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Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2880973
01/16/20 05:19 PM
01/16/20 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OS2
Should I be asking her for proof of no numbers or contact with him on her phone? Do you think she is directing attention away from him by concentrating conversation on our marriage and saying he's disposable?

Do I make demands on seeing her phone and proving there is no contact etc ongoing? Should I detach and then ask for that when she makes contact?


IN the order you asked:

Absolutely NO!
I don't know.
Absolutely NO!
Yes you should detach, NO don't ask for that when she makes contact!

Where is your DBing? Where is your GAL? How are you 180ing and improving yourself? Where is your work on detaching? I none of that in anything you are doing. The woman left you. Went to stay somewhere else. Started an A, and as soon as she gives lip service to "I am sorry. I hate myself. I will go to his place and tell him it is over, for an hour, but then I agree to your demand to no contact with him!" you are running over there to stay with her. Sorry OS2, that is not DBing.

If you read the experts on the best way to attract her back, it is the EXACT opposite of what you are doing. MWD is one of many, and trust me I've read a ton of the experts' advice, that advocates the approach of backing off. Giving time and space.

The time for full transparency on her part will come when she has come back AND been consistent in her actions and behavior for a time. Before that you run the risk of her going wayward on you again. TRUST me on that count. I lived it.

GAL. Focus on yourself and your 180s. Work on detachment. Become the spouse only a fool would leave, but leave her alone to figure out her own stuff!!


M(50), W(51),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2880990
01/16/20 06:48 PM
01/16/20 06:48 PM
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Thanks Steve85. Saw W tonight at the gym, did my own thing and she said she wants to meet for lunch or tomorrow night. Think Iím busy for both anyway but should I be meeting up with her for these? Some of the time and be busy the rest of the time? Or should I treat this as dating and have a busy life but schedule around my plans?

Curious about the proof concept with texting. W was always on her phone with friends and of course OM. Is there a point where itís right to ask for proof of no contact or should I rely on knowing she wants to be with me through her actions? It seems counter intuitive to not care but I absolutely understand the logic and display of confidence behind it.

I find detachment works so well in attracting attention like the dance thatís often described. I donít know whether I should be staying detached though or taking just some of the attention for meet-ups. I sometimes feel that our M (because weíre married just a short amount of time and in 30s) isnít appropriate for some of the severity of some of the DB rules which may include bad breakups, very wayward spouses, abusive, and repeat behaviour. I know that probably sounds naive because Iíve got a W who cheated but there is still a lot of love between us no matter whatís happened. And Iím confident in my ability to get her back. She was always the chaser and I got complacent (not justification for her actions but background).

Last edited by OS2; 01/16/20 06:52 PM.
Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2880998
01/16/20 07:58 PM
01/16/20 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OS2

Curious about the proof concept with texting. W was always on her phone with friends and of course OM. Is there a point where itís right to ask for proof of no contact or should I rely on knowing she wants to be with me through her actions? It seems counter intuitive to not care but I absolutely understand the logic and display of confidence behind it.

I will repeat my answer from above to this:

Originally Posted by Steve85

The time for full transparency on her part will come when she has come back AND been consistent in her actions and behavior for a time. Before that you run the risk of her going wayward on you again. TRUST me on that count. I lived it.


I will also add to that, if she is truly sorry for her actions than likely full transparency will be her idea! Because she will want to prove to you that she is no longer seeing OM. That she is committed to your marriage. That she is all in.

Originally Posted by OS2

I find detachment works so well in attracting attention like the dance thatís often described. I donít know whether I should be staying detached though or taking just some of the attention for meet-ups. I sometimes feel that our M (because weíre married just a short amount of time and in 30s) isnít appropriate for some of the severity of some of the DB rules which may include bad breakups, very wayward spouses, abusive, and repeat behaviour. I know that probably sounds naive because Iíve got a W who cheated but there is still a lot of love between us no matter whatís happened. And Iím confident in my ability to get her back. She was always the chaser and I got complacent (not justification for her actions but background).


All of us struggle with the idea that detachment can work. All of our instincts are that we should be pressuring. Pursuing. Going after our WAS like crazy. But that is what everyone does, and it results in a very low percentage of marriages saved.

Detachment is counter-intuitive....and that is why it works better. She expects you to jump at every breadcrumb she throws your direction. One of the biggest mistakes LBSs make is to get some breadcrumbs and to drop DBing, go back to pressuring and pursuing. That pushes the walkaway spouse right back to running away.

Like I said, when she is serious she is ready to come back, you will now. It will not be ambiguous. You won't have to guess. You will know with no doubt.


M(50), W(51),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2881005
01/16/20 08:42 PM
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Thank you Steve85, thatís really invaluable advice for me at the moment. I instructed her to end it with OM and was tempted to ask for proof but it just seemed too controlling. I made some slip ups when I found out as was emotionally involved of course. W has said she worries I will continue to be controlling (as I tended to be when I found out, and in charge of the house when we were M) given the A so this would act as a 180 for me too probably. It makes a lot of sense taking your approach with that.

I find the detachment remarkable, it really does work. I was distant when I saw her tonight and Iím getting meet-up requests, she wants to buy me things and sending me things online tonight.

Thanks for the advice, I will stay detaching and wait for change. Iím going abroad next week so will make sure I have a blast and let my hair down.

Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2881009
01/16/20 09:34 PM
01/16/20 09:34 PM
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You're right, telling her to stop contacting OM and then demanding evidence is controlling. If you have had issues with that then continuing to demonstrate controlling behavior can definitely confirm in her mind that he did the right thing. You have to go the exact opposite and just not give a crap. It is hard, but it is the only way you will show her you have changed.

In my first sitch in 2005, I had suspicions of my W's EA. I installed spy software on our PC and sure enough she was spending most of the day, and a lot of the nights when she was in our home office "working", IMing her EAP. He was on the hard press trying to get her to meet him. (Just thinking about it again boils my blood!) After I confronted her she immediately said she wanted to save the marriage, sent him a no contact email, life went on. She went through withdrawals really badly (this is a big sign you can look for, if your W really does end it with OM she will go through mourning withdrawals). About 6 weeks in the spy software caught an email to her girlfriends saying how much she missed him, and thought about him and was tempted to email him. That she felt like a caged animal. Then the next day it caught a very short email exchange between her and OM. And another email to her girlfriends saying she had contacted him and didn't care if I say it on the spyware.

That night I went home, uninstalled the spyware, told her she was free to do whatever she wanted and that I would do what I needed to do based on her decisions. The very next day I got home from work and she met me at the door and planted the most passionate kiss we had shared in years on me. The next morning she initiated sex. And from that moment on she was all in on the marriage again, her actions backed that up. Until our new sitch 2 years ago.

The point is that the old adage: "let them go and if it is meant to be they will come back". You are holding onto her so tight right now that she doesn't feel like she can comeback or the grip will tighten. Let her go. Start showing her that not only don't you care anymore, but that YOU are moving on without her, and you might just save your marriage. Holding on tight won't do it!


M(50), W(51),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2881023
01/16/20 11:33 PM
01/16/20 11:33 PM
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Thanks for sharing Steve85, some similarities in the approach with tracking. As I said before she was the chaser from the start but I got complacent. She wanted to impress me and win me over so for the first couple of years of the relationship she moulded herself to what she thought I wanted. Over the last few years I drowned myself in work and she started going out having a good time because I was boring. She went out one night and in a moment of madness (and over something really ridiculous) I tried to access one of her accounts to check something. It was stupid and I owned up immediately and apologised but she remembers that as being a breach of trust when she had nothing to hide. Fast forward to more recently I suspected for a while about the A and asked her about it which she staunchly denied. There were just too many clues and I needed to know so I gained access to one of her accounts and found out about the A. And of course she knows about that too. What I did is nothing to what she has done but itís still there. She says she is worried I will turn resentful because of what she has done. Weíve spoken about what we would ever do if we found out about an affair with a spouse years ago just in conversation when discussing another couple or something on TV. She said she would forgive the first time, I said I would divorce and could never trust that person again.

She said she wanted to tell me about the A but she feared I would maintain my world view and end the M. She has been really surprised at me wanting to work on our M and try and forgive her. She said she didnít think Iíd ďfight for her like I haveĒ. She finds that suspicious like I will turn bossy/nasty/unpleasant later (but I know I wouldnít let myself do that). As part of our early conversations I obviously hated the idea of her still seeing OM and talking to him. And I said the first things to demonstrate her efforts to reconcile would have to be enabling location tracking (was actually turned off over something silly just prior to the A but timing is convenient - she hates the idea of being monitored) and ending it with the OM. I like the security of the tracker but maybe under your experience I should consider turning it off and telling her the outcome of our relationship is based on her actions? I donít want to be a H that has to keep an eye on this W, I hate it and really doesnít feel good. Iíve told her the tracker isnít about being monitored itís about demonstrating thereís nothing to hide.

The thing that is really bugging me is that she has a wall up against moving things to the next level - moving back in, getting physical. Adding to the complication is that she is now house sitting for her parents so canít really move back straight away. At first I thought it was her being unhappy, then I thought it was OM, then I thought it was guilt (she said she didnít feel like she be close being false knowing what sheíd done). When the PA was outed she said a weight had been lifted. But the wall is still there. Donít know whether itís fear of coming back and not being happy/not being certain about our future, OM (grieving or still having feelings or even still seeing - she says sheís not bothered) or just emotional fallout thatís scrambled her game. She said last night she could probably turn the physical back on but sheís not ready. If itís OM I canít control that. If itís anything else I guess I need to detach and let her work it out which is my gameplan. Thing thatís ruining my resolve to follow that game plan is that she is wanting to connect several times a day now - buying me things, messaging me, updating me about her day, sharing songs etc. which is great and I want that to continue and get back. I also wonder whether shes shifting the role of OM back over to me. Another thing Iíve found very curious is her detailing things she liked about OM almost as if to ask me to do/be the same things for her. So thatís messing my game because I feel I need to be there for her to build up the relationship again and if Iím unavailable I wonít be there to build it with her. But a DBíer might call those many breadcrumbs for the time being?

Sorry for the long post.

Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2881030
01/17/20 12:30 AM
01/17/20 12:30 AM
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All I can tell you is that the best chance to get her back is to stop trying to get her back. Pressure and pursuit give you a 99% chance of ending up divorced. DBing really well gives you a way better chance. I suggest a 50/50 chance though some of the vets here claim that it is less than that. The point is it is still much higher odds than pressure and pursuit.

You're still putting too much stock in her words. Believe nothing she says. She's a liar and a cheater and must earn your trust back.


M(50), W(51),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2881148
01/17/20 06:05 PM
01/17/20 06:05 PM
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How is it best to handle accusations of being cold and punishing her when detaching?

Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2881149
01/17/20 06:07 PM
01/17/20 06:07 PM
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Validation


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ďDon't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.Ē- Will Smith
Re: Help with WW [Re: OS2] #2881151
01/17/20 06:19 PM
01/17/20 06:19 PM
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Steve85 Online
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Originally Posted by OS2
How is it best to handle accusations of being cold and punishing her when detaching?


I agree 100% with LH...but first: Do not believe anything she says (even accusations of being cold and punishing her when detaching). WSs/WASs will use any tool at their disposal to try to get the LBS to remain attached. Don't fall for it. Your distance is giving her what she asked for. No one moves out and lives with their parents and then expects their husband to remain completely plugged into everything they are doing. It doesn't make logical sense!


M(50), W(51),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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