Look, if your W were a guy and I were you, I'd be about ready to crack him in the mouth at this point but that is only going to make things worse. You have to realize that she is pushing your buttons and looking for a reaction. Don't give it to her. Ignore it and make your way out of the room or to a different activity.
I was in limbo for over a year, and even then, it takes a lot of time to settle in again. Either way, divorce or marriage, you're going to have to get used to a new normal.
Thanks for the link Ovr. I spent a good couple hours out a whole bunch of her vids. Never thought to look her up on youtube. The thing with how W acts, namely disrespectfully, isnt ignoring it a bad thing? No one has ever treated me as poorly as her and if it were anyone else they'd be out of my life for good.
Originally Posted by LH19
Here’s the problem you are not detached so in essence you’re not ready to file. If you were detached limbo would be a piece of cake for you. It’s easy for your W because she doesn’t want to save the marriage. I suspect you think filing will either wake her up or make you feel better. I will do neither. I was in limbo a lot longer then you and when times got tough I would think about my children and get up and prepare for another round.
I have been listening to a lot of Peter Crones podcasts and one of his famous quotes is “Life will present you with people and situations to show you where you are not free”. The point is all of life is uncertain and you better get fuching used to it. You have to learn to be ok that you don’t know the outcome and you’re ok with it. Trust the universe.
So my suggestion to you is to work on being detached so then you can make a decision that is based on logic and not emotion (fear)
Life is $hitty sometimes and it will punch you in the face like a MFer. The goal is to keep getting up to go another round. If you need a reason just think about your young children.
A day at a time with detachment, it goes well until she acts disrespectfully, completely illogically or neglects things that affect us both like not paying bills. The young children is whats making this so hard. My decision to D is in the forefront of my mind most of the time, when I feel logical and detached and more so when emotions are running. I havent had the thought of trying to make it work in awhile.
Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by Core
What do I do to build respect? U is right that there is still none. Even if we D, we need respect. Ive kicked her out of the mbr, told her she can leave or file any time she desires, put boundaries down. Im enforcing my last boundary and am only communicating kid logistics since the eyeroll.
You cannot INSIST on respect. You can learn techniques to command respect. But ultimately, she may not ever respect you. You can only control your part of the equation. Eyerolls I would shrug off.
Originally Posted by Core
Im defeated, exhausted, hopeless and lack the will to stay in this marriage. I'm ashamed that we are here. I pictured signing the divorce papers and got so happy yesterday. This was all preventable with a little communication and self improvements. I'd rather live alone and miss half the kids childhoods than live with this version of W. If I file, I'll never know if its the right or wrong choice. All the other sitches similar to mine that ended in a happy reconcile seemed to resolve quicker than mine.
Core, you often sound really stirred up with anxiety in your posts. As an anxiety sufferer myself, it took a long time (and is still a WIP) for me to build calm confidence in my decisions, rather than dive into the mentally exhausting cycle of anxiety. Often anxiety had me thinking "Either I do A, or I do B". This is a fallacy.
Whether or not you end up filing for D, it's not going to make you happy or not. Other factors will.
Happiness being internal is on point. I've been working on that and am way better than 8 months ago thankfully. On the anxiety end...its feeling less like anxiety and more like injustice. Right and wrong. When I'm treated with disrespect, its anger, honor and ego kicking in. Especially when the kids are present. If W eye rolls, D4 is watching and my actions set the tone of what someone should do when this occurs. I dont want either kid to learn to sit around and take it.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Wayfarer and Hope, thanks for stopping by. My thoughts on ego and control, and please bear with me as I think I'm not connecting fully with what you're telling me. My W and I are an example for my kids. They are learning from her that treating an H, or being treated by a woman the way my W treats me is ok. If I dont respond, the kids and W see their Dad as a doormat, and may think allowing blatant disrespect is ok. They may also think its ok to do the same to me. D4 has at times then is scolded and cries...confused because mommy did it too. I also believe most people in general are disgusted and unattracted if a man is weak and lets his W walk over him. I know youre not saying to allow my W to walk over me. Im trying to understand where the line is. Im hearing your point but not fully understanding.
My W would flip a lid if D4 rolled her eyes at her. W gets upset if D4 doesnt use full sentences when speaking with her. So I know respect is of big importance to my W and her acting like a teen to me is purposeful to make a point that she fails to do rationally with words. I get W doesn't like me right now. I feel the same with her so I know how she feels. The difference is I dont attack her or put her down. Thats not right to do to your kids' parent especially when kids are around. When W does or says something I don't like, i dont understand the comments on keeping the peace. To me that sounds like being a push over and giving up my boundaries and self respect. She might not like when I challenge her actions but wont she respect that I wont tolerate her being intolerable? What am I missing? Being looked down upon and treated like a brother or W's father doesnt feel like peace to me as the LBH.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Look, I can respect that every one has a different line in the sand for what they consider disrespect. Maybe my threshold is just higher because honestly I've been called the c word by my daughter's father on more than one occasion. Which for informational purposes you should know it accomplished absolutely nothing because he doesn't have that kind of power over me. I couldn't care less what he says to me. And if it were possible to care even less than that, that's how much I care about him respecting me. Contrary to popular belief the objective concept of respect isn't owed to any one. My purpose of posting what I did is that I think you need to consider that you can't stand her right now and therefor her every motion has your hackles raised. That there is a possibility that you are blowing things a bit out of proportion because your emotions are riding high. Because honestly if you can't stand her, Every breath she takes is going to be offensive. And if that's the case, fine. So be it. You don't have to love her. Or try to make this work. Or stay in this marriage. Or be her friend. But you will be living with this woman as part of your life for a very, very, very long time and if you can't start managing your own emotions and behaviors through detachment you have a very, very, long, bumpy road ahead of you.
Do you think most of us co-parenting with our exes are 100% respectful to each other 100% of the time? We're not. And no matter how hard we try to stay above board we aren't always pleasant or kind in front of our kids either. People in healthy happy marriages are 100% respectful to each to each other 100% of the time. What I can tell you though is what those of us co-parenting don't do. We don't give a hoot about what the exes say or do when they interact with us if it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual care and keeping of our children. My ex called me a b*tch at Christmas this past Christmas and I wasn't even there. We haven't been together in 8 years. Let me tell you how much I care. I laughed when D17 told me what happened. D17 put his butt into place, loved on her grandparents and then left. I didn't need to be there. I didn't need to command his respect. I had no need to show him how much self respect I have or lay boundaries for a person who doesn't care about anybody's boundaries but their own. I have our daughter's respect. I've given her the tools for self respect and boundaries with her father. I don't have a thing to prove to my ex. You want to be a good example to your kids. Show them what rising above looks like. Correcting their mother like a 3rd child isn't rising above. Like at all. All it's doing is feeding into a parent child marital relationship. Not giving a d@mn about what she says and does or thinks or feels about you. That's rising above.
So I'll go back to my previous statement. You want to feed your ego or do you want peace? Or as I've also heard it phrased do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? You want calm. You want quiet. You want your life to be less complicated. Less full of stress, and pain. You have to do that. She will try to get under your skin for the rest of your lives. And the only thing you can control in those situations are your actions and reactions. We all have choices to make in that space. I'm trying to offer you the alternative perspective and alternative approach of not every single action and reaction of others needs a response.
What wayfarer posted to you, is pure gold. You are so emotionally wrapped up in pride and gaining your W's respect, that you are having trouble getting yourselves grounded. If you are unable to detach, you will continue to spin.
Have you taken inventory of what has worked for you and what has not worked? Have you made any changes to your approach? What about short-term/long-term goals?
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
I see what you mean Wayfarer. Can I deal with with it going forward... I'm not sure. If she's my Ex and not in my face daily, sure. The fact now is, with how she acts and her lack of a job, no intimacy, she basically is acting like a child that I have to provide for. Who mooches off my labor. After several weeks stuck at home now and me doing stay at home dad stuff for a few weeks previously...she has it so easy watching the kids, watching TV, doing her hobbies, while I grind away at a job thats probably gone in three weeks.
I dont know if this counts as an in home separation or what. If it is, articles on the net and what Sandi says scares me, that theyve yet to see a successful in home separation. Is that what I'm doing now, or does that mean official separation where you date others? Should I get file the separation or D?
What doesnt work is living under the same roof. The only thing that worked thus far is when I told her we will separate our time with the kids. I got great advice her and it flipped her switch. Thats when she dropped OM and came back to the marriage for two days. OM is still gone but we are not bonding. We avoid each other, interactions are mostly neutral. Would a separation help here? A real separation would force her to get a job, a house and impact my kids, sending them to daycare. Other than that, I think confronting the affair, and kicking W out of the bedroom helped.
No other actions seemed to have an affect either way. I'm out of cards, I think all thats left is to truly walk away with a separation or D. If in home separation never work and what I'm doing counts as one, then I just wasted 9 months.
Am I doing the right thing? Currently we interact many times in the day, we eat dinner as a family and occasionally do a family movie night. If I'm playing with the kids in one room, she sometimes will come and sit next to me which is uncomfortable. We plan out grocery shopping together and anything for the kids. I help bring groceries in. She folds my laundry. GAL slowed down with quarantine and I missed my kids. The stuff I just stated, I probably need to stop, right? But then Im just a slug, hiding in a room away from the kids. I hate this. It disgusts me that we are still in this situation.
Im continuing to read and exercise, picked up a new game. I think I'm doing most of this right, except I should've forced the separation when W asked for space.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Literally that entire thing was about her changing. And not a single thing about you changing. And you sound like beyond bitter. Your kids are tiny. That's a full time job whether you help or not. If you're not helping it's 2 full time jobs. The fact that you are disgusted about spending money on her is really sad. She maybe a crappy wife, and a bad person but she's the mother of your children. And she seems to love them very much. Even if she doesn't always parent and co-parent the way you'd like. And with that in mind if this amount of money is disturbing to you, divorce is going to be a rude awakening for you my friend. Not everybody has to be me, but, my god man. You're expectations are off the wall. I get it your in a tight space. And this covid mess has every body running on 11 emotionally. Especially people with anxiety. But if you're in the US the curve doesn't look like it will flatten until the end of the month. Where I live you basically can't get a court date unless it's a criminal matter, most jurisdictional time lines are being waived. How do you think she'd move right now? How would that even be possible? Much less getting a job? Half this county is out of work right now. You have absolutely no choice but to work with what you have. And get a hold of yourself. It is not her job to reciprocate feelings for you. It's not her job to work on your time line. It's not her job feed your ego or work on the MR while you sit back and wait for her to change. H3ll, it's not her job to change. She can only do what she is emotionally capable of and what she feels is right for her. And that might not agree with what you think is right for you and/or the family. And because of that this might not be a marriage worth saving for you. But right now that's entirely besides the point.
I realize you're on top of each other, but you are not listening to me at all. You are the only one in control of your emotions. You are the only one in control of your actions. You are the only one in control of your reactions. Now it sounds like she's being a good co-parent for the most part and a good roommate. So what if she isn't being the wife you have idealized? Accept the good you're getting. You're stuck with it for the foreseeable future. And no you don't need to stop planning groceries and playing with the kids or doing movies with the kids together. What exactly do you think that would accomplish? Neither of you can leave. There is no prospects on the immediate horizon. Traditional DBing isn't going to work here #1. And #2 I'm not entirely sure how excluding yourself from those super specific activities living in the same home would even be DBing. What would be your plan as an alternative? Both adults go out and shop separately for separate meals when we're supposed to be limiting contact? Cutting yourself out of what seems like the last few months of memories for your daughter of the family as one unit under one roof because you want to teach your wife a lesson for not loving you? Or not loving you right? Seriously the question here isn't what card can you play to get your wife to behave the way you want her to. Filing isn't a wake up call. It's a nail in the coffin. You need to understand that. The question you really need to be asking is how can you behave and talk yourself into rational thinking so you don't make this super stressful time even more stressful for every one including you? I'm just going to say it outright. Shelf the D talk. Shelf the S talk. Shelf the bitterness. Shelf the expectations. The situation you are currently in is likely your life for the next 30 days. Maybe longer. So accept the good behavior. Ignore the bad. Start trying to find something to be grateful for every day. Your kids are the age to be high risk. You need to get your life in perspective right now.
Trust me I cry myself to sleep some nights still because he's still hot and cold. Even if it's hot more often then not these days. But we are all here. We are all healthy. H and I are still employed. And unfortunately still in limbo. But we've just decided to not talk about that since we're locked in. So be it. We're going to keep working at being amazing co-parents and roommates. And friends with benefits. Because that's where we're at. There's no point in fighting. Or being resentful. Or even wondering where we will be in 30 days. I can only think about the next day in front of us. We have no choice.
First off, I don't pretend to understand how OM affects your standpoint. Her not working, etc. I can only imagine.
Given that, your interactions with W at home seem normal to me. At least similar to mine. I don't feel disrespected in general, but occasional flareups from W and I have gotten good at ignoring. Seems to my benefit. She has a lot going on in her head, as do I.
I don't know how long term an in-home separation works (seems very challenging to me without some space), but use this time where you are stuck to your advantage. If anything, you will have a better idea how to move forward when COVID is over.
Work with her on parenting, get her opinion. Give your areas of improvement a shot. Regardless of hers. I know my W is always more on edge than me and I always try to stay cool no matter what little flareup I may get from her throughout a day. That is natural I think in our situations.
Life is short...worry about you and take a step back to see where this might go. You have time.
Im here again with the same questions and dilemmas. Wayfarer, you mentioned your H is hot and cold. You get some positives signs that show you on some level that your actions are working or can give you hope. My W is cold, frigid and arctic. There is zero connection spiritually, physically or emotionally.
I get that this shouldn't be about her. I say, Why not if she is the problem? This site is about saving marriages. I continue to work on me for me and the kids. That stuff I can do on my own and I dont come for that. I do still come here hoping for insight in to fixing the marriage.
I dont know what I can do differently. So much of dbing and advice is contradictory. I got stuck the other day when W was sick (not the bug in the news) and slept in the mbr. At bedtime I told her Im going to sleep in the master.l as well. She asked if she could stay and I go elsewhere, I said no, Im going to sleep in the mbr. She got upset, said I told her it was ok to sleep in the room (I never said she cant), said our communication is off and left. Instead of validating I told her she is often acting like a victim and will remain one if she doesnt change. We acted normal the next day.
I dont know if Im supposed to be flirty, give space, leave or what. Tough love or caring. Gentle or hard. I read red pill stuff and man did that just make me spiteful. Im out of whack as that stuff seems legit and similar to some strategy here.
So virus cohabitsting aside and yes, my goal is an intact marriage, ideally with my kids mother...what do I do? Here's the flipside, per DB and advice, I shouldn't file for D or S. Per peoples experience, in home separation doesnt work. Well then, a choice has to be one or the other right? There is no other option.
Whats the damage of asking my W at this point what she wants to dom That and only that. She'll probably ask for space again if I do. If so, what then? If a spouse is a ball and chain, at this point it's like a corpse is attached to my leg. Theres no life in the M. Im so far gone that I dont have the energy to try, if thats even the right move.
She cheated, she mentally and verbally abused me. Why should I do anything to keep allowing her to live how we are?Wayfarer, you mention it was sad that I dont want to spend money on my kids mom. Why would I support a cheater and abuser who walked out? If your H was in my shoes, would you respect him providing for you while his life is made to be hell by you? Even if you did, would that make you lean toward marriage? This woman chose to demolish a family while one of her kids was not even one year old. Why sacrifice any more for her when there is seemingly zero chance of this paning out? If i had the mental energy to keep working on me, maybe it could but I still dont want this version of her back. I get D is expensive however dragging this out then Ding is more expensive for the breadwinner.
Im back to...what am I supposed to do to try to save the marriage and should I just relationship talk at this point? Its not pursuing if I just ask wtf she wants, right?
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
