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A Message from Michele
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Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Steve85] #2902179
08/17/20 01:58 AM
08/17/20 01:58 AM
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Hoch Offline OP
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Thanks Steve.

Unfortunately itís more complicated than that. Due to cost of living, if we were to remain here we would have to get a studio or 1 bedroom apartment to survive. We have two small kids, age 2 and 5, and the 5YO is hyper and special needs. They break or damage everything, and keeping them inside such a small space is a recipe for disaster.

Moving back, we have a chance to survive financially - itís not really feasible to stay. Iím just very unhappy about it. The opposite course of action would be for me to say no, Iím staying here - and have her move back home with the kids. And to lose my children on top of my marriage... I canít begin to tell you how unprepared I am for that.

Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2902181
08/17/20 02:47 AM
08/17/20 02:47 AM
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Steve85 Offline
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If you have no choice then you have no choice. That wasn't the way you framed it. Or I missed that part.


M(51), W(52),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Steve85] #2902214
08/17/20 09:45 PM
08/17/20 09:45 PM
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Hoch Offline OP
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That could be on me, I may have framed it poorly.

Largely the situation is, we cannot afford to stay where we are. However, with the remote opportunity at my work, we could conceivably go anywhere cheaper. My wife chose to go back home.

So itís not like staying is an option. But going back to our hometown isnít required either. Iím just salty about losing my current location, and sad about going home. But not necessarily thinking there could be an alternative, other than if my wife had helped with the finances the last 5 years we would have far more options (and conceivably could have stayed).

I know itís not fair, Iím just not sure how to process this.

Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2902215
08/17/20 09:47 PM
08/17/20 09:47 PM
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Hoch Offline OP
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I think the thing that prompted my frustration was her commenting to me ďI finally get to go home, and I feel like Iím dragging you. Itís making me resentful.Ē

And Iím just thinking, youíre resentful? Iíve been trying to achieve this dream for 16 years, I finally get it, and now I have to tuck tail and head home. Iím resentful.

None of which is productive.

Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2902369
08/19/20 06:26 PM
08/19/20 06:26 PM
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sandi2 Offline
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Obviously, you and W have conflicting views about returning to home town. You see it as a sign of defeat. Do you know or have you asked how she sees moving home is the best option? My first guess would be that she feels she'll get more support with the kids. Is that a strong possibility, or do you think she's just homesick?

Resentment has been building in both of you, for some time. It would be extremely difficult to find someone, individuals or regular run-of-the-mill day cares, to keep your oldest child. I doubt you would want someone keeping him, who was not educated on children with extrasensory perception. I'll try not to repeat what I've previously said, but I will stress again that finding the right educational/support facilities for S5, need to take priority.........else, you won't have a marriage and family. It's in crisis now. Neither you or your W will endure the stress that stems from this issue with your child, if you don't take action to find the help for him. Something is going to break under the pressure. IMHO, the place to choose to live, would be one that has access to the best doctors and educational environment that will benefit S5, as well as teach/support the parents. If that happens to describe your hometown, then swallow your pride and do what's best for him. I would make a call to the local school district and speak directly to the Special Education Supervisor. I would ask if there are any students currently enrolled who have this diagnosis, and more importantly, if the district has in place a Sp. Ed. teacher who is not only trained, but experienced, with children with extrasensory perception.

In the public school system in the USA, students who require physical, emotional, or mental assistance (even if they are in mainstream classes) are eligible for a lot more than most first time parents realize (if they have not done their research). Public schools are required to provide what that individual student needs, within that educational environment. For example, if a student was in a wheelchair, the campus must have ramps to all the buildings the student will use, accessible water fountains, elevators to classes on second floor,......all for that one child. Private schools who are not state funded, aren't required to follow the state's educational standards of the public schools, but neither are they required to enroll your student. Disclaimer: I have limited knowledge on this topic, and our world is changing, so I could be wrong. Take it FWIW.

((hugs))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2904047
09/17/20 02:54 PM
09/17/20 02:54 PM
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Hoch Offline OP
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Hello folks -

An update. Iím currently having a rough time, and wanted to reconnect with people here and get some guidance.

We have been through... a lot in the past weeks. We were initially planning on moving to our hometown this week, but due to the fires on the west coast, we made the rather panicked decision to move 3 weeks early and get everyone out of the path of the devastation. We probably could have stayed, but a combo of 90+ degree heat waves, smoke so bad we couldnít open doors, and our young kids going crazy with the trickle-down stress... it was not good. So we got out.

The move was, predictably, a disaster. Wife and kids left a day early, I stayed behind to supervise the move and drive the truck. The movers were slow, stoned, and only packed half the house before they left. I was left to deal with the rest myself, and had several panic attacks in that time. But we finally made it, and all our stuff is finally in our new place.

Unfortunately, since Iím working remotely, my deadlines didnít shift and Iíve been immediately faced with some crushing scheduling trying to catch up while working in our new space.

As to the family, my kids seem much calmer. All of this stuff went down about 3 weeks ago, and everything seems to have settled a bit. All except for my wife, who has only ratcheted up her tension.

My kids and I seem to be adapting well. Relaxed, watching shows, unpacking boxes. Initially, things were good - my wife and I actually watched a movie together - for the first time in maybe 3 months. But as mentioned, my wife is wound tighter than a drum most of the time.

She is snapping at everyone, mostly myself, but also the kids. ďI thought I told you to put on your shoes, for the love of god!Ē ďDammit, why do you spill your drink every time??Ē Last night she snapped at me because I was brushing my 2yoís teeth ďwrong.Ē Then she snapped at our 5yo repeatedly because he kept moving on the bed and was waking up our 2yo. It was only 9:30pm.

Iím staying calm, distancing, and keeping the kids happy and making sure they stay safe. Unfortunately, I also have to work 10-12 hrs a day to keep my job, at least for the moment until I get caught up, and I hear her yelling at them downstairs.

We are back to the same problem, the only thing that makes her happy is taking breaks, without warning, 5-8 times per day. She says ďI want to take a breakĒ and just leaves, making me watch the kids when I need to be working to catch up on my deadline. I have told her that if we could schedule her breaks, which I am in support of, it wouldnít disrupt my work as much. But I have clearly stated that it takes me 30 min to get warmed up into a task. If she leaves for 20 min (her average break time), and it takes me another 30 min to get back into a task, each of her 20 min breaks costs me an hour and 20 minutes from my schedule. And on top of that, she is taking up all of the ďbreakĒ time in my schedule - which means I never stop. I work, then I watch he kids while theyíre sad and angry that mommy left again, then I go back to work, all day every day, without stopping. Iím tired.

She did not used to be like this. For 10 years, she was the nicest, most caring, wouldnít-hurt-a-fly woman. I miss and feel sorry for her. But since kids, sheís just... snapped. All of her recent behavior toward me has hallmarks of emotional abuse. I know I need to detach, distance, and leave her be, but my question is what do I do about the kids? I have to work, but I feel I also need to somehow step in and protect them from the worst of her barrages.

Iím still committed, but more lost and confused than ever.

Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2904071
09/17/20 07:58 PM
09/17/20 07:58 PM
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Steve85 Offline
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Hoch, sorry man. These sitches are bears. Throw in a move especially of this distance, and it is like throwing TNT on a gas fire.

But what I see is you struggling with who your W is today. You even end the post making a point about how awesome she used to be. And then I see you trying to get her to schedule her breaks.

Let me ask you, if you were stressed out, needing a break, and someone started to tell you "please schedule this break?" How would handle that? Can you see how that would increase your stress? "I need a break and you are telling me that I need to call a concierge to schedule that?"

Is there some other way to handle this? I forget the ages of your children, but can the older child be called upon to watch the younger children? Can you try to find child care for a 2-3 days a week so that your W doesn't feel overwhelmed even temporarily? I am going to challenge you to think outside the box. I know my W was at various times dealing with a lot of stress, and my telling her how to handle it never went over well. However, when I took action to help her then she appreciated it. Maybe her breaks would become less frequent if she wasn't doing the child care every day 8-6 or whatever your normal work day is. You are back in your hometown, do you have any support there that could help with this?


M(51), W(52),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2904137
09/18/20 06:20 PM
09/18/20 06:20 PM
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Hoch Offline OP
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Steve85 -

I appreciate your take. Iíve been trying to think outside the box for a long time, maybe I need to work harder.

We are in my hometown with family all around, but my wife still refuses to let any of them come into contact with the kids because of Covid. She is adamant that we isolate, no matter the costs. That goes for childcare as well. This has been part of our struggle the past 5 years - I noticed early on that our son was too much to handle; she was drowning, but avoiding all help. I started discussing her getting a job and putting him in daycare, at least a few days a week. That would have been the only way we could afford it unfortunately, she needed to be working.

Her response was ďI wonít let anyone else raise our kids.Ē Thatís been her mantra for years, and as much as I love her itís just started to sound crazier and crazier. Itís not like a firm affirmation that is open to discussion about pros and cons, itís an almost zealot-like position. She is still breastfeeding our near 3yo, still co-sleeping w our near 6yo. Iíve tried to rationalize it but it really feels like she is clinging to motherhood and wonít let go on fear of death, even though getting outside help, an outside job, daycare or even separate bedrooms for the kids would likely go a long way to making things easier. Iím a rational person but Iím kinda at my wits end, and Iíve been straining to see both sides of the argument for years.

Thatís our current position - she wonít allow outside help because of Covid, and we couldnít afford it if she did. Stuck is how it feels most of the time.

However, something interesting happened yesterday. Out of the blue, after being angry at everyone for three days, she texted me that she ďneeds to get a new therapist, she needs to talk about a lot of things.Ē Now to me, with a wife that rarely opens up at all, I must admit this immediately read as a bad omen. As in, ďI need someone to help me confirm some hard decisions.Ē Iím a little jumpy, as she has threatened divorce 4 times in 3 years, and tends to be impulsive.

However, when I talked to her later, just being a good listener, she admitted to me that she thinks she ďis insane.Ē She says she feels the last 5 years have driven her literally crazy, she gets angry at everything and everyone and has no idea how to control her anger or thoughts. She also said that while being a stay at home mom may be for some people, it is not right for her, she is realizing. She also said she wants a more well-rounded therapist who challenges her, because she says sheís ďseriously f*ed upĒ and her issues will likely take years to address. I was definitely shocked.

Now for me, this is the best news I could hear. This is all stuff Iíve known for a LONG time, and itís been so incredibly hard watching her degrade while refusing to acknowledge there was a problem, or accept outside help. Itís like watching an alcoholic drink themselves to death, and Iíve just felt so helpless. Hearing her acknowledge the problem is a big thing. It doesnít mean anything is guaranteed, but the DR book says to look for positive small movements, and this definitely qualifies.

And thirdly, since nothing is ever simple, Iíd like to share something else that is troubling me and I know you kind people can help with. I have a friend who was in a similar situation - we would commiserate about how we felt completely untouched and unloved by our wives, and buoy each other up to keep fighting for our marriages. He just started messaging me today that not only is his marriage over, but heís found a new relationship with a woman who ďwants to touch and be around him.Ē Iím happy for him, but for me this is so hard to hear. I had to tune him out, and immediately re-read the DR section on ďthe divorce trap,Ē trying to take solace in the sections about not being chummy with people who are getting divorced and singing itís praises. For me, my wife has not wanted to touch or be around me for years, and itís been so very lonely and hopeless. But Iím fighting for my marriage, for my kids, and for our future, knowing that she has been out of sorts for awhile and hoping the loving feelings will come back one day.

How do people here deal with friends who have thrown in the towel and are living it up with new partners? Itís so hard to hear and Iím not sure what to do with those feelings. But I WANT to keep fighting.

Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2904395
09/24/20 02:33 AM
09/24/20 02:33 AM
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Hi Hoch,

Iím so sorry you find yourself here. In full disclosure, I havenít read anything in the newcomers section in a couple of years because well....itís always sad. And I think it brings many of us back to a certain painful place. Fortunately, things will get better and you could not ask for a more supportive group.

It sounds like things have been incredibly stressful with the move, work, kids (my oldest is autistic), and life in general. Youíve received some very good advice and I know that some things feel counterintuitive. To me, resentment is a killer of relationships of any kind. Itís great you are both in IC and everyone is correct-once you stop asking why, life gets so much more enjoyable.

It sounds like your wife has been dealing with depression for some time. My best advice to you is to take her as she is now and donít expect her to revert back. As a matter of fact, expect nothing. Iím almost 7 years out, and it is much easier with time to look at the good times as good times and realize there will be many more wonderful times in your life.

Setting boundaries can be difficult and they are necessary. Release your ďexpectationsĒ. Wake up each day and tell yourself ďSelf, today is a present. I canít change the past and I only control what I control. So Iím going to enjoy today and live it like itís my last.Ē Whatís important to you? What do you want? Yeah, we know you are worried about what your wife is going to do and you have zero control of that. So everything will have to play out but use this time wisely. You never get it back.

In regards to your friend, no judgements from me. Is your friend right for finding someone who has qualities he wants? Who physically desires him? Absolutely not. And you my friend are not wrong for wanting to keep your family intact. I have friends who do lots of things I may not do. One thing that makes my day is when peeps say Iím the least judgemental person they know. Not my deck of cards. I could prattle off a long list of things Iíve realized over the last almost 7 years but Iíll skip that. However, when you truly finally accept that this is an opportunity to become the best you and your wife will do what she does, it will be a true awakening. And you may feel a bit apprehensive with your confidence, however you have a chance to evolve.

Hang in there. It will get better.


Me-42 xh-41
3 kids
BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. )
Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style
D final 9-9-14
"Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Re: Confused but committed, Part 1 [Re: Hoch] #2904431
09/24/20 04:14 PM
09/24/20 04:14 PM
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Hoch Offline OP
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Georgiabelle -

Thank you so much for your kind words. Iíve actually been coming into my own in the last few days. Iíve been reading up a lot on distancer/pursuer, and focusing much more on caring for myself and what I want and donít want. It has been a bit of an awakening.

Iíve also found myself vacillating wildly - as the reading says I would - between wanting her back and wishing sheíd just go. This is the first time Iíve felt the tug of ďletting her go,Ē really. The entire relationship has until now been me wishing sheíd stay and being willing to do anything to keep her. So this minor shift is a sea change I suppose. But Iím doing it with a kind smile and a happy attitude, which is different.

I did notice within a day of me being ďotherwise occupiedĒ but in a great mood, she started fawning over me. I spent a bunch of time in my new hammock - which I wanted to do because itís enjoyable - and she went out of her way to bring me like 5 different kinds of food I hadnít asked for. That was strange and new, after 3 years of neglect. Each time, I received it with a ďwow, thanks!Ē but didnít make any overtures towards wanting to get up or engage. I ate and enjoyed.

I did notice resentment creeping in int he days since, and my detachment became a little sulkier. Iím finding it so difficult to be ďdetached but happy,Ē I find myself feeling each snub or unkind word. Which leads to more unkind words from her, reacting to my detachment. Iím really working on that, on the resentment.

One thing with my newfound detachment and boundaries - she comes downstairs and says a happy good morning to our kids, ignores me, and then wants to engage me in chipper conversation about the day. Is it fruitful to mention offhandedly and calmly that i find it unkind not to say good morning? On one hand, it feels like the boundary I would set with a houseguest and something I should get better at declaring. ďHey, itís unkind to completely ignore me.Ē But on the other hand, it seems like to goes against the letter of the law with detaching. Set external boundaries for growth? Or set internal boundaries by not letting it bother me?

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