Me: 49 W: 47 S 15, D 12 M 27 years (Sept 1992) BD Jan 2018 She moved out June 2019
I could write heaps. Hopefully this has all the main details without being too long.
I totally love my wife but did everything wrong and sent absolutely the opposite message.
I worked too long and didn't contribute enough to our relationship, our family or our domestic affairs.
I spoke in my love languages (physical touch, words of affirmation) to her but not hers (acts of service, quality time), not realising my 'signal' wasn't being received. As a result she felt I only used her to cook and clean and in the bedroom, but I never knew this was how she felt.
I saw the workload as 50/50 and felt used and unhappy when after working 6 days a week I'd come home to jobs left undone.
We didn't talk about what we wanted out of life and just fell into a routine once we were married.
Having kids has been great but added additional pressures. My wife never went back to work full time, first starting at three days a week and then four. I didn't mind this but nothing extra got done at home so to my 50/50 mindset it seemed even more unfair.
My wife talked to girlfriends and her mother a lot (apparently talks to her mum on the phone for an hour every day). She didn't have much conversation for me. I felt left out, jealous and talked about.
Her mum is currently married to her third husband and has had at least one other significant other in between. I don't think she has ever been a fan of mine and I don't think she sees divorce as a big deal.
When my wife would want to do something I disagreed with, I would try to present my view. I felt we were having discussions but she saw it as controlling. I felt "controlling" was a convenient label she used to shut down any argument that didn't go her way.
No affairs, no violence. We've never called each other names or used putdowns. We haven't even really shouted at each other (much).
We are Christians and don't believe in divorce. (Or at least, I don't. I thought my wife didn't either. Our relationship started when her parents' divorce was finalised and she came to me, her friend, for comfort.)
I never imagined we'd be in this situation. Like many husbands I've read about, this seemed to be a bolt from the blue (even though it really isn't). My wife told me she has read lots of marriage books and has changed herself a lot, but is not going to change for me any more. This is a mystery to me - since this all happened I've read stacks of books and tried to share what they said with my wife. (I know now that its the wrong step to take, but my point is that she definitely knew I was reading marriage guidance books. My wife doesn't lie, so if she said she read lots of books, she must have - but when? And where was the "I've just read this, can we try it?" etc that you do when you seize on a new idea?)
In January 2018 she told me she wanted a divorce, and that she'd fight me for the kids. She also wanted to leave her job and move the family interstate.
I made changes and did everything to demonstrate change. My working life got completely tipped upside down, allowing me to escape on time, something I've kept up (barring a very few exceptions) for two years. I lost 18kg. I took on the washing, cooking, shopping, ironing, banking, etc. I asked every day "What can I do to make your day better?" I learnt how to make her favourite dinner and her favourite cake. I became a student of my wife, asking about anything I could think of to know more about her. I worked out how to give a really good foot rub (and lymphatic massage) as she always suffers with sore feet and swollen ankles. After several months she told me off for making her too lazy to leave me!
During all this time, "I don't love you" became "I haven't loved you for years. You must've known" and then "I've never loved you." My wife said there is no point trying to resurrect her love because it never existed.
In October 2018 she had a change of heart and we had a really good couple of months. I had to go overseas for work. She texted me to say how much she missed me and was keen to see me again. Our reunion was sweet and we made plans to spend Christmas with her mother. By December however things were on the wane so it was a nice surprise that when we sat on the plane to go there, she took my hand and deliberately rested it on her leg. Other than that, Christmas wasn't so great.
In January 2019 she changed the picture on her facebook page to an image saying "Time to be happy". She told me she was going to move out and started looking for places. I felt sick in my stomach watching my wife searching, searching, searching real estate websites every night after the kids were in bed. For years we'd saved up money we intended to use for an investment property, and looking for an investment property was one of those tasks I'd asked her to do on Fridays but never happened. I asked why she couldn't have found a property for us (that would help with our income and help me reduce working hours and therefore benefit us) but could go all-out when it was about moving out. "This is different," was all she'd say.
I asked my wife to go to counselling lots of times, but she kept turning me down. Her mother had told her you only go to counselling if you decide to make the marriage work. I couldn't convince her otherwise for a long time. She even turned to me one night and said "You don't really believe counselling is helpful for anything serious do you?"
I can't remember how but she finally agreed. At the start of the first session her first question to the counsellor was "You need to do this before you can get divorced, right?" Things went well at the second session but afterwards she went into the bedroom, closed the door and spoke to her mum. I couldn't hear what was said but she was boiling mad about the session afterwards. It was if she though "Oh no! This might actually help! I better make sure I don't go down the path of reconciliation!" She was angry at the counsellor because she felt he was pro-marriage. Before the third session my wife told me I had to tell the counsellor we were stopping, but the session was so good she wanted to go again. By the fifth session however she had found a place near our home, which we bought. My wife moved out in June 2019.
We take weekly turns having the kids.
For several months we were having dinner together as a family one a fortnight or so, and lunch together once a week. At one point in July or August she cried, almost on my shoulder, that I was meant to hold her and I let her fall. In September we had a fantastic week where everything seemed to turn around. She told me that in her heart of hearts she hoped we would get back together again. She even called me 'darling' at one point.
In late October however (shortly after a visit from her mother, not sure whether to draw any conclusions) she said we needed to limit contact to just talking logistics to do with swapping the kids over. She pretty much ignores me in most conversations and situations. When I bring the kids, she looks at each one of them solidly for minutes, as if not to see me out of the corner of her eye. After ten minutes talking I'll get a brief "Hi" which is said as she turns away from me. The times I do get a reaction is when I do something that makes her cross - which seems to be all the time. She doesn't share any information, answers questions by text with as few words as possible ("OK") and then gets upset when I misunderstand or want to clarify. I feel every niggle is jumped on as something to add to her list of why getting rid of me is such a good idea.
My wife has told me several times how broken she is and that she needs time to work out what she wants to do. She says she is on the fence but everything feels like it is leaning heavily towards divorce and never reconciliation. In the last week she has told me she wants to split the joint bank account. A photo of us she put near her bed in the new house has gone (it was still there at Christmas). She is largely blanking me when we are together. (I've stopped saying "Oh, I've gone invisible again" when yet another attempt at conversation is completely ignored.) I think she has told the rest of her family about us now.
The kids are very upset about it all. They told me that my wife had asked them if she seemed happier now (to which they'd said 'yes') but also that she hadn't asked them how they in turn felt.
On the positive side, my wife is still wearing her wedding ring.
My questions are:
Is there any hope after so long? I like to think the clock only started in June, when she moved out, or after September, when she liked me again for a while.
I can see her thoughts adding to an overwhelming circle of negativity. She keeps dwelling on the past. The kids tell me about angry reactions she has had to stupid things I did ten years ago. How do I encourage her to think positively about our relationship and me?
Can negative thinking/anger be a good thing? I read that indifference is the killer and anger is not such a bad sign - it shows she is still invested and upset that I haven't protected her how I should.
She grabs every niggle and adds it to her 'evidence' list. Everything I do is wrong or misinterpreted. Should I try to explain these to her, or keep away and avoid anything that sounds like justification?
We have had several good periods where we have been intimate again. For me these are doubly-good because as well as the physical joy, I can give my love and feel loved this way. Is it ever a good idea for me to try initiating with my wife? (I have to leave it 100% up to her, right?)
Thanks everyone. I would have liked to be on the forum sooner but I had heaps of problems registering.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Have no false hope. Have no false despair. Have faith in the process. Ultimately your W has to have a change of heart. Typically, this does not happen over night. Focus on you and making positive changes to your behavior and how you interact with her.
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How do I encourage her to think positively about our relationship and me?
You don't. You validate how she feels. Expressing your beliefs and feelings do not help, but rather hurt your relationship. Trying to control her does not help either.
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Can negative thinking/anger be a good thing?
Any emotional response from her is a good thing. How you react (or rather do not react) is key. You find your happiness. You do not shift your emotional state based off of other peoples emotional state.
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She grabs every niggle and adds it to her 'evidence' list. Everything I do is wrong or misinterpreted. Should I try to explain these to her, or keep away and avoid anything that sounds like justification?
You just validate how she feels. Memorize the validation thread. Another Stander is very wise in the ways of validating.
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We have had several good periods where we have been intimate again. For me these are doubly-good because as well as the physical joy, I can give my love and feel loved this way. Is it ever a good idea for me to try initiating with my wife? (I have to leave it 100% up to her, right?)
Ultimately you do what works. Stop doing what doesn't work. What works for me. I initiate. If rejected, I do not take it personally. I focus on being attractive and seductive and wait for her to initiate.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Really sorry to hear about this. A bolt out the blue is just what this is.
You'll find a lot of helpful people on the forum.
While Joe said it was a bolt out of the blue, he also said it wasn't. Often times when we hear "ILYBINILWY" or "I want a divorce" we forget how unhappy we were leading up to BD. My sitch sounds a lot like Joe's. Now that I am two years past BD I can look back and realize just how unhappy I was leading up to BD.
Joe has shown some clarity here with his comment about it not totally being a blot from the blue. That kind of insight is key in DBing well!
Joe, you can turn this around. Just DB your butt off and you have a decent chance of turning it around.
Joe, my threads might be of some use. Don't focus so much on my posts, but on the outstanding posts I got from sandi, AnotherStander, R2C and other vets here:
Thank you for the kind words and advice. I have the DB book (got it in 2018) but have to read it again.
Steve85, I've been lurking for a long time. You posted a comment elsewhere along the lines of "Every LBH that comes here seems to have a death grip on their WAW", and how that is the surest way to a divorce. That is definitely how I've been up until recently. I'm now trying (again) not to be that way. I mentally understand the pursuit/distancing thing, where my drawing closer makes my wife move away again to maintain that safe distance, and how it can end up with her far, far away, but it's such a challenge. It's so hard to do nothing. There's an anxious feeling, "What if she sees me leaving her alone and assumes I'm not interested any more?" The emotion is what we feel so it tends to overpower the thought process.
My pastor said it's like making a souffle - if I keep looking in the oven every five minutes to see how it's going, it's just going to be totally wrecked. So the lesson from all directions is leave it alone!
Really sorry to hear about this. A bolt out the blue is just what this is.
You'll find a lot of helpful people on the forum.
Thanks Drh.
It really was a bolt from the blue for me. I thought everything was okay. Looking everywhere for advice I've repeatedly found this is how it happens for a lot of men. And as Michelle says in her writings, the crazy thing is that it's the one event that sends a signal to men that they finally recognise, and act on, but it's all too late.
Now I've read a million articles and quite a few marriage books, I actually have an idea how to be a much, much better husband. Even though I didn't see the problems in our marriage, in hindsight it was flat and unexciting. It didn't have the spark of joy it should've had. I get very excited thinking about how differently I'd do things in the future, and how good our marriage could be. That's jumping ahead though. I learned not to share any insights or hopes with my wife as she's not at that place yet and can't see it ever happening. I dare not mention such things as she almost seems to take it as a challenge to ensure the opposite happens.
Even though I didn't see the problems in our marriage, in hindsight it was flat and unexciting. It didn't have the spark of joy it should've had. I get very excited thinking about how differently I'd do things in the future, and how good our marriage could be. That's jumping ahead though. I learned not to share any insights or hopes with my wife as she's not at that place yet and can't see it ever happening. I dare not mention such things as she almost seems to take it as a challenge to ensure the opposite happens.
Its your job to make things exciting for yourself, its not your job to make her feel happy - that is up to her.
We are all responsible for our own happiness and mental health.
We can only change ourselves not others.
Make yourself into a person only a fool would leave.
How do I encourage her to think positively about our relationship and me?
You don't. You validate how she feels. Expressing your beliefs and feelings do not help, but rather hurt your relationship. Trying to control her does not help either.
I don't want to control my wife or her thinking, but I would like to share insights I've learned in case they help her. Throughout the two years this has been going on, she's largely been feeding the divorce dog and starving the marriage dog. I've seen her constantly mull over negative thoughts so they grow and grow and make her more and more upset. I don't see how she will ever come round to working on our marriage with that mindset. I believe from various sources (Gottman, Schlessinger, Gary Smalley, & others) that making an effort to focus on the positives in me will help bring her viewpoint back to a more normal point. I don't want to win, I don't want to invalidate her, I don't want to control her, I just want to say "Have you seen this idea before? Maybe it is worth considering." I guess that is too much?
I will definitely read the validation thread as validation is an area I struggle with. I don't know how to put forward an alternative view or plan without it being taken as controlling or invalidating. My wife used to say "It's all about you!" when I put forward a suggestion. It always seemed like an unfair sledge hammer used to get rid of anything I said. In my mind it made it "all about her", as, in blitzing my position, hers was the only argument left.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by JoeDredd
She grabs every niggle and adds it to her 'evidence' list. Everything I do is wrong or misinterpreted. Should I try to explain these to her, or keep away and avoid anything that sounds like justification?
You just validate how she feels. Memorize the validation thread.
Unfortunately we do not see much of each other now and it is the kids who tell me about how angry and upset my wife gets recalling past events. I'm not there at the time and not meant to know, so I can't easily get into a position to validate.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by JoeDredd
We have had several good periods where we have been intimate again. For me these are doubly-good because as well as the physical joy, I can give my love and feel loved this way. Is it ever a good idea for me to try initiating with my wife? (I have to leave it 100% up to her, right?)
Ultimately you do what works. Stop doing what doesn't work. What works for me. I initiate. If rejected, I do not take it personally. I focus on being attractive and seductive and wait for her to initiate.
At the moment she is so stand-offish with me I hesitate to initiate. I'd really like to, for all the usual reasons, (and also because of all the downsides to celibacy - risk of depression, cancer, death, etc!) but also because every time we have met each other's needs in this way it has helped turn things around positively for a time.
Last edited by job; 02/02/2003:40 PM. Reason: Removed outside referenced link title not related to DB
