Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
Ex wife finally admitted to the affair at the girl's trip. She is living with him in Colorado.

It turns out that one of the girl's had planned the Scottsdale trip back in Jan. it had nothing to do with my wife or her affair skank. The location was just a coincidence. So that made me feel better. It appeared to me that she planned the trip and all the lady friends were headed out to celebrate her affair but that wasn't the case.

Instead, at least two of them that I know, were appalled. The dude she is with is a legit narcissistic predator.

"Sooooo you've just been lying to everyone for the past 9 months" -- apparently she just shrugged that question off with a giggle and a "I just didn't want to be married anymore."

One of the girlfriends used to date this man years ago-- back when it was easier for him to present as "normal" and, knowing him, she knows his compulsive lying ways and she apparently read my ex wife the riot act about it.

It is very strange re-reading some of our text and email exchanges in light of the REAL reason for the divorce, her alcohol fueled affair with a man who lies about his identity and moves across the country in utter disgrace when found out-- she has sadly become a mirror-image of her affair partner.

This person who used to communicate so clearly, and wisely, about everyone else's issues, who had ZERO patience for any infidelity in the lives of our friends and family, has been lying about her own affair for months.

At this point, there is finality. This person is, in a very literal way, totally different. I can't imagine anything she could do or say, no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship. Now I am mostly just sad about the deterioration of this human being armed with the knowledge that this abominable union she is in, is doomed-- the proverbial slow moving train wreck.

I do want to email her and just rip her to utter pieces now that I have nothing holding me back-- but I know how futile and ego driven that is. Still, it seems like she thinks she just played all this perfectly and really "got away" so to speak-- and she did literally "get away".

All of this is just so strange. Does anyone ever REALLY know anyone else.

And on top of that, do we even know ourselves?

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,372
Likes: 136
L
Member
Online
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,372
Likes: 136
Originally Posted by LeeChild
Ex wife finally admitted to the affair at the girl's trip. She is living with him in Colorado.

Affairs are acts of anger -- she has built up a ton of resentment toward you, and since she's avoidant, she hasn't given voice to any of it or worked any of it through. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, or that you deserve her resentment, it could be completely irrational, but the point is that it exists.

Once people have affairs, they initially feel guilty and will beat themselves up about it, but eventually self-protection takes over and they refuse to believe that they are bad people.

So if she's not a bad person, then the reason she did a bad thing must have been because you drove her to it, you made her do it, and therefore you are the bad person and she is the victim.

Once she gets there, she'll seek any evidence to reinforce his viewpoint and will reject anything that contradicts it. That's why she will vilify you and nothing you do will be good. You simply can't win because she's an expert at confirmation bias at this point.

Virtually no one gets any real remorse -- the wayward spouse will feel sorry for themselves for "how you made them feel" about the affair, but they won't really feel remorse for their actions because they convince themselves that they were justified and that you were to blame.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
1 member likes this: LeeChild
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by LeeChild
Ex wife finally admitted to the affair at the girl's trip. She is living with him in Colorado.

Affairs are acts of anger -- she has built up a ton of resentment toward you, and since she's avoidant, she hasn't given voice to any of it or worked any of it through. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, or that you deserve her resentment, it could be completely irrational, but the point is that it exists.

Once people have affairs, they initially feel guilty and will beat themselves up about it, but eventually self-protection takes over and they refuse to believe that they are bad people.

So if she's not a bad person, then the reason she did a bad thing must have been because you drove her to it, you made her do it, and therefore you are the bad person and she is the victim.

Once she gets there, she'll seek any evidence to reinforce his viewpoint and will reject anything that contradicts it. That's why she will vilify you and nothing you do will be good. You simply can't win because she's an expert at confirmation bias at this point.

Virtually no one gets any real remorse -- the wayward spouse will feel sorry for themselves for "how you made them feel" about the affair, but they won't really feel remorse for their actions because they convince themselves that they were justified and that you were to blame.

Right, they literally can't. The cognitive dissonance is too strong. Everything starts from the position of "I am not a bad person" and leads from there, to reiterate what you've stated.

I have read that at some point many MLCers do wake up to the ramifications of what they have done in a visceral way-- sometimes this realization makes them suicidal.

More likely, and sadly, I think she will just devolve further and further into sociopathy-- different rules for her vs. everyone else-- hatchet job morality. And she literally has an experienced master trainer to further teach her the ways.

This is silly but it's literally the path of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader. Anakin even gives his justifications for his heel turn-- "from my point of view it is the Jedi who are evil" etc.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
I don't agree that affairs are acts of anger - mostly they are acts of opportunity and selfishness. It feels good so why should they care how it affects anyone else?

AS for the question of "can we ever really know someone?" - well, that's a tough one. Sometimes the WAS is just out of their mind high on infatuation, and like an addict, they can't resist. This may also be more true of those who suffered from depression or who have a past history of addiction. We know that infatuation lights up the brain just like cocaine does.

Sometimes, though, we just missed the signs of our spouse's true self because of the rose colored glasses we were wearing. It took me a while after our separation to put all the pieces together and recognize that my ex's narcissism had always been there, had always been a factor in our relationship, and that, in fact, I probably didn't know the whole truth about how many times he had actually cheated. I loved him and he, like many narcissists, was charming and a facile liar.

It doesn't invalidate the good times we had - there were many - but I can see now that those good times really depended on me doing a lot of twisting like a pretzel to keep him happy. And the signs that he was not good at fidelity were there from the beginning of our relationship - I just convinced myself that it was a one time occurrence, and missed the signs in between that and his affair years later that were indicative of probable other hanky panky going on (Or at least some inappropriate behavior if not outright affairs).

I think the challenge for you (and for many of us) is to take the rose colored glasses off and identify the red flags that we ignored in our spouses, so that we don't make the same mistake again.

And give up the desire for vindication or remorse - karma will take care of them.

Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by kml
I don't agree that affairs are acts of anger - mostly they are acts of opportunity and selfishness. It feels good so why should they care how it affects anyone else?

In her situation I believe it is all 3.

My wife very likely had symptoms of a wallowing or "covert" narcissist. Not the classic, highly manipulative, bombastic over the top, controlling type.

It's likely something that has been completely unleashed in this midlife scenario.

Everyone has a dark side, some people aren't at all able to keep theirs at bay.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
Quote
Everyone has a dark side, some people aren't at all able to keep theirs at bay.

I'm not sure that it is true that everyone has a dark side. Pretty sure my sister does NOT have a dark side. However, many people who DO have a dark side are kept in check by societal expectations and spouses like us who help make it easier for them to mask who they are.

In retrospect, what red flags do you think you ignored that might have warned you about this aspect of her?

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
Oh yeah - I forgot - you totally missed that she was an alcoholic. That would have been your first clue. What was it about your past that made it seem normal that she drank a bottle of wine a night and more on weekends?

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,659
Likes: 108
D
DnJ Online
Member
Online
Member
D
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,659
Likes: 108
Hello Lee

Her friends are finding out they’ve been being duped over the last months believing her manipulative lie filled narrative. It will be interesting to see what they do.

Originally Posted by LeeChild
This person who used to communicate so clearly, and wisely, about everyone else's issues, who had ZERO patience for any infidelity in the lives of our friends and family, has been lying about her own affair for months.

Oh yes, they become the opposite of who they once were. It is incredible how driven they are to such transformative feelings. Irrational pressures of past unrealized traumas and pains surge upwards to the fore and consume them.

Originally Posted by LeeChild
At this point, there is finality. This person is, in a very literal way, totally different. I can't imagine anything she could do or say, no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship. Now I am mostly just sad about the deterioration of this human being armed with the knowledge that this abominable union she is in, is doomed-- the proverbial slow moving train wreck.

I do want to email her and just rip her to utter pieces now that I have nothing holding me back-- but I know how futile and ego driven that is. Still, it seems like she thinks she just played all this perfectly and really "got away" so to speak-- and she did literally "get away".

Her life is most likely a slow moving train wreck. Yes, most do feel like they got away with it. It’s the high from their life at the moment. Fate, karma, her comeuppance, it will come. No need to watch or wait for it. Let her exist in her creation. Exist. She’s not living. Believe it.

It’s is very nice to see your wisdom shinning with your awareness of your ego’s want for vengeance. It is most true, ripping into her is futile, ego driven, and very short sighted. You feel good for far shorter a duration than you even imagine. Stick to the better path.

To that end, the better path, some advice. And by the way, like everything, it is for you and your well being. Not to spare XW; that is just a byproduct of the good path.

Originally Posted by LeeChild
…just rip her to utter pieces now that I have nothing holding me back.

You have you holding you back. Your wisdom. Your rational self. Your worth.

You need not saddle yourself with remorse from harsh words towards XW. She won’t listen anyhow, and you will feel bad.

Be better not bitter. Be the best version of yourself. Besides, if you really want revenge - live your great life. Years from now, she will absolutely regret leaving such a man.

Originally Posted by LeeChild
I can't imagine anything she could do or say, no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship.

Lee, uncouple what you said. Uncouple how you are looking at this.

“…no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship.”

Forgive and reconvene are two separate things.

Fine, you do not want to reconvene.

Quote
I can't imagine anything she could do or say, no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship.

However, you need to work towards seeing, imagining, forgiveness. That is completely for you. Forgiveness towards XW is for you!

Keep forgiveness separate. It’s part of that good path. Walk in the light and with Grace. Better not bitter. Compassionate. It is so worth it. And so are you!

Originally Posted by LeeChild
All of this is just so strange. Does anyone ever REALLY know anyone else.

And on top of that, do we even know ourselves?

Truly knowing another. Yes and no.

We have knowledge, history, trust, respect, and faith in them and yet something unknown can rise from the depths and obliterate the one we once knew.

I find it is not so much not knowing them, for we did know who they were. For years they behaved and demonstrated characteristics and qualities that were good. Qualities we loved and cherished.

It is the future we cannot know. We do predict based upon past and historical actions. We have faith and trust in our spouse. Yet, they become this other person. This opposite of our loving spouse.

It’s an interesting question and an even more interesting answer. We can know, and did know, our spouse. We don’t know, or didn’t know, the changeling they turn in to.

Like most things. It depends upon one’s viewpoint.

Do we even know ourselves?

Within the crucible the true test of a person happens. We do learn, find, and know ourselves. A person’s true character, values, and convictions will surface in such extreme conditions.

Do we even know ourselves? Absolutely!

However, it’s what happens next that is the important part. Do we grow and become better with this knowledge and understanding of self? In the quest for that answer, is when one REALLY knows themselves.

Walk in the light. Life journey is what matters, not the destination. How we walk the path is much more important than where we get to.

Knowing, comes from past history. We can only know ourselves from our past. Our future is thankfully unknown. As the future becomes the past, we keep discovering more and more of who we are. Strengthen that which serves. Create that which you aspire to. And alter or discard that which you don’t desire.

We know ourselves from our past. We learn about ourselves with every single passing present moment.

Become.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
1 member likes this: LeeChild
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by LeeChild
I can't imagine anything she could do or say, no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship.

Lee, uncouple what you said. Uncouple how you are looking at this.

“…no scenario in which I would want to forgive and reconvene the relationship.”

Forgive and reconvene are two separate things.

Fine, you do not want to reconvene.

This requires more explanation.

To offer legitimate forgiveness, I have to trust and believe what she says. If she came to me wanting forgiveness and reconciliation some time soon, this would only be because her affair has fallen apart and she wants right back in a comfortable situation with me, the sucker.

That is why I say that, as of right now, I will not forgive. I do not believe that forgiveness would be what she REALLY wants, it would only be empty, manipulative words.

Forgiveness requires repentance. She needs to truly regret. If, at some point in the future she really wants my forgiveness, she has it. She has it, really, even before she asks in the case of genuine contrition.

But that is not who she is right now. She may want forgiveness in the "I am sorry for what my actions have caused, however I am still glad I did this, and if I had to do it all over again, I would do it again." -- type of way.

I won't grant her that sort of forgiveness.

Last edited by LeeChild; 11/03/21 03:43 PM.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,680
Likes: 254
Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself - to let go. You don't even have to say anything to her. It's just about understanding she's a flawed person who is struggling and letting go of the resentment.

I wouldn't have me ex back on a platter, but I work on seeing the ways in which he struggled (depression, possible mild bipolar, family of origin issues). It doesn't excuse his infidelity but seeing where it came from makes it easier for me to let go of the resentment.

Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, job, Virginia 

Link Copied to Clipboard