Figured he was having an EA in early Nov 2019. ILYB Dec 2019. EA became PA at some point in here. Early Jan 2020 says he’s moving out in April. Haven’t really seen any movement in either direction. In fact he’s been walking the line between the two lives as of late instead of hostile, silent, avoidant or just plain missing.
I feel like there should be a way for her to transition to, okay, you've stated your decision for now, so how can we focus on your happiness and wellbeing in the now? My IC sometimes says, How can I support you right now? Or, What kind of support do you need right now? I don't always know how to answer her. I don't see why you couldn't be honest with her and say, you know, "I am confident in my decision for now, though I give myself the freedom to change my mind. This is the kind of support I feel I need this week: xyz." Or just, as you say, "I need support on the path I've chosen." You can let her know it might not be a good fit for you otherwise, but maybe you wouldn't even have to say that. You could just know it. If she doesn't start to meet you where you are, you could reach out to some other ICs.
I’ve already reached out to the counselor who did our one whole discernment session. She said as long as H is fine with it she can take me on as an individual. Since he said “I hope you know I’m never seeing that b**ch again.” I think we’re safe. She’s the one who told me to pick up DR and to come here. She upfront said she can definitely help me on my path. And that she’s not perfect and to be sure to communicate with her if we ever aren’t seeing eye to eye or she’s not meeting my needs supporting me. I think it’s just better that I cut ties and move on.
I feel you. I got in bed last night and I could smell H (He probably was sleeping here when we were out of town). It made me really miss him. I actually texted him and said I miss him. Of course, no text back. My first late-night-couldn’t-stop-myself text and probably my last. When I look at him, I miss his old aura. Now there’s this empty shell around him. Even when he’s being friendly, loving....it’s just not the same anymore.
But sweet memories aside, I’m glad that he’s removed himself from this family for now and has taken that darkness with him. The anger, the frustration, the irritability, the yelling, just whole bunch of negativity in general....I would not want to take those back for brief moments of love.
Wooba that aura thing got me. I felt that. My H isn’t a shell. He’s just off. Even when he’s away from me the one or two of his friends who will actually engage with me tell me it’s like he’s pretending to be who he was. Not a shell but like photocopy of a photocopy. Not quite right. That’s another thing that helps me stay detached. Even when he starts being like his old self it’s like a person pretending to be him. That alien feeling I guess. Just not full fledged. Like one that’s learned how to assimilate.
Just an update. And for even newer newbies this is why detachment is key. Things that happened in the last 2 hours. My step daughter informed me her dad picked her up from school for the first time in weeks. That he told her about OW and told her he would like her to meet OW. An hour after she told me that he came home from the gym. He had a 25 min convo with me. Was excited about the dinner I made. It’s one of his favorites. Ate dinner with us as a family and asked what movie I want to watch. He’s texting her. I can see it. But looks over at me at the funny parts. This roller coaster is every day. If I couldn’t detach and let him drag me along for this ride I’d be a bigger mess than him. A guy friend said as he dives deeper into his R with OW the more attractive I’ll look if I can keep this up. I become the unattainable one. I become the one that isn’t needy. I’m the one who demands nothing from him. Zero expectations. He may leave. He may fully pursue the OW, but he’ll do so looking over his shoulder. On the days it’s really, really hard I think about that. Whether I decide to stand in the long haul or not me firmly planted in his review mirror keeps me going. I’m more than happy to be the one that got away.
Wayfarer, wooba... this is weird. I saw that off-ness in my H (in retrospect now it started in the beginning months of his A a couple of years ago). I so clearly remember starting MC with him the first time and he was so cold and remote and weird about so many things and I wondered who this person was who looked like my H but inside was someone else?
That off-ness is gone. It went away sloooowly, probably starting six months ago, then faster as things started to come to light. I would say in the last few weeks, since (a) he told me the full scope of their A and (b) we slept together-- not sure if the latter has anything to do with it but since it started again the same night as the last BD it is hard to separate-- he feels back. We connect again as friends and it doesn't feel forced. That being said, he's sad, confused, so so torn, not in love with me, very well may leave me etc... but that weirdness is gone (at least for now). Not sure what that means. Probably nothing. I do know that the lying was really, really weighing on him and maybe getting that off his chest has made a big difference for him.
Wayfarer, seeing the discernment counselor sounds like a great plan-- let us know how it goes. I have my first IC appointment next week.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
So I as usual jinxed myself. Kids left the room and H asks be how I’m doing. Then asks “how are you really doing?” I say to him a “Huh?” Then he asked again. Told him I’m doing as well as can be expected. I ask how he is and he says same. Then he goes into asking if things are still in motion for him to move out in April. I said things are exactly the same. I’m solvent in June with out your income but I need help in April and May exactly as we talked about before. He just lost it. He basically called me a welfare queen because I won’t get a second job to make it work. I can say with absolute certainty that I did not detach nor did I DB in anyway until the end of that mess. I did calmly inform him that if he won’t voluntarily help me the court will make him. Which then he started screaming at me that I’m threatening him and that he knew I’d do that and that I always do that. He tried to leave in a huff. I managed to talk him out of it and asked for a few minutes where he really listens. I asked why it was my responsibility to bank roll his life choices that destroyed our MR. He went back to the welfare queen thing for a second. Then shifted gears into I said I’ll try to get you that money I don’t know why that isn’t good enough. I said I don’t have a lot of faith in you saying you’ll try right now. I’m sorry. He went on about how long am I going go make him suffer. He’s miserable on the couch. He’s miserable working 7 days a week. He’s miserable being stuck here. I said I’m sorry that you’re so miserable. I don’t want you to suffer or be miserable. I’m not sure why you think that. I’m not that person. And I really do understand how miserable you are better than most. I don’t know why you keep trying to make me the villain in your story. And rewriting who we were and who I am. And then I went full anti-DB I said I think the real issue here is you have no idea how hard it is for me to constantly be trying to keep things going smoothly and just let go of you giving you all the space you want so you can be happy. You’re the one that doesn’t love me anymore. I still love you and I’d never want you to suffer or be miserable. I genuinely want you to be happy but I can’t put your happiness above my survival or my sanity. I offered you the bed on weekends you won’t take it because you’re out all night. That offer still stands. I’ll say you trying to get me the money I’m asking for is enough for me if that’s what it takes. I do still want to do the legal separation and do it jointly and split the household as amicable as possible like we discussed a long time ago. I’m sorry if you thought I was threatening you. That was never my intention. And I’m sorry that I yelled back at you. I really didn’t want to be like that. But you have to understand you spent the better part of 2 months acting like I was the worst thing that ever happened to you when you come at me my anxiety rises and I get defensive because I’m terrified of what awful thing you’ll say to me. He looked at me and his eyes were welling up and said when did I ever say awful things to you and immediately turned away. I told him some of the things he’s said. He then said I’m rewriting what happened he never said any of those things. Especially not I never really loved you. I said I didn’t say I believed it but it was said. I really am sorry the way this conversation went. Still won’t look at me. Eyes still welling up. He says it’s fine I’ll get over it. I got up and went to shower. He left while I was in there.
I cried in the shower. I called my bff and cried some more. She asked that maybe I be vulnerable around him the way I am with her. Especially the way I told her I do really just want him to be a happy, healthy, whole person with or with out me regardless of any other thoughts I have on that. I said that while crying a lot. I’m not a big crier but this has got me some place else. The thing is how I am with her is the truth. My truth. At the core of this whole mess I love him and while I logically know his misery has little to do with him being “stuck” here I do feel that I’d just like to see him actually happy again. I told her though that I couldn’t do that. I can’t let him see me cry ever again. That he’ll have to take the version of thatt that he got with my walls up because he’s not in a place to give a damn about my vulnerability. He doesn’t even have enough empathy to think “man I do owe her at least a little financial help for a little while.” How could he possibly see me fall apart telling him I love him and I only want him to be happy? More than anything I want him to find real joy again while I sob? How would that possibly go any other way than him looking at me and thinking I’m pathetic? She agreed. But said I worry you need that moment where you get to say how you really feel about all this and you won’t do it because you want to win, or refuse to let him see you weak, or you’ve decided he doesn’t deserve to be let in ever again. I worry your pride and plan here is going to stop you from putting everything out there that you’d really deep down like to.
Honestly she’s right. I want to say so much. But I also don’t want to say a word DB or no DB. I have no idea if putting these walls up constantly are proper DB or stopping me from a 180. I was a pursuer but not the crying begging kind. I’d constantly block his path running and logic him back. And as much as I complain he may have never really known me I guess I never did take all the walls down for him. I was rarely completely vulnerable. I was a softer version of my normal grade A b**ch self but never fully went open with him. I guess if we ever got to MC we’d have to talk about that. But I should probably write that down fir my next IC. Ugh this is a hot mess. I guess I’ll jump back in the DB wagon in the morning. And start all over.
I had somehow missed your earlier post last night.... It is the absolute worst when it *seems * like things are all going great and yet they're not.
Whenever I had R talks in the same place you are now, I always wished I hadn't... but then also was glad I had a better sense of what was really going on. Don't worry about not DB-ing. You were authentic and you didn't play into what maybe he was (subconsciously) fishing for, either a "yay yes, so looking forward to April 1, you're totally off the hook" or turning into a raging b**ch so he can justify why he wants to leave. (And welfare queen? Really? I hope you can just laugh at that.) It very well could be that the nice daily interactions fed an impression that you were fine with just being friends. I know that has been the case with my H during spots of all of this. Not to say you shouldn't do it, but they're so desperately wanting to be given permission to do whatever it is they want/need to do without hurting you that I'm sure they will glom onto any bit of "evidence" that feeds that fantasy.
Things to keep in mind:
-- no matter what he is saying, he IS torn and confused and sad. You saw that in his responses and his tears. -- if it was so hellish at home, he'd be gone. Don't feel guilty about him sleeping on the couch or whatever. It is his choice. -- his head is so far up his own backside right now that he probably simply *can't* see you where you are and really understand what you need or what you're saying or showing him. Maybe it helps to think of him like a brain-damaged person. He just doesn't have the tools right now to deal with you or his feelings about you/OW/life generally. -- you need to do what you are comfortable with in terms of showing him your vulnerability or not. I think the DB stance would be DO NOT and since that seems to align with your own comfort space I would go with it.
Sometimes a good cry is what you need. Maybe write everything you want to say down in a letter and put it away. Maybe sometime you can give it to him, or not.
You got this, wayfarer. Re-read your own thread. (*I* read your old posts for strength all the time!!)
((HUGS))
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I think vulnerability is a tricky thing. DB says no, show him the upbeat & carefree side always, but I don’t agree with is completely. The rare occasions when I couldn’t help myself and showed my vulnerability to my H, he sometimes would reciprocate and lower his guard, and tell me that he’s hurting too. These windows to his inner self are extremely small and they’d only last a few seconds. It’s as if he felt the hurt and the wave that’s coming and he decided to shut the window again.
If we didn’t have those brief moments of honesty, we would be these two strange people pretending to be happy and upbeat all the time in front of each other. Making small talk. Smiling. Making jokes. Touching each other even.
I’ve thought about it too - does showing vulnerability and that I still care make me a plan B (I hate that expression btw)? He still has me under his spell? I don’t think so. I’ve told him I’m standing for the M. So obviously I care about us and I still love him. But I’m moving forward with my life regardless. I’m not moping around waiting for him to come back. I’m GALing and he can see that. Showing vulnerability does not make you weak. It keeps you honest with yourself. You can be strong and embrace your vulnerabilities.
-- no matter what he is saying, he IS torn and confused and sad. You saw that in his responses and his tears. -- if it was so hellish at home, he'd be gone. Don't feel guilty about him sleeping on the couch or whatever. It is his choice. -- his head is so far up his own backside right now that he probably simply *can't* see you where you are and really understand what you need or what you're saying or showing him. Maybe it helps to think of him like a brain-damaged person. He just doesn't have the tools right now to deal with you or his feelings about you/OW/life generally. -- you need to do what you are comfortable with in terms of showing him your vulnerability or not. I think the DB stance would be DO NOT and since that seems to align with your own comfort space I would go with it.
Sometimes a good cry is what you need. Maybe write everything you want to say down in a letter and put it away. Maybe sometime you can give it to him, or not.
You got this, wayfarer. Re-read your own thread. (*I* read your old posts for strength all the time!!)
((HUGS))
I did not find the welfare queen comment funny. I’m the one who threw the term at him. I do now a bit but at the time not at all. He compared me to his D’s mother and said “Your plan is just kicking it expecting me to pay for two household.” He and I grew up on government cheese and peanut butter. (Any one from the UK reading this I’ll be happy to explain) we’ve both worked since we were in our early teens for survival not just nice things. The fact that he was acting like I just wanted his money for poops and giggles or so I could get a handbag I don’t know was super infuriating at the time.
I really needed the “things to keep in mind.” Today was a rough day. Not a hopeless day. Not a challenging day. I just couldn’t shake how he made me feel flipping out and yelling the way he did. The old H wouldn’t have been like that. And it’s hard to adjust when the alien come flying back after weeks of being gone. And that kind of accusatory yelling triggers me. Back to childhood and my junkie ex. CPTSD is no joke. So shaking that crappy flashback feeling today was super hard. I couldn’t concentrate. But this helped me with some relief.
I did write him that letter. I think I need to revise it when my head is in a better space. And maybe I’ll read it someday. Who knows.
I think vulnerability is a tricky thing. DB says no, show him the upbeat & carefree side always, but I don’t agree with is completely. The rare occasions when I couldn’t help myself and showed my vulnerability to my H, he sometimes would reciprocate and lower his guard, and tell me that he’s hurting too. These windows to his inner self are extremely small and they’d only last a few seconds. It’s as if he felt the hurt and the wave that’s coming and he decided to shut the window again.
If we didn’t have those brief moments of honesty, we would be these two strange people pretending to be happy and upbeat all the time in front of each other. Making small talk. Smiling. Making jokes. Touching each other even.
I’ve thought about it too - does showing vulnerability and that I still care make me a plan B (I hate that expression btw)? He still has me under his spell? I don’t think so. I’ve told him I’m standing for the M. So obviously I care about us and I still love him. But I’m moving forward with my life regardless. I’m not moping around waiting for him to come back. I’m GALing and he can see that. Showing vulnerability does not make you weak. It keeps you honest with yourself. You can be strong and embrace your vulnerabilities.
I was trying to get to this last night, but it was a long day with very little sleep the night before and I honestly fell asleep trying to respond last night. The little windows of vulnerability from him that I can recognize. I've seen it. But it's only when I'm stoically calm saying incredibly emotional things. In the beginning my tears made him.....volatile, I guess would be a good word. I can't really say explosive. It wasn't exactly rage. But it was cruel. He said the most awful stuff to me when I was a tearful mess. How he'd behave now, who he is now I have no idea. But I can't shake the fear of opening up and being actually vulnerable instead of saying my piece in a completely controlled manner DB or anti-DB aside and I worry if my fear is founded was looking for that window of humanity and vulnerability worth it.
With the exception of the fights and the handful of calm talks in Nov and Dec we are "two strange people pretending to be happy and upbeat all the time in front of each other. Making small talk. Smiling. Making jokes." Basically Jan 9 to Feb 4 that's exactly who we were. And as messed up as it is I took comfort in that. It's calm.
So the Plan B thing is a thing I struggle with too, because being here with so many in the same boat what I can see is LBS aren't exactly a Plan B. It seems more like Plan A1 running Plan A2 staying. It feels like most of these WS are constantly unconsciously weighing them against each other and a lot of the time they stay on equal footing.
But to continue with the vulnerability talk. H has asked me repeatedly to watch Marriage Story. I know the premise. I know about Charlie reading the letter at the end and other important points. But I can't bring myself to do it yet. My other fear here is that my bff is right. That I have to let him in. That this push to watch that damn movie means something. That he wants to know what I'm thinking and feeling but won't outright ask. And even though he's completely tunneled in his own mess most of the time he still knows me well enough to know that I won't let him in on my own, because I don't want him to let him have that kind of power over me. I know none of this is coming from a place of control. I know he isn't trying to win by what is happening here but because of my past that's just how I operate. My factory preset is if I show weakness, hurt, fear, any of it that I'm giving in, that I'm giving the person hurting me exactly what they want. I think what my friend wants for me is to just tell him what I think and feel about all of this, because I haven't. Other than the night I raged, and when we've fought since he's never really gotten any of the things I think or feel. Because I am so A type all of our calm conversations even before DB were action oriented. What are we going to do? How are we going forward? How do we handle this with the kids? I haven't talked about the pain. I haven't talked about my love for him. I haven't talked about how I'm handling this. I haven't talked about my fears for our future apart. I was the first to take my ring off. I was the one who told him to go to couch. I went radio silent first. I go radio silent the longest. Which some of is DBing and some is me just being me. As far as standing, I wouldn't ever tell him I'm standing for this M. Or that I think he'll be back some day. I'd never let him have any indicator that I'm not moving on. DB or no DB. There's no way in hell I'd let him have my hope for the future. He honestly thinks I already am moving on he's said as much. And I'd like to keep it that way. I'm struggling to find a way to bridge the gap between protecting myself from him and giving myself the closure I'll need. I know won't ever truly be able to move on if I don't say at least some of what I want to say. But I also don't want to sacrifice a part of the inner me to a person who doesn't give a d@mn and on any given day I don't know what or who he cares about besides himself.
