I love that you still went on that trip, you're a strong girl. Next time he tries to move the date, just tell him you already have plans for that Sunday. Don't be too accessible IMO.
I think that is really good advice, actually he literally just asked me to move March 21st to the Sunday. I said it was Mothers Day and I had plans and we could reschedule another time and left it at that.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
You probably did scare him with the word "date". If that's all it takes to scare him then you really need to back off IMO. How quickly are you responding to his text messages? I'd be very tempted to not reply to some of these messages, given his affair (I don't believe it was "just a kiss") and him moving out.
Yeah I agree tbh, if simply using the word 'date' was too much, he needs things to go very slowly and he needs more space to think about everything. I do answer texts right away, I'll try being less eager and letting more time pass, thanks.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Posting on this forum changed my life and helped me get through some really bad times, I hope it helps you too.
If it wasn't for all of you on this forum (I lurked a lot and read a lot before posting), I probably wouldn't be even in contact with my H. I think it would have ended in a massive explosion and messy fight, and we wouldn't even be on speaking terms.
I continue to read, and accept all advice, I think this forum is the best when you're in this confusing state.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
How do you know he isn't seeing someone? Wasn't he texting the OW before he moved out? Didn't he admit to kissing her?
I know I am going to sound like an over trusting sap here, but I outright asked him, he only lied to me once during this whole thing... he's a terrible liar and I knew, but I didn't want to admit it. That was 2 weeks prior to BD, and with hindsight I just didn't want to know... even though I 100% did.
My gut says he was loving the EA, and it could well have overstepped the boundaries and gone into way more than kissing had I not caused them to worry I was onto them sooner. I think SHE ended it rather than him, but I think I burst their fantasy bubble, and they both felt shame and it ruined the whole experience. I know they tried to stay friends afterwards, but it seems to have turned totally sour now, they don't seem to speak or hang out, and he left the team they were on together, and now wants to leave the company and has been applying for jobs. He also has no reason to hide anything from me right now, especially when he's in monster mode.
I'm also good friends with his childhood friend, he stayed with him over Xmas when he first moved out. Since then the mutual friend has called me and said whilst he wants me to believe it was more than a kiss, to hurt me, it actually wasn't.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Was couples therapy his idea or yours? What is the stated reason for couples therapy?
Honestly? A bit of both. So after BD when he spent a couple of days begging me not to go, I said we go to couples therapy or we are done. He agreed, we went to 2 sessions, then he wasn't happy, found an excuse to row with me, and left for Xmas.
After Xmas he had to move home for a few weeks whilst he set up his new flat, slept in spare room etc. I had come to terms it was over, and this one particular day I went to the Drs for sleeping pills, had the mother of all panic attacks, and they ended up calling in the emergency mental health team etc. I was off work, and came home around 3pm in the afternoon which is unusual. He knows that I wouldn't ever come home before 6pm, and we have Ring doorbell so he got an alert.
He tried to contact friends at my workplace to spy and find out why, but they just said I was off and they didn't know why. He rushed home all concerned, but I was done with everything that day, and refused to have a conversation. He tried to make my dinner, I declined. And then I had to go out to see a therapist that evening at 6:30pm, and refused to tell him where I was going etc.
Whilst gone he called my best friend who knew all distressed, she ended up giving him a harsh speaking to and basically saying he decided he wanted to move out and get a divorce, what did he expect? I came home later that night and he asked to talk to me, I said I didn't want to. So he spoke at me, this was the first time I'd seen him be the 'old' him, calm and caring rather than an angry monster who hates me. He told me he was too hasty, he didn't actually want a divorce, and he had said things in anger he didn't mean. He said he felt bad, but was having strong inner turmoil and confusion, and was sick of being aggressive and upsetting me, and needed time to move out and work things out.
I said moving out wasn't going to solve anything, and he needed professional help. He agreed and said he wanted to start back at couples therapy, and would I consider it.. so I agreed. I also added that the second he stops going, I'll assume we are done.
To be fair, he has been going and working hard, he even asked for a few solo sessions and they seem to have helped a little. Since moving out he's been making more of an effort, he is mostly civil, has admitted having depression etc. and promised to see a Dr. There are times he gets emotional, but it's not the aggressive monster I saw before.. that guy has gone thankfully.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
And finally
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answering work bits and bobs
Haha I'm guessing you're in the UK? I'm sure you laugh at us too...
So yesterday we went out, he seemed like his old self again which always disconcerts me, he hugged me as we met which is unusual these days.
We went for dinner and a movie in the daytime, and had a nice time, and I thanked him for driving and said I'd see him Wednesday morning when we have couples therapy.
Always so hard saying goodbye when it's been like old times, but I am also wary that it seems to be one step forwards, and ten steps back.. so am expecting some drama to follow. It's almost like he realises he's been too nice and thinks he better even the score.
He also went out with friends Saturday night for the first time since this all started, he's basically been a hermit and hidden away from everyone in his new flat playing computer games like a teenager.
Unfortunately he still hasn't been to the Drs about his depression, he had promised the therapist he would go, but I checked and he's now decided he's fine. I didn't push the point, but internally I was sad as I really thought he would make progress if he went.
Today was very hard, we had MC at 8am due to avails, definitely NOT the best time..
The MC seems to think that his inability to know or say what he wants (due to MLC/depression fog) is him simply being unable to say he doesn't want to be with me. He is not shy at saying what he thinks, and if he was simply done with what we have I truly believe he would have moved on in a flash like a WAS.
That said like all MLC'ers he is terrible with his money right now, and as predicted, he is blaming having to pay 50% of the mortgage on our family home, and also paying rent on his flat. I know what he earns, and the reality is, he should have a lot of money leftover after bills, based on the fact he hasn't been going out at all, and he still had a lot of disposable income.
I know he's been drinking, but even drinking at home shouldn't be costing that much which is worrying me about what he's wasting it on. His father was/is a gambler, and I sincerely hope he hasn't followed down that path. He never had when I knew him.
The other thing that surfaced is his desire to rush the house sale to free up some cash, he had originally said he wouldn't make any decisions in the first 6 months. Here we are on month 2 and due to his inability to keep his cash flow working, he now wants to force the house sale. I can't stop him obviously, but I also won't be rushing to make it easy either..
My main thoughts right now are, do I sell and rent whilst I 'stand' and see if he can work through this. Or do I sell and buy myself a small place and cut my losses and move on? I really don't want to walk away so soon, but can I handle anymore limbo or temporary living... whilst I still had the family home I could cope, but the idea of moving somewhere alien temporarily seems a step backwards...
Also I am so fed up with the MC right now, it feels like she's pushing a split, and that makes me want to say forget everything..MC, the marriage the lot.... but I know right now I am tired and angry and I need to sleep on it and reflect.
Also I am so fed up with the MC right now, it feels like she's pushing a split, and that makes me want to say forget everything..MC, the marriage the lot.... but I know right now I am tired and angry and I need to sleep on it and reflect.
Stop MC. He isn't committed to working on the marriage. Likely he is doing MC just to check it off the list. "See, we tried everything, even MC."
Traditional MC has a very very very low success rate of saving MRs. First, a lot of MCs are not anti-D. If you are not seeing a faith-based MC likely they feel that D is a worthy outcome. They simply are not committed to saving MRs. Almost all D'd couples did MC. That kind of shows how well MC works.
MC works when two people are committed to the MR. When one is halfway out, MC has almost no chance of working. And is a complete waste of time and money.
Next time you talk to him I'd say: "I’ve decided against going to further marriage counseling sessions. I feel that it would just be going through the motions at this point. I’m going to start individual counseling on my own. A lot has happened and I need help processing it so I can heal and move forward."
Then get into IC and work on yourself.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Stop MC. He isn't committed to working on the marriage. Likely he is doing MC just to check it off the list. "See, we tried everything, even MC."
Thanks Steve85, I think you are absolutely right. It IS just a waste of money, I think I was secretly hoping it would help him with the MLC aspect, but it's clear that the MC has no idea how to handle that. I will email him right now and tell him what you said.
I had a good day today, after a very stressful/emotionally exhausting Wednesday, I managed to pick myself up and dust myself off and look for a new place to live. I am viewing the house tomorrow and really hope this can be the start of a proper detachment where I don't have to ride this rollercoaster of emotions any more.
Now for the really hard part, dividing up all our possessions and hoping it doesn't lead to more fights.
I am also really concerned that when we do sell our home, and I pay him his 50%, that he will fritter it away. I know that's not my problem, but it kills me that he's so self destructive right now
So at the weekend I told my H that I didn't see the point in continuing with the therapy. Especially if he was serious about selling the family home, he confirmed he was.
I don't know if I did wrong here, but I said that basically spoke volumes and felt like a decision to me, and he confirmed. Then he said he still wanted to do therapy and still wanted to see me every other Saturday?? Why??
I know thew MLC'er isn't the most logical person, but I just can't understand this.
I need some advice please, at this point should I be cutting him off and going dark to let him work through it all and see if he comes out of the tunnel? Or should I be taking advantage of the fact he still wants to see me, and being happy/friendly and seeing if he sees sense?
Hi, Sorr0w--bumping this so more can see it. I would guess it might be good to not be available all the time when he wants you to be, because you have your own life, your own plans! And when you do see him, you can keep up that PMA. Vets may have more to say...
So at the weekend I told my H that I didn't see the point in continuing with the therapy. Especially if he was serious about selling the family home, he confirmed he was.
Just to clarify, we're talking about MC here, not IC. You should continue IC if possible. But yes, discontinue MC. It should not be pursued unless and until the WAS is interested in recon.
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I don't know if I did wrong here, but I said that basically spoke volumes and felt like a decision to me, and he confirmed.
Do you read Sandi's rules every day? Do you know the rule about not believing anything they say and only half of what they do? The reason for that rule is the WAS can flip flop around all over the place. He's done today, not so done tomorrow, ready to recon the day after, then done again the day after that. Don't believe it and don't react to it.
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Then he said he still wanted to do therapy and still wanted to see me every other Saturday?? Why??
Tell him he should pursue IC but that there will be no more MC. Also tell him you do not want to see him every other Saturday, you're not going to be his best friend. As for why, he wants to go to MC so he can say "we tried everything but it just didn't work out." Why he wants to continue seeing you, to keep you on as Plan B. It's cake-eating.
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I need some advice please, at this point should I be cutting him off and going dark to let him work through it all and see if he comes out of the tunnel?
Yesterday!
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Or should I be taking advantage of the fact he still wants to see me, and being happy/friendly and seeing if he sees sense?
No, absolutely not. He would only do that for the wrong reasons right now. He's got to learn to miss you and think he may lose you before he'll start addressing his issues.
