacy, and she did... but when the time came for you to either respect her wishes or just follow what you've always done, you just did what you wanted without taking her thoughts or feelings into consideration. You shared what your love language is but not hers-- I'm assuming you know it, but through what you're sharing you're focusing on how you didn't get what you needed from the relationship and how that made you respond, not what was happening for your wife and how you were trying to respect and meet her needs.

Getting so upset and lashing out when people are saying you should be prepared for the A to have been physical, for it to still be going on, for this to be a stepping stone to D... that really isn't productive for you. These are all possibilities. I also was totally convinced that my H wasn't having a PA (and before he disclosed the EA, would have sworn backwards and forwards that he wouldn't ever have cheated or lied) and it was Steve who told me to be prepared. I thought, no way, there were all these logical reasons why not... but I was wrong and was really glad, in the end, that I had done the mental preparation. (Thanks Steve!) I also really, really didn't want to S or D but in the end, opening myself up to the reality that my H *did* want to S/D also allowed me to totally let go (and if you've read my story, you might know that it was that final step of me saying GTFO and my H having secured an apartment when he finally saw that there were no barriers to him leaving, and that he actually wanted to stay M). It was all very protracted and painful. I guess I'm just saying all this to say-- I know how you feel and it $ucks. But also, pretending it isn't happening won't get you anywhere. You need to really face reality here and I think this is what many of the posters are/were trying to do in this context. Maybe she isn't having an A-- but you're much better off if you realize it is a possibility (especially as she had one before) and can come to terms with the fact that she may, indeed, be wanting to separate in order to end the M.

The final thing I wanted to say is that most of the posters here do advocate for what MWD calls the last-last resort technique (if I remember that correctly). I questioned that too, in my sitch, and vets said that it is because most of the LBSs that end up here are in that really dire situation where the LLRT is called for. It was not appropriate in my situation and I did not do it. It may not be appropriate in yours, in fact I do think you have the chance to save your M without employing the LLRT. But-- and this is the big but-- the way you do that is through focusing on YOU, not her, or all us jerks here on this board. What can you do differently? What are 180s you can work on for yourself? What kind of person do you want to be? Are you okay being tagged as an arrogant jerk or do you want to be a more empathetic person? If you don't want to be an @ss-- DON'T. Feels like this forum would be a great place for you to practice taking that chip off your shoulder. Your wife needs her space and time to do her own work to determine whether or not she wants to stay married to you. You can't force that process. it is hers and hers alone. Focus on how you can become the best McR you can be and give her the space to find her own path. She needs to choose you, and it can't be forced.

Good luck,
May


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
may22 #2926872 12/01/21 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by may22
Hey McRamone,

I started this post yesterday before you went after Ginger, and am not sure why I'm still going to post it but since it is already written maybe it will help you or someone else.
.

Yet she is free to go after me?

Or the guy who called Galaga a troll when he was talking about saving his hanging father..

I get that you have an online relationship with the people here. It seems it’s ignore their chirps and excuse their behavior. I understand that


Originally Posted by may22
Everyone here is truly here to help and has either gone through their own similar, difficult situation or is currently still struggling with it. I recall early on you said you wanted to work on strengthening your empathy muscles-- can you practice that here? I strongly recommend you take what CW has said to heart. Instead of lashing out and putting others down, can you put your emotional response aside and try to listen to what is being said? Is there any kernel of truth? Are there things you might improve upon in how you interact with others such that you can be a better friend, partner, father, colleague?
.

My online presence is a bit intense but in no way match me IRL.
Not close. I have several close friends going back decades, everyone at work gets along great with me. I’m consistently nominated and win peer awards at my company - you don’t get those being a jerk or arrogant to coworkers. I try to be a fully engaged parent. I was the one that worked every during online school. I’m teaching my oldest to drive, I try to spend meaningful time with my youngest. I do so much for the family. Cook 80% of the meals, grocery shopping, takes kids to school, etc. I’ve ran 8 marathons including qualifying for Boston with my running club. I’ve coached others in the club. I say this not to brag but to highlight you don’t really know me at all. No person can on a forum like this.

You call me arrogant and combative. Two words that no one I knows would describe me. That’s why it’s an insult to me. I work in corporate legal. I make negotiate all the time. You can’t do that being arrogant and combative all the time. It’s always about give and take. Trying to see the other party’s perspective and coming together. I’d been fired a long time ago if I couldn’t do that.

I am confident in what I know, confident in my ability and am willing to engage people to change minds.

Originally Posted by may22
Seeing you write cruel barbs full of disdain to disprove strangers on the internet who are only trying to help really made me think that wow, now I get what your wife is feeling and why she's doing what she's doing.

You also come across as not very respectful of other people, not just here but in your R with your W.
. You have no way of knowing this. Ok. I don’t respect people who won’t get vaxxed or won’t wear masks. In general people who don’t think of others.


Originally Posted by may22
The privacy thing is a good example-- you didn't grow up with respecting others' privacy, and she did... but when the time came for you to either respect her wishes or just follow what you've always done, you just did what you wanted without taking her thoughts or feelings into consideration.


I didn’t detail every interaction on this nor every change. For example, when we were first married she made a comment about me opening her mail. I stopped doing that and haven’t since. There are other things. I started seeing an IC at HER request.

Originally Posted by may22
You shared what your love language is but not hers-- I'm assuming you know it, but through what you're sharing you're focusing on how you didn't get what you needed from the relationship and how that made you respond, not what was happening for your wife and how you were trying to respect and meet her needs.

Getting so upset and lashing out when people are saying you should be prepared for the A to have been physical, for it to still be going on, for this to be a stepping stone to D... that really isn't productive for you.

It’s not productive for people to call my wife a whore and imply the ONLY reason she was moving out was to sleep around. (And yes someone did say this). I ask you is that productive? I think Steve has his own issues and I don’t respect him. So you are right

I disagree that assuming my wife is sleeping around is helpful. It’s actually toxic. Especially for my situation. The constant drumbeat of negativity about a spouse can actually affect how you think and you see everything in a negative light.

I think the people on here are actually obsessed with this fact. But I don’t think you can actually be fully prepared for the truth. My grandma passed away this summer she was 100 years old. By rights I should’ve been prepared for her death yet when it happened I was struck by the grief I had.

But if I ask people to drop that line of thinkimg. I would hope they’d respect that.


Originally Posted by may22
The final thing I wanted to say is that most of the posters here do advocate for what MWD calls the last-last resort technique (if I remember that correctly). I questioned that too, in my sitch, and vets said that it is because most of the LBSs that end up here are in that really dire situation where the LLRT is called for. It was not appropriate in my situation and I did not do it. It may not be appropriate in yours, in fact I do think you have the chance to save your M without employing the LLRT. But-- and this is the big but-- the way you do that is through focusing on YOU, not her, or all us jerks here on this board. What can you do differently? What are 180s you can work on for yourself? What kind of person do you want to be? Are you okay being tagged as an arrogant jerk or do you want to be a more empathetic person? If you don't want to be an @ss-- DON'T. Feels like this forum would be a great place for you to practice taking that chip off your shoulder. Your wife needs her space and time to do her own work to determine whether or not she wants to stay married to you. You can't force that process. it is hers and hers alone. Focus on how you can become the best McR you can be and give her the space to find her own path. She needs to choose you, and it can't be forced.

Good luck,
May


MWD doesn’t advocate jumping to the LRT right away.

Plus the mixed advice makes my head spin.

Don’t got to MC. Do go to MC. Don’t have contact, do have contact. Don’t help her move. Be supportive of the move. Do go over to her place. Don’t go over to her place.



I appreciate your thoughts. Honestly. But I think my situation is so different that I don’t belong here or am not the kind of “LBS” that the forum wants. I never got the DB. I never got the ILYBINILWY.
I never got the rewriting of the marriage see only the negative. I really don’t think people here are equipped or know what to do with that.

Last edited by McRamone; 12/01/21 09:35 PM.
McRamone #2926873 12/01/21 09:40 PM
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I didn’t go after anyone . I asked an honest direct question . But you just can’t take a look in the mirror or not attack someone.

You put so much energy into trying to prove people wrong and defending yourself, and barely an ounce looking in the mirror. No sweat off my back. You do you.

FWIW, I imagine you are a fantastic lawyer. You are relentless. Your lines between work and your personal life may be a little blurred. Constructive criticism, not an attack, although I’m 99% sure you’ll take it as one.

I’m done here, no worries. Good luck to you

McRamone #2926874 12/01/21 09:45 PM
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Keep feeding the beast.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
McRamone #2926875 12/01/21 10:26 PM
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Hi McRamone,

I don't know you and I'm truly not claiming to-- I'm just sharing what I have observed through this forum. Maybe you're the perfect husband and father and colleague IRL and just arrogant and combative online, and your wife is just going through something that has nothing to do with you. That could be. I was just asking you questions for you to consider for yourself. This is all internal work that needs to be done, whether you belong here or not, whether your W is truly on her way out or simply taking a break and focusing on herself. I do think it is important for everyone in the LBS position to be honest with themselves about what is happening and focus on their own healing (and ideally growth).

Also, IMHO you didn't actually consider any of the questions I posed to you but instead picked on all the things you disagree with whether I wrote them to you or someone else did. It would be frustrating if I cared. I can imagine arguing with you as a spouse would be exhausting. I do have a different perspective than some others here and am not trying to defend their specific advice.

In the end, the facts remain that your W had an affair and moved out because she's so angry with you. Is that right? I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just trying to understand why you're so resistant to seeing any similarities between your own situation and that of others. For me, knowing that there were others going through what I was going through was incredibly helpful.

Best of luck,
May


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
McRamone #2926876 12/01/21 10:36 PM
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Eh’…at this point if you think you’re proving a point you’re not. In regards to that one guy…you know it’s me. I’ve posted in your thread multiple times, but for some really weird reason unless it’s LH you seem to only go after the woman who post on your thread. Weird right?

Again, I’ve apologized to Galaga but that doesn’t seem to be enough for you. Is that maybe a common theme in your life? You’re always the victim? Never do or say anything wrong? Don’t know how to forgive? Only respond to woman who have strong opinions?

Funny, when I told my story, I got frustrated, emotional, but didn’t argue every single chance and did come to understand why people thought maybe some of what I was saying wasn’t true. And I came to respect these people for their honesty, bluntness and helpfulness. Does it mean I was wrong and lied, of course not. But we don’t know each other from a hole in the wall. So when some posters are getting out of hand…I.e wanting to die, or an obvious drinking issue it’s gonna get called out. Some people are just better at wording things sympathetically than others. CW is the master of that.

For you, you want to argue, you want to always be right, you can’t take criticism.

I’m with LH now, if others wanna respond feel free, but I’m gonna head on out of this situation. If it’s real, and that’s a big if, something tells me Gingers spot on.


Me: 37
W: 34
Together 17 years
Married 16 years
5 kids, 17,16,13,12,8
McRamone #2926879 12/01/21 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by McRamone
MWD doesn’t advocate jumping to the LRT right away.
Correct. There is so much more to do before going down the LRT path.

Quote
The mixed advice makes my head spin. Don’t got to MC. Do go to MC. Don’t have contact, do have contact. Don’t help her move. Be supportive of the move. Do go over to her place. Don’t go over to her place.
You have to remember that this forum is for brainstorming new ways of interacting with your spouse. Evaluating all the options and making choices is part of the process. Each option has worked for other in the past as well as each option hasn't worked for others in the past. Making 180's in certain behaviors makes the most sense for me. Albert Einstein : “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”


Quote
I think my situation is so different that I don’t belong here or am not the kind of “LBS” that the forum wants.
Your situation is definitely different than mine, but I believe your story has the potential of helping someone. It definitely helps me. Your posts make me think and challenge my current beliefs.

For example, when you used the word "whore" in reference to your wife, I felt like you picked the wrong word. I know words have different meanings to different people, but I lean towards the dictionary definition.


Quote
I never got the DB. I never got the ILYBINILWY. I never got the rewriting of the marriage see only the negative. I really don’t think people here are equipped or know what to do with that.
Hopefully you are one of the lucky ones and she just needs a break.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
McRamone #2926881 12/02/21 12:34 AM
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I’m with LH on this one. But will add, why don’t we all just wake up and see the fact that Ramone is way smarter than we are. He knows way more, he’s sharper than we will ever be. I mean just admit it to him. Never mind he’s driven his marriage off into the ditch - or at least was a passenger and could have done something different. He doesn’t need nor want our help. He’s right and everyone else is wrong. He’s a right fighter who’d rather be right than be happy. What I don’t get is why even bother with the likes of us? We are of no use, provide bad advice, only attack you. Yet you’re still here interacting with us - as your wife continues running for the hills. And I’m back to agreeing with LH. Best of luck to you.


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
McRamone #2926888 12/02/21 09:08 AM
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Reminds me of a quote from the movie Fight Club - “ You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else”

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