Me: 50 W: 47 S 16, D 13 M 28 years (1992) Jan 2018 - BD June 2019 - She moved out May 2020 - Told me she will initiate D
My viewpoint: Met at university, got married about a year after finishing. We had a long time finding work, ended up deciding that whoever got a job first, the other person would move to where they are. I eventually secured a job six weeks out from our wedding. Went into a hugely busy job with long hours and many deadlines. Friends in same industry in similar situations. Felt trapped - family responsibilities, job expectations, difficulty in obtaining the role in the first place. Parents owned their own businesses; long hours etc part of my 'normal' life experience. Worked hard to support family, pay off mortgage and establish financial security. Mentally and physically fatigued a lot of the time. Downtime and time for self limited, neglected church and health. W seemed disinclined to do things together so relaxation activities were reading, watching TV, playing on the computer - but all done where I could be in the same room as W. Did the best I knew at the time but ignorant of love languages, held a 50/50 mindset and lacked a servant heart for my W. No discussions initiated by either about what we wanted out of life, how MR should look, where we wanted to live, etc. W very supportive always. Kisses, I love yous, etc every day to each other until "I want a divorce" BD. Did not see it coming, especially as W a faithful Christian all her life. I never thought either of us would consider it an option.
W viewpoint: Workaholic H largely absent, making her feel like she was not the priority. Boring home life, few holidays etc. Felt she was only wanted as a housekeeper. Family live far away in another state. Deep desire to see them thwarted by lack of money in early years. I don't love you --> I haven't loved you for years --> I never loved you --> I didn't even love you when we got married.
Last Thursday W asked me if I was attending the meeting on Saturday with our Pastor. I didn't know anything about a meeting, and said so. W then became apprehensive that they wanted to kick her butt. She said she was 'resigned' to losing her place in the music ministry over her decision to D me. W said that if they were going to kick her out of the church, I should be kicked out too. I told W I'm sure no one is being kicked out.
Out of nowhere W brought up the book of Malachi (the one in which God says "I hate divorce") and explained it was just a historical record of the time some Jewish men took foreign wives, etc. She then told me that Bible had been translated by men and a lot of scripture had been changed by the patriarchy in order to oppress women. I told her that if God is real then we have to trust Him to safeguard the accuracy of His word. What I didn't say was that it concerns me that W, who has always been a faithful believer, is now using arguments to discount scripture and place it as merely the (possibly inaccurate) testimony of men rather than the living Word. As someone else said to me, rather than alter her decision to line up with the Word, W has made an emotional decision and is looking for justification.
We actually had a laugh and a bit of a cry during our conversation and there was even a tiny bit of flirtiness/innuendo. During the talk W mentioned two things -
She thought it was 'strange' that I wanted to make love 'a lot' on our honeymoon, but never said anything about it at the time (or indeed, for the next 27 years).
She had felt suicidal at some point in the past few years and she was sure God wouldn't want her to be in a situation that made her feel that way. (I'm not sure when this happened, or for how long. I don't know if it was a passing thought or an intense period. Surely I would have noticed if it was a long period? It certainly would have been a wake-up call.) I found out W has also mentioned the suicidal thoughts moment/period to D13. I think W is laying groundwork for telling the kids she is going to D me.
That afternoon I saw W when she picked up the kids from home. She had texted the Pastor 'to confirm Joe is coming to the meeting'. He'd sent a long reply saying it was just a meeting with her. W gave me a glance at her phone to show how long the text message was. (I don't know what it said.) W said it was like getting a text from her father (W's dad told her we need to work on the marriage; W won't contact him any more). W said she felt she was going to get "thrown under a bus" at the meeting. W said "it's a bit weird talking to you about this stuff", which seemed positive. I did my best to listen and validate.
W said that she hasn't told the pastor everything as she doesn't want him to think she's a 'total cow'. W said she didn't love me when we got married but thought she would learn to, but never did. I encouraged her to speak openly to the pastor otherwise any advice he gives will be misguided. I asked W if she'd seen a counsellor (something she said she was going to do when she moved out). W said no.
W said the kids are unhappy with her for separating. She said she doesn't diss me to them so they put all the blame on her as they don't know all the terrible things I've done. (I get the feeling W has more things in her head that I've done that I don't know about. I remember W coming home one time in tears. I tried to comfort her and find out what was wrong. "I told DC about you, and now she's never going to speak to you again!" she said. I had no idea what I'd done and W would never tell me what she'd said to her friend. DC and her husband were great friends of ours and contact seemed to fizzle out after that. I did have a feeling that other people knew more than me about what was going on in our M.)
On Friday, the day following our conversation, W and I had to talk about S15's upcoming birthday. W let me know she'd talked to her mother about the meeting with the pastor and his message. (No surprise there.) W had joked to her mum that maybe she should bring me as a support person, and her mum had said "Why not?" W said she was unhappy with the pastor and his wife because they want us to work on reconciliation. W asked how she was meant to overlook the past. "Just pretend it didn't happen?"
We did the weekly handover of the kids on Saturday instead of Sunday as the kids had some activities going on. As a result W had a roast she planned for their Saturday dinner going spare and invited us all back for lunch on Sunday. W didn't talk to me much and sat with D13 between us.
A very good (Christian) friend of W's contacted me to say that she had been talking things over with W. She has a big heart for W and is concerned for her. W apparently commented that she couldn't back down on D because her mother knows what she's decided. I haven't asked friend to tell me any more (and I'm sure she wouldn't). I think she is concerned about the influence W's mum has on her decision-making.
One of W's family (not her dad) told me I was "the best thing that ever happened to her". They won't tell W though.
I have only read bits of your sitch so I just wanted to stop by and offer my support. It gives me the feeling many things are going on in your W's head and that is a place where you probably do not want to get dragged into.
I just wanted to make a quick comment to you. I have been a workaholic and neglected my W during a much shorter M of 5 years but a big mistake I did was I also abandoned my beliefs. I think this is a really good time to review the core values we christians have and use them as fuel for our motivation, patience, to forgive yourself and to grow.
Just wanted to add this comment. I am sure you are a much more mature man than I am and you are doing a great job at DBing. Keep up your attitude and peace and I send you hugs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
Perhaps I excuse myself too much but the overworking situation was something I got caught in, then couldn't escape. I won't go into details since my posts are long enough anyway, but it was like I was trapped in quicksand - something I couldn't get out of by myself, but only with help from outside it. A few people said the "no one lies on their deathbed wishing they'd spent more time in the office" thing to me, but that wasn't practical help. It was like someone picnicking beside the quicksand saying "When are you getting out so you can join us for sandwiches?"
Wandering away from my faith went hand in hand with this. It wasn't that I believed any less, but I had so much less time on the weekend, and was constantly fatigued (particularly mentally), that sleeping in on a Sunday seemed a better idea than going to church. I encouraged W to go but she didn't want to go without me, so it had a detrimental effect on her too.
My W went interstate to visit her mother in January 2018. While she was away, the Lord said to me it was the eleventh hour, but that He was going to change things. Immediately my work situation changed and I was able to go home at a normal time. No more weekend work, no more long hours, after years and years of it. A week later my W returned and told me she wanted a D.
Since then, and up until WFH/covid 19 lockdown, I made it home by just after 6pm every day (with only one exception in the last 2.5 years I think, which I cleared in advance with W).
For a long time I have been thinking about making a post here about my perspectives and challenges on D and DB as a Christian, but I've been cautious knowing that this is not particularly a religious website and also knowing that even Christians have different interpretations about these things.
Perhaps I excuse myself too much but the overworking situation was something I got caught in, then couldn't escape. I won't go into details since my posts are long enough anyway, but it was like I was trapped in quicksand - something I couldn't get out of by myself, but only with help from outside it. A few people said the "no one lies on their deathbed wishing they'd spent more time in the office" thing to me, but that wasn't practical help. It was like someone picnicking beside the quicksand saying "When are you getting out so you can join us for sandwiches?"
Boy can I relate to this! Always thinking when I have THE better job, when I get THE great position, when I get out of rental I will have so much more time to enjoy my M and family . I was also told by some colleagues the only thing that matters at the end of the day was her and children. My ears where full or creap.
Originally Posted by JoeDredd
My W went interstate to visit her mother in January 2018. While she was away, the Lord said to me it was the eleventh hour, but that He was going to change things. Immediately my work situation changed and I was able to go home at a normal time. No more weekend work, no more long hours, after years and years of it. A week later my W returned and told me she wanted a D.
In my case it was short after I found that job, that great company that all of a sudden gave me the freedom to really balance job with family quality time. Before that I had a 1 hour commute which damaged a lot the status of things. Anyways, I think this a great lesson, there will never be better times. You need to make the better times HAPPEN. I am very sorry you had to live through this Joe, I do not know your W or your current situation but I want to encourage you to keep hope.
Originally Posted by JoeDredd
For a long time I have been thinking about making a post here about my perspectives and challenges on D and DB as a Christian, but I've been cautious knowing that this is not particularly a religious website and also knowing that even Christians have different interpretations about these things.
My vows are alive in my heart. This is not me living a fairy tale belief, it is what my heart is pushing me to do. I have made the mistake of mentioning to W (ouch me!) only to hear that "oh yeah! now you are a devote Christian" or "You ignored your vows for 5 years, do not judge me as if you had better values, my family values are WAY better than yours". I guess is something we need to carry internally. When I think about the PIES, in the spiritual sense I have determined to be more optimistic and cheerful and to develop a better R with God. I encourage you Joe to make a list of the things you want to improve spiritually. I review mine daily.
Hugs! Pack
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
Thanks Pack. I had a look at your sitch and there is a lot that I can relate to. I'm so glad S6 is having such a great time with you. That is definitely one of those things that you are doing that is just for him and you. Keep at it!
Originally Posted by Pack_19
My vows are alive in my heart. This is not me living a fairy tale belief, it is what my heart is pushing me to do. I have made the mistake of mentioning to W (ouch me!) only to hear that "oh yeah! now you are a devote Christian" or "You ignored your vows for 5 years, do not judge me as if you had better values, my family values are WAY better than yours". I guess is something we need to carry internally.
My W said the same, something like "sure you believe in the importance of M now; where was that in the past?" I told her it was always there, but my understanding has grown more now. I knew M was important, but know it even more now. I knew it was important to God, but understand why even more now. Etc. Although God can look at the inside, people get an impression looking at the outside. Ditto changes - God works from the inside out (heart, mind, attitudes), and the fruit of that is not always immediately visible.
My W said the same, something like "sure you believe in the importance of M now; where was that in the past?" I told her it was always there, but my understanding has grown more now. I knew M was important, but know it even more now. I knew it was important to God, but understand why even more now. Etc. Although God can look at the inside, people get an impression looking at the outside. Ditto changes - God works from the inside out (heart, mind, attitudes), and the fruit of that is not always immediately visible.
And what can you answer? If you say "yes my priorities where all over the place, I know I hurt you but I always loved you", then you already "killed the M" as W told me. If you say "That is not true, I might have failed but my M was always there and I held onto my vows", then you are an insensitive animal who cannot understand how you failed and hurt her.
The topic is just a massive dynamite bomb that can only explode in your hands, shame I did not listen to Sandi and I had to live through the explosion. How can you be a committed partner when the other is halfway out the door? does that make you unreasonable? Can one shelter a M and family through this? When I joined the forum I was convinced it was possible. Not that I have done a good job DBing (I am getting there), but I am not sure one person can change any dynamics when the other person has dressed you up in black and made you the worst enemy. Let's release the pressure, focus on ourselves and hope for the best.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
