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Re: From Monster to Angel, only possible in MLC [Re: Eagle3] #2917412
04/02/21 02:53 PM
04/02/21 02:53 PM
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Good Morning Eagle

I understand the mixed emotions rising up after the call.

With each call and as time goes by, we keep getting better and better at letting go our expectations and letting our temporary feelings flit. It is perfectly normal for one feel and expect after interactions. Our control is in us letting go of those and returning to our core self again. It gets easier to to step back and view the big picture. Don’t worry, you are doing fine - experience makes masters of us all.

I am glad to see you are planning on remaining in the house during H’s upcoming visit. Be kind and cordial. Friendly not friends. His visiting is no stranger than anything else on these weird paths. I suspect you may learn some things depending on how loquacious H feels like being; the less you say the more he will. Most just can’t help themselves, and they blurt out. Keep boundaries when necessary and filter out any projections and blame-ridden justifications - do not take the bait.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Since OW1 "was the love of his life", do they have the same feeling about OW2? I almost can't believe this is possible?

An OW2 is possible. The answer you don’t want to the unasked question - an OW2 is actually quite probable as well.

The other woman is just a band-aid. She is just a shinny object which the crisis person runs to, in their ineffective attempts to escape their pain and torment.

A MLCer’s feelings are a mess. Emotions cranked up to bizarre levels. As such, irrational behaviours and decisions abound. Their feelings are real and like all feelings - temporary. And as their own feelings flit and start and stop and shift and so on, they keep feeding their narrative. They have too.

“The love of their life”. That is equally comical as it is sad. My XW stated she was 100% completely faithful to OM. Think about that statement, and the head space one has to be within for that to make sense. A faithful loving relationship of 30 years, a family, four children - all thrown away. Her months new boyfriend, the now love of her life and she is faithful to him. Funny and sad.

These tormented people are very lost. They desperately grasp at whatever and whoever they can to make themselves feel better. To feel anything. They are not faithful. They do not love themselves. They, therefore, cannot love anyone else.

It is not uncommon to have subsequent affairs. Their first affair is really illicit and based upon lies and deceit, for it breaks up the marriage. It becomes easier to pretend further affairs are “better” as they are not based upon such impure acts. Lol. Such funny sad desperation. Wholesome marriages have a high enough failure rate, imagine the failure rate of affairs. Some stick to just one, and others go through many. It matters not. For all of those are built upon sand and exist in the shadowy world. All are illicit and carry a heavy high price on an already tormented soul.

And therein lies another big problem. The guilt. The affair and running furthers their pain. These crisis people are emotional driven with no empathy nor regard for anyone else. They will quite literally; and this is actually literal not just figurative; step over their own children to run to their new partner, and selfish chance at happiness. And the guilt compounds.

Each partner is “the love of their life”. They have to be. They need to be. Therefore, the MLCer makes it so. The MLCer has destroyed so much in their path and they have to double down and keep plunging deeper. Remember just how terrible and consuming a crisis is and how desperate a MLCer is to escape. And desperate people to desperate things. Affairs, drugs, spending, illegal behaviours, and such - all running. All an attempt at finding that high; finding some feeling in their blank tormented lives; finding some purpose; finding some relief. Of course, one cannot outrun themselves. And their attempts are fruitless, and the pressures and trauma(s) of their past will not be silenced that easily. And until they tire enough, they will not look within, and they run.

OW1, OW2, the made up feelings towards that person - all a temporary fantasy reality created by a tormented mind and soul. Some find their way back. Some do not. And no one knows the future or anyone’s outcome.

We, LBS, live our best path, for ourselves, and let go. We become.

Experience makes masters of us all.

D


Now: Me53 XW49 S24 S22 S20 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
Re: From Monster to Angel, only possible in MLC [Re: DnJ] #2917516
04/07/21 08:36 PM
04/07/21 08:36 PM
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ
With each call and as time goes by, we keep getting better and better at letting go our expectations and letting our temporary feelings flit. It is perfectly normal for one feel and expect after interactions. Our control is in us letting go of those and returning to our core self again. It gets easier to to step back and view the big picture. Don’t worry, you are doing fine - experience makes masters of us all.D


And for sure we gain experience. You are right about the getting easier part. A few months ago it would have taken weeks before I could give this a place, now it only takes a few days and I realize I don't need him to be happy. Yes, I sympathize with him but it no longer dominates my life. More than ever I realize that he will have to do what is necessary to get his life back on track, that no one can do this for him.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I am glad to see you are planning on remaining in the house during H’s upcoming visit. Be kind and cordial. Friendly not friends. His visiting is no stranger than anything else on these weird paths. I suspect you may learn some things depending on how loquacious H feels like being; the less you say the more he will. Most just can’t help themselves, and they blurt out. Keep boundaries when necessary and filter out any projections and blame-ridden justifications - do not take the bait.D


Will definitely do so. I have also planned some activities with friends and family on my own, this way he will have some time alone to spent with the kids.

I also want to share a bit of the actions I see the last weeks. His behavior has changed since his last visit. I have not heard or seen the anger, the monster behavior so far anymore.

There is even a serious change in behavior towards our children. In recent years, H has been very focused on their school performances and it was never good in his eyes. He was always very strict when their results were a little less and also the school reviews were hell for both myself and the teachers as he was always very informative, used difficult words to express his own cleverness and regularly thwarted the teachers.

In fact, when they received their last performance in December, it was so bad that he bullied all 3 kids over the phone to the point that all 3 cried. It was then that my eldest was so angry with him that I told him to call back to his father to express his feelings which he did.

Last week there was another performance review.
What a change ... for the first time in 4 years, we had a pleasant review. It was online, he also called in and openly congratulated each of his sons and even thanked the teachers.

He also calls the children twice a week now. Sometimes even separately to each of them, which he never did before. I am pleased to see this, hopefully he continues to build on this positive behavior.

Things are also friendly between us. When he calls them and I am nearby, I always say hello briefly and we do some small talk.

I also know that last week he called his father with whom he has not had any contact for more than 6 months now. He has asked him to be more frequently in touch with each other again, also confirmed to him that he is seeing an IC and that the process is not easy but realizes that this is what he needs.

I was surprised to see the thread of Grace21 today. I was attracted to it and took the time to read the whole story.
It felt good to read this.

I was also very moved how the same people that I now meet here regularly have assisted her so well all the way through.

DnJ, Job, Gerda, Dejavu6, OwnIt, Kml and so many others. I want to reiterate how deeply grateful I am that this forum exists and the lessons we are learning here on how to deal with this exceptional situation.

Only the fact that you can express your feelings is very important in itself, but also the fact that you are assisted with advice and action is more than I could ever expect.

Anyway, I wish all of you a nice Easter week. If I need some help when he is here next week, which will most probably be the case, I will not hesitate to reach out to you.

Last edited by Eagle3; 04/07/21 08:39 PM.

Me (43) H (42)
M:14 T:18, S16, S13 & S13
4/19 BD1 ILYB & OW1 until 02/20
02/20-08/20 Home
08/20 Moves abroad for W
12/20 BD2 wants divorce, I agree (possible OW2)
02/21 I file since no action from H
Re: From Monster to Angel, only possible in MLC [Re: Eagle3] #2917620
04/10/21 12:50 AM
04/10/21 12:50 AM
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Hello Eagle

You sound great my dear. Strong and grounded.

The difference in H’s behaviour is pretty interesting. How he approached and conferred during the performance reviews is quite a change. And it is good to see him calling and talking to the kids.

It is also interesting to see H reaching out to his father. Most folks have unfinished business with their parent(s). We all must rebel a certain amount as we stand on our own feet, leaving adolescence and entering adulthood. One usually at some point makes peace and seeks to repair from their rebelling.

A crisis person has their past trauma(s), present rebelling, and so many other transgressions to make peace with. They have to start somewhere which is from the least to most significant person and the hurt they inflicted. From pets, friends, parents, kids, to spouse. (More or less the order). H is talking to his kids and to his Dad. He is even behaving nicely during school conferences.

You wisely know H’s path is his to travel, and are letting him. Keep it up. He will most likely turn more to you in the next while - if he has it in himself. Dig for patience my girl. Pressure-free and let him lead his path. All while you live/love your life.

I’m glad you found and read Grace’s thread. She’s a great gal and one heck of an inspiring person.

By the way, do not sell yourself short in that department. You are doing really well and quite the inspiration also. Exceptional situations birth exceptional people.

D


Now: Me53 XW49 S24 S22 S20 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
Visit of H [Re: DnJ] #2917688
04/12/21 09:38 AM
04/12/21 09:38 AM
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ
You sound great my dear. Strong and grounded.D

Thanks DnJ. I feel very strong indeed. H arrived last Saturday. When he arrived he gave me a firm hug and a kiss on my forehead and also brought a small present. Nothing special, something I normally ask regularly if he comes over but since some time now not anymore seen the current situation but he brought it anyway, without me asking.

Strange how detached I feel now. Even the hug didn’t give mixed emotions, it actually didn’t do anything. The only emotion I had was compassion, definitely because of the way he looked. Old, skinny, tired.

I know now the meaning of full detachment. For about a year I thought on regular basis, now I’m there, I’ve reached that level, but I was not. It is difficult to explain but you will know once you’ve reached that stage. That’s for sure.


Originally Posted by DnJ
You wisely know H’s path is his to travel, and are letting him. Keep it up. He will most likely turn more to you in the next while - if he has it in himself. Dig for patience my girl. Pressure-free and let him lead his path. All while you live/love your life. D


H did not share anything yet and I’m not sure he will this week. I see a lot of depression in him, (sleeps a lot, not active at all, signs and complaints of illness) but also still a bit of running behavior. But most important, he is friendly for now. Hope he stays that way the whole week.

Some questions for which I seek advice:

1/ I have a very close connection with his family and they know the situation very well since they have experienced his behavior several times over the past year. I also still see all of them on a weekly basis and they have been a huge support. My BIL and SIL now asked me to come over and have lunch this week with H and kids and they would prefer to have me there as well. I would like to go. Would send a text message to H (then I don’t confront him with the message f2f and he can think about it): Hey ... and ... asked us all to come for lunch next Saturday with kids. Would you like to go? If you prefer to go alone with kids, not a problem. Just let me know.

2/ Divorce: he hasn’t mentioned anything as yet since 2 weeks. Most important decision to make. Him buying me out ref. the house. He requested for a loan in our home country but the banks denied it since he doesn’t live here anymore.
He then told me he would try to get a loan in the country he currently lives but I did not yet receive an answer. Should I ask for it? I would like to know since we need to sell it then and now it is the excellent timing for it to put on it on the market.

I simply want to keep things going. I have reached the level of being OK with or without him.

Originally Posted by DnJ
You are doing really well and quite the inspiration also. Exceptional situations birth exceptional people.D


This sentence made me feel so happy, you can’t imagine how much! smile

Last edited by Eagle3; 04/12/21 09:48 AM.

Me (43) H (42)
M:14 T:18, S16, S13 & S13
4/19 BD1 ILYB & OW1 until 02/20
02/20-08/20 Home
08/20 Moves abroad for W
12/20 BD2 wants divorce, I agree (possible OW2)
02/21 I file since no action from H
Re: Visit of H [Re: Eagle3] #2917721
04/12/21 11:55 PM
04/12/21 11:55 PM
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DnJ Offline
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Hello Eagle

Glad to see H’s visit started out nicely. How long is he planning on staying?

Indifference, that feeling of nothing, is a weird place. Detachment uncoupled your emotional responses from H’s emotions and actions. Indifference attenuates your emotions regarding H; attenuates, lessens, not erased. In that void of the somewhat numbness toward H, other feelings will look larger than they really are. Something to consider while walking your path. This flows directly into finding, fixing, and following our beliefs and values.

Next Saturday’s lunch invitation. You got an invitation, did H as well? Either way, gently, maybe during lunch, tell him you are going. You are living/visiting under the same roof. Approach it like he is going to say yes. As if that is how it will be. Most times we can lead - gently - by just approaching things clearly without the vagueness. Don’t worry, if H says he is not going, change gears and continue going forward.

Indifference. There is no need to walk on eggshells. He is there, talk to him face to face. A text message - which has valid uses especially when not immediately in person - while in the same household presents one of two different views. First is that you are timid and do not want to upset him or rock the boat. The second view, has such a message looking passive aggressive, like something a teenager would do; text from the living room so they don’t have to talk to you.

Neither of those is what you want to portrait. And neither is the actual case. So talk to him. If he doesn’t like it, fine go on the visit without knowing what he is doing. Remember, H wanted to stay at the house during his visit. And he is currently being pleasant. No need to borrow trouble.

The divorce discussion is along the same lines. H chose to visit under the same roof; the ideal place and time to discuss certain items. You want to proceed with obtaining financial security and protection, from last we discussed. Unless your view has changed, proceed.

Of course, not at the same time as the visiting discussion; H and pressure do not mix. Lol. These two items are needed discussions and not relationship talks. Keep emotions out of it. Find your indifference and be mostly business-like. And one can be compassionate and kind, while getting business done.

I’m sure you will do fine.

And glad to see you so happy!

D


Now: Me53 XW49 S24 S22 S20 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
Re: Visit of H [Re: DnJ] #2917724
04/13/21 11:13 AM
04/13/21 11:13 AM
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Glad to see H’s visit started out nicely. How long is he planning on staying?D


Haha, sometimes a person should better not speak too soon...the first signs resurfited yesterday (very, very quickly irritated by children's behaviour, can't handle much), but overall still OK. wink
He is staying until next Monday, so 10 days in total.

Originally Posted by DnJ
In that void of the somewhat numbness toward H, other feelings will look larger than they really are. Something to consider while walking your path. This flows directly into finding, fixing, and following our beliefs and values.D


Thanks for that. I will definitely take this into account

I asked this morning in regards to the invitation at his Brother's house and he simply said OK. Nothing more, nothing less. So he is coming. I'm actually not surprised because very few times he went to family (even his) with kids alone since BD. He always prefers I'm there as well. (I guess he needs the strenght?)

Originally Posted by DnJ
The divorce discussion is along the same lines. H chose to visit under the same roof; the ideal place and time to discuss certain items.D


I guess I will need to ask for a timing to discuss these things since kids are there most of the time.
Will wait some days and ask towards the weekend. Not because I have fear, simply because I don't want a stressfull situation around the kids since you never know how he will deal with it.

Have a lovely day!

Last edited by Eagle3; 04/13/21 11:19 AM.

Me (43) H (42)
M:14 T:18, S16, S13 & S13
4/19 BD1 ILYB & OW1 until 02/20
02/20-08/20 Home
08/20 Moves abroad for W
12/20 BD2 wants divorce, I agree (possible OW2)
02/21 I file since no action from H
Re: Visit of H [Re: Eagle3] #2917751
04/13/21 07:41 PM
04/13/21 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle3
Strange how detached I feel now. Even the hug didn’t give mixed emotions, it actually didn’t do anything. The only emotion I had was compassion, definitely because of the way he looked. Old, skinny, tired.

You sound in a zen place. You say you're okay with or without him--I suspect he's already lost his chance. Sympathy isn't exactly what he'd want you to feel, if he were hoping to pitch, "Hey! Let's get back together."


May'19 - separation. | Dec'19, Oct'20, Jan'21 - painful breakups. | Jan'21 - freedom!
"We the ones who play hard, we live hard, we love hard, we light up the dark." -- Kesha

Feedback of H's visit last week [Re: Eagle3] #2918232
04/26/21 09:06 PM
04/26/21 09:06 PM
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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It is time for an update since we have a lot to share again. It seems like I'm keeping a diary here and also get some top advice which is so much needed. blush

His mother came to visit him on Wednesday. Of course I was there too. The relationship between him and his mother has always been a love-hate relationship. This is the same with his brothers and sister, but they have distanced themselves from her for some time and openly speak how she really is like. He has also recognized this for a long time, but partly due to his crisis, he has enormous difficulties facing this. He does talk to other people about knowing who she is, but there is no mentioning of her and his feelings towards her directly.

She talks towards her son in the following terms: how good you look today my dear, what a wonderful sweet boy you are, you are the best at everything you do, etc. In short, no normal behavior to act towards an adult son. However, she only does this with him, not with her other children, only with the yongest sometimes. (very strange situation actually and very difficult for outsiders to act upon)

His sister recently told me that he has become the person he never wanted to be - his own mother. That they are very much alike now...

The trauma he has to deal with can clearly be found there, that's one certainty.

That same evening, when she was there, he again lashed out at our eldest son. I've always taught them (after reading here so many times) that when H says hurtful words to them, they should just get up, say they're going to another room and not argue with him. My son was wise enough to do this, my H told him to stay seated, my son said firmly but politely that he was not going to do this because of the way he was addressed and still left. What a strength. I was so proud of him and told him afterwards. cool

MIL sat there and looked at it, a situation I know she always looks forward to very hard, to be able to tell later to anyone who wants to hear about it. I told him briefly that I do not tolerate such behavior towards the children and that we would still talk about it, but not while MIL was there.

On Thursday I did recall this behaviour (maybe I shouldn't but I still did) and meanwhile raised some issues about the divorce (especially with regards to the financial aspect). Also about the house, that I would like an update about whether he would purchase or not, that otherwise we will have to proceed with the sale of the house.
Result: spewing, angry H. Made statements like "force me to sell it, you can do that you know", then about the fact that he is under the assumption that I am far from over him, that I still want him but he does not need me anymore, that he would never want me back, etc.

I stayed very calm and polite and said that I no longer want R talk because there is no R anymore and that I just want to handle everything financially. That I am a happy person and that I want nothing more then to settle everything in an adult and polite way, a must in the interest of the children as well.

Next day received several very friendly messages etc. So clearly knew that he had crossed the line again. Just politely answered back.

Saturday visit at BIL (is his brother) and SIL. 2 fantastic people. H was very happy to be there and showed himself (up to a certain point) from his best side. However, the booze flowed freely and he was completely wasted by the end of the evening. Just before that talked about MIL openly, all 4 parties together and we were all on the same track. H also confirmed her manipulative behavior.

Especially SIL has a very difficult relationship with MIL. I can put everything in persective and leave it more behind a little faster but SIL has openly said to her own husband and to us that MIL is a very very bad person because of what she says and does, that she understands that it is their mother but that she had reached some limits. MIL always talks badly about other people to come out well herself, she even goes so far as to do this continuously about her own children, children-in-law and grand children, but she forgets that these people also speak to each other...
SIL can no longer deal with it, but she doesn't want to start a fight, so she remains silent.

Then later, on the way back in the car, at one point he took my hand and started rubbing it (of course he was drunk). He did this for a while put at a certain point I gently pulled my hand back as it felt a bit uncomfortable.

Sunday last day. During the day he went away with the children so that I could have a day to myself. (surprisingly he had suggested himself)

In the evening he wanted to talk. I had already seen it coming as it was the last day before he left.
(He emptied 1 bottle of wine in ½ hour to be able to talk)

Talked about his visits to the psychiatrist, that he knows himself better than I could ever imagine, that he knows he is a manipulative control freak and a sociopath (his own words) and that he would like his records from the past when he was little to see if this had been diagnosed at the time but that his mother may have kept this from him. (again given the tip where he can request his records, to him to take the action).
That he is unhappy there, drinks way too much etc. just listened and validated.

Left on Monday with very mixed feelings, that much was clear.

As far as I am concerned, being able to keep my distance. Emotional too. Furthermore, took the necessary financial steps that were necessary to be able to continue the divorce based on the little information I got from him the days before. The biggest obstacle is the house. Let's hope this gets settled very soon as well.

In the meanwhile I got a invitation from very good friends to go on a vacation with them to their top luxury appartment in Summer with the children. I kindly accepted it. LOL

Live is good, never thought I would say this again a few months ago. smile



Last edited by Eagle3; 04/26/21 09:08 PM.

Me (43) H (42)
M:14 T:18, S16, S13 & S13
4/19 BD1 ILYB & OW1 until 02/20
02/20-08/20 Home
08/20 Moves abroad for W
12/20 BD2 wants divorce, I agree (possible OW2)
02/21 I file since no action from H
May this be a small step in facing his FOO’s? [Re: Eagle3] #2918652
05/07/21 08:24 PM
05/07/21 08:24 PM
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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I was just reading the story of HaWho and was amazed to read that the children had to hide the marriage from her all this time. This must be really incredibly difficult for kids of this age. Respect!

I also read the reactions and could understand from this that an MLC’er constantly rewrites his history in the running phase, clearly lives in a fantasy world and does not admit that he has serious problems he has to deal with, but does it also happen that they show both signals?

That they openly say that they have a problem but that they still function quite well on the outside? (of course do not know to what level as he hides his live very well but sometimes tells something, like ‘just did a diving course during a weekend with X and Y’, his new MLC friends)

The reason why I am asking this is because we called this week for some financial matters, his next visit + holiday arrangements for the children.
He sounded normal for the first time in a long time, was completely sober (otherwise always drunk when he has to arrange stuff with me, or sober but then very cold person) and was very accommodating on all of the above.
His next visit is just before the children's exams and he asked if it might not be better to postpone it for a few weeks because his visit could have too much of an impact on their preparation (which is very much the case), crazy to hear now he finally realizes he has a huge impact on their emotions because of his behavior. Also financially very helpful, do what is good for you, I have so much on my mind at the moment, so much to deal with, I know you will handle everything with respect.

I did not give a lot of reaction, simply validated, but thought this was all a bit bizarre...

Last edited by Eagle3; 05/07/21 08:27 PM.

Me (43) H (42)
M:14 T:18, S16, S13 & S13
4/19 BD1 ILYB & OW1 until 02/20
02/20-08/20 Home
08/20 Moves abroad for W
12/20 BD2 wants divorce, I agree (possible OW2)
02/21 I file since no action from H
Re: May this be a small step in facing his FOO’s? [Re: Eagle3] #2918677
05/08/21 05:16 PM
05/08/21 05:16 PM
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Posts: 2,900
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Good Morning Eagle

The update regarding H’s visit and his behaviour is very interesting. And yes, the relationship between him and his Mom is pretty telling of where H’s trauma originates. Like most, childhood experiences, one’s where the child was too young to understand or accept what happened and internalizes it. Makes the event about themselves, and therefore blames themselves. This incorrect adoption of blame and guilt is buried deep within the young and emotionally immature person. Many years later, a trigger - an event, a death, a marriage, life, old age, etc... - uncovers these trauma(s) and the associated assumed guilt and such. And thus starts their mad driven running. The tormented individual needed to grow up from when they were emotionally traumatized and stunted; a task not easily accomplished.

H’s path shows many signs of a person in pain, conflict, and confusion at crisis levels. Everyone experiences mid life changes and transitions from one stage to the next. The mid life transition is a difficult one. One has worked their life, raise their kids, loved their family and friends - as they have. Their past is their past. One looks upon their life’s work to this point, with the realization that the sun will set upon them someday, and reflects. If one has lived well, respectfully, honourably, with minimal regrets, and so on, their path is one of ascension and progression towards those golden years (the next transition). One with a less honourable path and more regret-causing history will struggle more. A person with unrealized buried trauma(s) and unreconciled emotions enters into an emotional crisis, their transition being so difficult it becomes a mid life crisis.

The MLCer is completely unable to ascend. They cannot yet face their past, nor even realize the trauma(s). In time, hopefully, they grow enough to see their way forward. See the true cause of those long ago pains. And forgive themselves. For that is really the key and something which no one else can do for them.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
That same evening, when she was there, he again lashed out at our eldest son. I've always taught them (after reading here so many times) that when H says hurtful words to them, they should just get up, say they're going to another room and not argue with him. My son was wise enough to do this, my H told him to stay seated, my son said firmly but politely that he was not going to do this because of the way he was addressed and still left. What a strength. I was so proud of him and told him afterwards.

I am proud of you Eagle and your son. Well done my girl. What an excellent lesson and strength to pass on to your boys.

Your eldest, being 16 or 17, is an appropriate age to respond to Dad as well as leave the room. Son telling Dad he is leaving because of the way he is being addressed is good. It define son’s boundary, and enforces same.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I also read the reactions and could understand from this that an MLC’er constantly rewrites his history in the running phase, clearly lives in a fantasy world and does not admit that he has serious problems he has to deal with, but does it also happen that they show both signals?

That they openly say that they have a problem but that they still function quite well on the outside?

The answer is like most things in life - it depends. There are so many factors and variables in a situation, in a person’s life, that it depends upon many many things. Generalizations are possible and even “mostly” accurate, for that is why they are generalizations. However, nothing is guaranteed nor completely predictable.

Your inquiry is at the heart of the crisis. What is the person experiencing inside? We can guess, even have experienced educated guesses, yet no one really knows. Not even the crisis person. That is the level of an emotional crisis. One’s emotions are so out of control that running, that destroying their life, is their only way they feel they can maybe find happiness. They are so desperate, and desperate people do desperate things.

A person in crisis runs - from their past, from their present, from their future. The truth that they cannot see, they run from themselves - a futile effort, for no matter how far or fast you run, there you are.

In the running phase their history is rewritten. They dive into new behaviours, most of which push the boundaries, being immoral, illegal, dangerous, and so on. They are driven to feel something, anything to run from the pain, and to relieve that numb feeling. They cannot love, not even themselves. They lose the capacity for empathy and turn completely towards themselves, not in reflection just selfish fulfilment of desires. Spending, drinking, drugs, affairs and sex, etc. They now place their wants and wishes first and foremost, feeling somehow cheated over the years, and having missed out on their youth. Remember, these lost souls are tormented from long ago pains and are reliving that time over and over and over. It’s no wonder they run from such a hellish torment.

Thing about a crisis and running, it’s not an all or nothing affair. Yes, these people are much more driven emotionally than stable individuals. However, they are not insane. They are irrational. They behave irrationally. They make decisions irrationally. Mostly.

A MLCer can and usually does show both sides. Clear and almost reasonable thinking at times and complete disorder at other times. No one has experience dealing with such duality in their spouse or anyone until they do. An oddly self evident statement, and one that is easily missed. We all didn’t know about “real” MLC until we saw it for ourselves being expressed within our once loving spouse. We all needed to find understanding of such confusing and quite abnormal interaction.

We all have our four “cars” or lanes on our path of life - physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual. When focused upon one of these, we exist in only that car. Consider intellectual, when one is really thinking logically about something their emotions are not pushing and pressing upon them. When one digs a hole or works out, they are engrossed in that. No problems or pressures, only physical, and afterwards there is usually a clarity from such a break. We only drive one car at a time. (I do have a chapter on the subconscious autopilot of our lives, which I’d like to get written down sometime. Anyhow, consciously we only drive one car. smile )

This is the same for a person in crisis. They drive only one car at a time. For the most part MLCers are dragged back into their emotional car (much like we are right after bomb drop, before we find detachment) and spend quite a bit of time behind that particular wheel. And that is not a good place from which to make life altering decisions.

The MLCer still has their intellect. Their skill set. Their abilities. They can still work, play a piano, perform surgery, and such. Their life long training is not absent. Most MLCers hide in plain sight among the world’s population, only those closest to them knowing the terrible reality. Lawyers, doctors, clergy, clerks, managers, stay at home parents, whoever - MLC is nondiscriminatory. Gender, race, occupation, married, single, region, and such matters not - MLC can and does strike anyone.

The majority of MLCers can somewhat maintain their professional life, however there is a subset that completely burns down their life. They throw everything aside - kids, work, religion, faith, and so on. My XW is such an individual. Having worked from home, she would have too much pressure on her to remain in that employment having such a tangle of family/work/past all within her crisis.

Regardless, their outer appearance, their mask, is one of a good life. This is directly driven from their need to appear right. They must maintain their fantasy, for they cannot face being wrong. However, us, those that know them best, a MLCer know that we know them. At times that mask slips around us. It takes enormous energies to run and they do tire.

Realize a MLCer is confused. They do see their life and history; as much as they attempt to believe otherwise. They do see their choices; regardless how driven their were to making them. There is an incredible amount of pressure inside them. With time and space, perhaps they awaken to the truth of their reality.

And therein lay the crux of your inquiry. What is the person experiencing inside? All we have is their outer self, which unfortunately is mostly a facade.

H saying he has a problem is a good sign. It is one data point among many. Do not read too much into it. Remember, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.

Is H seeking help? Looking for a IC? Aside from his words, what actions is he implementing?

Running has times of fast and hard running, and times of regret and sorrow, and times of even a more normal behaviour. All are within the running phase of a crisis. Until the crisis individual grows and faces their pain, they will remain.

Consistent, demonstrated, positive behaviour. Not words. That is a good indicator of an awaken. H’s current behaviour shows traits of empathy and caring. And I do understand how confusing that appears to you. How does someone do this? How can someone be like this? They are very confused.

Everything is about the MLCer. H’s actions are due to his driven emotional state or because of how his actions are making him feel. Everything. Is.

That is not some shot at H, it is a compassionate view. H is a sad lost soul and must traverse his path, for any hope of finding his way through his darkness.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
His next visit is just before the children's exams and he asked if it might not be better to postpone it for a few weeks because his visit could have too much of an impact on their preparation (which is very much the case), crazy to hear now he finally realizes he has a huge impact on their emotions because of his behavior. Also financially very helpful, do what is good for you, I have so much on my mind at the moment, so much to deal with, I know you will handle everything with respect.

Not visiting because of the impact from his actions, is avoidance. H is running. I do not think H believes or realizes the impact his behaviour has upon the kids. He isn’t visiting because he doesn’t feel like it. Follow his actions not his words. Did he change his behaviour? If it is affecting the kids so much wouldn’t he change?

Leaving you to deal with the finances is him avoiding responsibility. Yes, he will follow whatever deal is made, and wants to remain an arms length away from it. To isolate himself from the actualities of what he has done.

Guilt is funny stuff and gets expressed is all sorts of ways. H is currently very helpful and most likely feeling very guilty. Not unexpected after a visit at the old home with family, friends, and the happiness of his old life pressing upon him.

Your forwarding the divorce proceedings - now is a good time. H is helpful, and that comes and goes, and usually doesn’t last too long.

You are doing very well and asking good questions. This is a bizarre situation to explore and I hope I shed some light for you.

D


Now: Me53 XW49 S24 S22 S20 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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