But basically, four years ago my husband confessed (in true trickle truth fashion) that he had had an affair. Eventually it came out that it was a two year affair, and it was with a good friend of mine. We have been married for 24 years and have three kids. He is someone who has trouble dealing with emotions and puts up walls like crazy and is very avoidant.
A year ago, he told me he wanted a divorce and told me what he thought it would look like (not anywhere on planet reality). He told me he felt he had already tried to make things work, he didn't feel a connection with me and basically considered us roommates. I was devastated. He stopped all sexual antimacy and basically any physical affection. I tried to DB the best I could, but my emotions and hopes were tough to deal with.
I basically came to the point about three months ago that I'm pretty much done with him. I don't really care anymore if he wants me or wants to be with me or what he thinks about me. I came to the realization that I deserve better than this. But we do have a lot of time and a family invested in this, and I want to make sure I have done everything I can do before I D. I bought the LRT program on the website when it was on sale for Black Friday. Turns out it's way easier to LRT when you don't care.
So for the past three months I have kept my mouth shut. I haven't had any expectations, I've been working on myself and my happiness and keeping busy. I don't chase him, I haven't tried to talk to him about anything. After a few weeks, he will hold my hand occasionally or hug me. I was pretty shocked when it happened. Mind you, we haven't had sex in a year but we sleep in the same bed. Then usually a wall goes back up and he shuts me out for a few days. In my mind, I don't care and it's none of my business. He is an adult, and if I have upset him in some way, or he just wants to share something with me, that's up to him. Otherwise, I can't control it.
About a month ago, he said that he still felt like we were roommates but now didn't want to divorce because of the kids. His idea is to stay together until the youngest one is out of the house (about 7 years from now). I told him nope. If we are doing our best to go in the same direction with our marriage, that's one thing, but if he wants a loveless, sexless marriage for seven years that's a hard pass for me. I was proud of myself because I was totally calm in this conversation. I didn't cry and I didn't get upset. I told him that it wasn't a game or a threat for me, I was just letting him know what I can do and what I can't. I had a consultation with a lawyer to know my rights and what a divorce would look like for me in our state. I felt like I would file after the holidays. Meanwhile, he would throw me off a bit because he would still show some affection and then wall up. My approach remained the same.
Today we had therapy. We've been going about a year and I like our therapist. He's marriage friendly. Anyway, H brought up he is at a place when he accepts this is all our relationship is and he is fine with staying for a few years but he feels like he has tried everything and feels no connection with me. No mention of the past few weeks and small displays of affection.
I guess I'm just trying to figure out my plan for the holidays as far as being able to keep going and enjoy them no matter what. I'm tired and not sure if good things are happening or if it's not enough anyway. I've been doing this for four years - six if you count the affair - and it's lonely. When do you keep going because there's progress and when is enough enough? Is there really progress, or am I imagining it. It p*sses me off when he reaches over and holds my hand and then later says we have nothing in common and we are roommates. I don't want a divorce, but I don't want this either. I just am tired of this roller coaster. I feel like his uber driver (he travels for work) and the one who makes sure there is dinner every night and a clean house.
me: 46 h: 49 m: 24 T: 27 DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019 Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
I could not live like that. I tried and it only lasted a few weeks.
You deserve better than the constant feeling of being used. Eventually most people will crack under that kind of stress, and that's not what you or your kids need in your lives.
You can't control him. You can't make him feel any different than he does. I think you know that.
Save yourself. Nobody is coming! BD:11/2017 Filed:12/2017 Final: 2/2018
maybe the handholding stuff is progress, and maybe it's not. It's hard to know. If it is, though, you don't want to make a big deal about it-- remember the whole treating him like a feral cat thing. I'd be super sure not to act like it means anything (sounds like that is already what you're doing).
If you feel like an Uber driver... stop driving him to and from the airport. Let him get his own dang Uber. You have better things to do, even if the better thing is just not feeling resentful anymore about driving him around. It sounds like you're doing a great job at focusing on you and not letting what he is or isn't doing or feeling bother you-- that is huge, congrats on getting there!!-- but if there are still things you do for him because he's your H, unless those things give you pleasure or you'd do them anyway-- like it is more of a PITA to not set him a place at dinner than to just let him eat with the family-- I'd really think about stopping. Anything that you find brings out the resentment, maybe take a break from those things for now.
A number of people have told me that you'll know when you're done. you will know, in your heart, when you're ready to throw in the towel and move on. I've committed to keeping a close eye on how my children are faring and trying to take a really hard and honest look at how the family environment is, because if I feel that they'd do better with us apart than together, I'm out. We aren't there, but I know that resentment can really build and turn things toxic (one of the reasons I'm recommending being sure YOU are as happy and fulfilled as you possibly can be under the circumstances). In any case, maybe you can come up with what your reasons to walk might be, when your calculus of when the benefits of leaving outweigh the benefits of staying. But trust yourself to know when that time is right, and do whatever you need to do now to be sure you can pull that final trigger when you need to.
xx hang in there, OG. I'm so glad to hear from you. M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I’m sorry you are still struggling four years later.
The mind is very powerful thing and if he feels he will never have romantic feelings fo you then he won’t no matter what changes you make. He’s looking for the same feelings from you that he got from the affair and that’s just not possible.
I’m really wondering why your still in counseling because with his mindset your just wasting money? A two year affair with you one of your good friends is a pretty serious behavior that should have never been tolerated.
Time and space are the only thing that turn these situations around long term. For things to work it he needs to see you area a person of value, that life is better with you then it is alone or with anyone else and he is willing to work to have you.
I think you understand where you are what you need to do and getting there is the hard part.
Thanks for your replies, everyone. Reality is so hard sometimes. I think that's why I've been focusing so hard on empowering myself and seeing my value. He has some deep issues and I can't make him work on it. And I don't want to, anyway. We each have to do that on our own.
Joe2017 - I thought i could live like that. I really wanted to keep things stable for my kids as we make a good family. But after a few months I realized that I can't. I was dying inside.
May - Lots of good thoughts. i do need to step back and see what I need to stop doing. I did not pick him up at the airport last week as I had a lot on my plate to do and I wanted to honor that. Before I always wanted to please. The kids part is the worst. I hate hurting my kids. It's like so weird -- we make this really good family. We go on vacation together and have fun together and watch movies etc etc, no wonder he doesn't want to leave. BUT it's been awful for me. So lonely. I don't want a divorce, but I don't want to live like this either. I feel like my situation is "which bad choice would you like to make?" You know? It's like horrible choice one or two. Which one [censored] less? I hate it.
LH19 - we are still in counseling because our church offered to pay for it. So it's not coming out of our account. I do understand where I am, all you say resonates with me. I have been allowing myself to accept and grieve.
I have mentioned him moving out before but he gets really mad. And obviously I cant make him leave. I would him move out after the holidays. Not sure how to approach that.
What confuses me sometimes on how long to wait to leave is that in DB she has stories of people where the spouse acted like this for a very long time and then began to come back. But I don't want to waste more of my life. I just hate that affects not just me, but my kids.
me: 46 h: 49 m: 24 T: 27 DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019 Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
What confuses me sometimes on how long to wait to leave is that in DB she has stories of people where the spouse acted like this for a very long time and then began to come back. But I don't want to waste more of my life. I just hate that affects not just me, but my kids.
It does happen. When I went to Retrouvaille there was a coaching couple there that had been married for 35 years I think. After they had been married around 20 years, the husband went full WAS. He started drinking heavily, partying, having affairs, treated his W like he hated her. Actually begged her to leave, but wouldn't do the work himself. She on the other hand remained faithful and loyal but also did not put up with his crap. She basically went about her life and let him go do his thing. But she refused to give up on the M, and she told him so whenever he said he wanted a D. If I remember right they kept living under the same roof, but he was gone so much that it didn't seem like it. She talked him into going to Retrouvaille and he by his own admission sat there with his arms crossed and a frown on his face the entire weekend. He refused to participate in any of the exercises.
Eventually he hit rock bottom and repented his ways and wanted to try Retrouvaille again. The 2nd time he was a changed person, fully embraced it. They later became volunteer coaches for Retrou and had been doing it for 15 years. He was so ashamed of his behavior he could not tell the story without crying about it even all those years later. He said he felt such shame telling it, but felt like that was the price he should pay for what he had done. He didn't know why he did what he did, he has been a loyal H before it happened and was again after it happened. He really gushed over how amazing his W had been, and how he didn't deserve her.
People change, but they do sometimes change back too. My XW has slowly become more like her old self, it's happened very slowly over years. Others snap back practically overnight. Others never go back at all. You've just got to decide what is best for you and your kids because there are no guarantees he'll never be "normal" again.
What confuses me sometimes on how long to wait to leave is that in DB she has stories of people where the spouse acted like this for a very long time and then began to come back. But I don't want to waste more of my life. I just hate that affects not just me, but my kids.
It does happen. When I went to Retrouvaille there was a coaching couple there that had been married for 35 years I think. After they had been married around 20 years, the husband went full WAS. He started drinking heavily, partying, having affairs, treated his W like he hated her. Actually begged her to leave, but wouldn't do the work himself. She on the other hand remained faithful and loyal but also did not put up with his crap. She basically went about her life and let him go do his thing. But she refused to give up on the M, and she told him so whenever he said he wanted a D. If I remember right they kept living under the same roof, but he was gone so much that it didn't seem like it. She talked him into going to Retrouvaille and he by his own admission sat there with his arms crossed and a frown on his face the entire weekend. He refused to participate in any of the exercises.
Eventually he hit rock bottom and repented his ways and wanted to try Retrouvaille again. The 2nd time he was a changed person, fully embraced it. They later became volunteer coaches for Retrou and had been doing it for 15 years. He was so ashamed of his behavior he could not tell the story without crying about it even all those years later. He said he felt such shame telling it, but felt like that was the price he should pay for what he had done. He didn't know why he did what he did, he has been a loyal H before it happened and was again after it happened. He really gushed over how amazing his W had been, and how he didn't deserve her.
People change, but they do sometimes change back too. My XW has slowly become more like her old self, it's happened very slowly over years. Others snap back practically overnight. Others never go back at all. You've just got to decide what is best for you and your kids because there are no guarantees he'll never be "normal" again.
WOW this is great. And so true. I can echo a lot of this in my own sitch.
My W did not snap back overnight. Though to many here it looked like it. While it still took her weeks, due to the length of most people's sitches and limbo, it seem very fast. But she went into turning back to the marriage very reluctantly. She was sure that if she ever came back to the MR she'd be miserable for the rest of her life. I was a lot like the women in the story AS shared in that she continued to say she wanted a D. I continued to let her have time and space to figure things out. She could have gone and filed for D anytime she wanted.
Limbo was brutal. I tell the story occasionally about the night she went into the guest bathroom. For 1 1/2 hours. I knew she was in there texting OM, probably sharing explicit photos. I even had the urge at one point to sneak to the door and peak under it. I am so glad I did not because I know for a fact that I would hate myself to this day for stooping to such a low level. The shame would be unbearable. Weeks later it was revealed that my suspicions that night were dead on. Yet I stayed the course. We were IHS. I was working on me. Becoming the man only a fool would leave. I let her have her time and space. I stopped obsessing over what she was doing every minute of every day. It is funny how WASs can feel that pressure even when you aren't pressuring them directly!
It wasn't until I have completely let go, let her move on to decide what she wanted, and started to embrace the future no matter what it held that she started to turn back. I am on record here that given enough time the WAS almost always will want to come back. Sometimes it is weeks. Sometimes months. Sometimes years. Sometimes even decades! A lot of times by time that happens the LBS has moved on themselves and is no longer interested. The real question OG is how long can you wait?
When LBSs ask "how long should I wait" I typically will tell them that you give the WAS enough time that you can look back without regrets and say "I gave them every opportunity to come back" without question or guilt. When you get to that point you will know it. It sounds like you are too that point. No one, not even your H, could blame you. You gave it everything, and he still has nearly 1 month to come around and decide to work on the marriage. You have an end goal now OG, I am sure that is very freeing to you. I know when I set my drop-dead in my sitch, I felt so good knowing where I was heading.
Keep posting and let us know how things go the next few weeks. Oh, and welcome back!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Wow AS, what a story!! And what a woman. That is clearly one of the best case scenarios, but like you and Steve said, how long can you wait?
Sometimes I think I can. Sometimes I feel like a doormat.
Steve I am inspired by your journey also. Did you have any time frame in your mind?
I go back and forth. I am in my mid-forties, and I don’t want to waste time on someone who resents me. I feel like he has shame and issues, and his pattern is that it is my fault. If I were different, or didn’t ever trigger him everything would be fine. But he has to learn how to handle his own feelings. I have come SO FAR in four years. Before I was more emotional and would fly off the handle. I am pretty calm now and try to handle my own feelings as well. I also don’t want a loveless, sexless marriage.
My biggest goal to figure out right now is how do I honor myself and set boundaries while also staying w him. For example, we sleep in the same bed, but sleeping is all the action going on there. Should I ask him to go to a different bedroom? He asks me to take him to the airport and pick him up. Should I keep doing that? These are the boundaries I am trying to figure out. I don’t want to be taken for granted, but I do want to be my best self.
I am pretty sure he is not involved w anyone else. But it doesn’t seem normal for him to refuse sex for a year. I don’t know what to think about that.
Our therapist has an assignment for us to write three things we need from the other for the holiday season, and three things we can give to them. I am totally empty on this. I don’t know what I need from him. I’ve worked hard to need nothing. Expect nothing. My H mumbled it doesn’t have anything to do with our relationship. I said I think it just depends on what you need. I am so determined to enjoy Christmas with my kids.
My 25th anniversary is in May. We never talk about it or plan for it, of course. So sad. Thanks for your advice here. I feel like these boards are one of the only places where someone really gets what you’re doing through.
me: 46 h: 49 m: 24 T: 27 DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019 Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
OG, yes I had a timeline. I set one year past BD. In my case BD was 12/23, so I set the Monday after New Years to file for D. I was giving her one year to recommit to the marriage. This was not a timeline I shared with her, it was for me. I was not filing to wake her up, I was going to file to get a D. Just like you I had spoken to a lawyer, got a free consult, and I was ready to move forward. (By the way, to any LBS that might be reading this, talking to the lawyer was one of the best things I ever did! It really alleviated a lot of anxiety I had about the D.)
As far as the bed, as long as he is NOT actively involved in a PA, there is no reason to kick him out of the bed. Once you file if you want you can ask him to sleep elsewhere. I would stop driving him to the airport. That is what a W does for a H and he has fired you as his W. I put that in the "cake-eating" category.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Our therapist has an assignment for us to write three things we need from the other for the holiday season, and three things we can give to them. I am totally empty on this. I don’t know what I need from him. I’ve worked hard to need nothing. Expect nothing. My H mumbled it doesn’t have anything to do with our relationship. I said I think it just depends on what you need. I am so determined to enjoy Christmas with my kids.
Yeah this is tough. The problem with most MCs is they do not know how to handle couples where one or both has checked out of the MR. So the homework assignments and exercises are about reconnecting. The last thing a checked out spouse wants. Our MC was really good at detecting that my W was checked out and tailoring her approach to that. It turned into IC for me (the checked in spouse) with my WAW present. Until she was ready to engage and then it transitioned into more of traditional MC. That sounds like what is going on with your MC, he isn't getting that you aren't at a place where reconnection can work.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
