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he also announced in his argument today that "everyone is depressed and if they say they aren't then they are lying".

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Quick update. H has raised again about leaving. I think I responded ok ďkeep me updated with your plansĒ

I also said that Iím not going to be his plan B. Not sure if I should have said this but it came out.

I have detached more. Is this still what I should keep on with now. Pleasant and friendly but not telling him everything etc and not making much conversation. I wonít assist him in any way to leave.

I did go out for a drive and had a good cry in the car. Didnít want him to see my little break down. I also came back with take out for myself, and nothing for him which I have never done and he didnít like that. He even asked our son to pass him my drink!

He is also hating me saying ďI might take the kids hereĒ instead of ďwe could take the kids hereĒ and thatís not something Iím saying on purpose to hurt him. I think itís out of detaching from him.

He said I have changed and heís ďnot a fanĒ.He means my new ways. Also a big part of the downfall in our R is that he felt rejected and pushed away. Nor many hugs etc and he raised last night hat I havenít tried to hug him.

I know I should do the counter intuitive but itís hard when he is stood there getting upset and telling me things are getting worse. Makes me question what Iím doing I suppose.

K

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Kirsty,

Your response about him moving out is very good. I wouldn't have changed a thing. Continue as you have been, i.e., pleasant and friendly.

Of course, he doesn't like the new you. He can't understand why you are going on w/your life as if nothing is wrong. He wants you just as miserable as he is and you don't want to go down in that rabbit hole w/him. He is also going to do things to try to get you to revert back to your old self...don't take the bait! He wants you to cry, beg and/or plead w/him. He wants you to get angry and if you are angry, you will tell him to leave. Don't fall for the bait. If he truly wants to leave, he will need to leave on his own. In his mind, he needs a justification for walking out that door...don't give him that satisfaction.

You are doing great. The one thing that I wouldn't bring up again is that you aren't going to be Plan B. You stated it, now leave it be.

Continue moving forward and stay strong!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks Job

He is insistent at every opportunity to talk about the R, his feelings. How I havenít been there for him and he feels unloved and unwanted. That we had not much conversation etc.

Early on after BD before I found out about ow I took responsibility for all these things, agreed that I had allowed these things to happen and hat gaps had been left for an affair to take place. I apologised and said that although I couldnít take anything back I could only work moving forward. That was before I found you guys so Iím not sure if what I did was good or bad.

He is saying now that I said all this stuff and agreed with where I had gone wrong in the R and that Iím not doing anything to change those things. Which I havenít been doing as these are things like more conversation, more affection, etc etc because I am detaching.

If I say ďI understand how you feelĒ he repeats it back to me in the next breath like Iím playing a game, calling me a robot etc.

Itís becoming difficult to avoid the R talk and Iím getting a bit stuck on what to say differently. I talked a little about how I felt and that after discovering the ow I have been hurt and working through things.

He has also said that he will not put any effort in, why should he because he has for 2 years and been hurt and rejected. What should I say to this?

I have wanted to say that it needs two people with consistent effort to make change but Iím not sure what to say. If I say he needs to commit to the R then is that too much pressure?

K

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Hi Kirsty, Absolutely too much pressure. He is not your son who you advise and guide, he is your H. He seems to want the status of H and the commitment of a son. A son doesn't need to shoulder the burdens of a relationship he just expects his mum to provide.

This journey is hard for you, very hard. I think the best way for you is to detach completely from any relationship expectation. He cannot be there for you right now so accept it. When you see any signs he is behaving as an H let him know. Otherwise stay dark. He is not in a position to negotiate right now because he is behaving as a child. If he describes his predicament to his friends they will tell him( if they're mature themselves ). Look for the good signs and be as patient as you would be if he had any other diagnosed mental illness. Don't be guilt-tripped by a manipulating child. Stay firm and understand you must look after your own needs while he is indulging in his fantasy. He may or may not come back but it is not your fault. Do what you need to do to get through this-you are only human.


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P.S. My guess: He will be irritated by your detachment but that does not diminish your attraction - which is eminently still present because he is trying to manipulate you. A sympathetic demeanour( as if he has a mental illness ) from you and consumate self-control will keep the pot boiling. When he begins to take responsibility for his actions and you respond favourably he will start to do what works and you will be on the road to recovery.


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Thanks Family Man.

It is very hard. I think because he is still at home and in the same bed etc it is hard to not want to reach out and hug him. I have to remind myself every morning and force myself to detach. Iím also wondering what if he doesnít move out and stays in the home what the next steps will be. I thought he would have left by now as we are nearly 5 months since BD.

I suppose I just ride the wave and see what happens?

I had thought the intense sad period had passed for me but Iíve found these past few days that it has come back round. I think he finds me attractive still. He has commented that he likes my new shoes, clothes etc and I can tell there is something there despite all denial. I was allowing him to hug me in bed this week and we had been playfully flirting but since he ow has got back from vacation he has gone back to nothing. I think he thinks he is being unfaithful to the ow now!

I will continue to detach and move forward.

We spent yesterday out as a family, and it was tough. He kept commenting nastily on my looks and when a wasp wouldnít leave me alone ďwell, someone has to find you attractiveĒ I obviously didnít respond. Iím trying to do as I would with my kids, ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good.

How much conversation should I be making?

K

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Detachment is hard when you're in the same house( and bed ).
Originally Posted by Kirsty84
I was allowing him to hug me in bed this week and we had been playfully flirting

These perks are not compatible with detachment and H does not deserve them. Do not try to compete with a fantasy relationship - you cannot win that one. You need to establish some boundaries. No intimacy at all unless he behaves respectfully and even then keep it minimal - he must finish wanting more for him to maintain his progress. Show him that it is you who rations out the tender moments and don't be a pushover. As for conversation - that is intimacy in its minimal form. Short, matter of fact answers is all he deserves.

Last edited by Family Man; 08/25/19 09:25 AM.

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Hi Kirsty

Why are you putting yourself in this position and playing happy families so that he has opportunity to abuse you? Now you've seen how he is prepared to behave, I hope you'll think twice about doing it again.

Get him out of the marital bedroom. You are allowing his cake eating by 'allowing him to hug you in bed' which he wants to do because his OW is away.

If that forces him to leave and be in the arms of the OW, then so be it. He's already in the arms of the OW anyway, he just has the comforts of his home and family whilst he's doing it.

You cannot repair this marriage whilst there is an OW. He will be thriving on the drama of 2 women fighting over him. Get out of the drama, do not perform in his circus. You can only repair and look after yourself at the moment.

That means no R talks. At all. You are not at a stage where you can analyse who did what in the marriage until he has dumped OW and shown very very clearly that he wants to work on the M. At the moment he is showing very clearly that he doesn't, but occasionally throwing you a crumb to keep you attached.

And I'm sorry, but you need to stop all this 'I'm to blame for creating an atmosphere where he had an affair' No you did not. You did not create a liar and a cheat. He always had the option to act in a decent manner if he didn't want to be in the M anymore. That one is all on him.

Conversation wise, respond pleasantly and that is it. Treat him like a room mate. Give yourself a holiday from being his wife. Take a step back.

I have been where you are. Lots of us here have. I promise you that if you get out of the drama and take a step back, you will see things much more clearly. He is totally disrespecting you. It is now up to you to remind yourself that you have self respect irrespective of what he is doing. You have to respect yourself enough to know that you shouldn't be treated like this, even if you want to save the marriage. Somebody on here posted that 'you don't know you've been living under a cloud until you step into the sunshine' Free yourself from the drama and darkness and step into the sunshine.

Thinking of you Kirsty. (((hug)))

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Thanks Family Man. You are right and I think because we slipped into some 'normal' version of our R on vacation it carried over once we returned home. After BD and before I found out about the OW, I found detachment easier which sounds odd. He didn't want anything to do with me at all, no conversation at all etc etc from May to end of July when I found out about OW. I became stronger but seem to have relapsed with the new situation of knowing the truth.

He does behave like my son generally. Doesn't take responsibility for much. Everything has always been someone else fault. I pay all the bills on time, file his tax returns etc and sort his accounts (which I have stopped doing). He has walked over me for far too long.

Thanks Yorkie, you are right he is disrespecting me. If he brings up the R should I say that I will not discuss the R while the OW is still on the scene? H also keeps asking why I am not trying or making the effort so I need a good answer as I can't really ignore it. So a similar answer to the OW being on the scene?

During this journey so far he has brought up the lack of love from his parents and with his Dads passing last year I think this is a big issue. I just tried to listen when he started talking about this. He then linked it to me by saying that he won't put up with lack of love from me and deserves someone who shows it. I just said I understood how he feels.

In regards to the marital bed - I allowed him to stay in it to protect the children, he would be on the sofa and the kids would ask why. So I'm not sure how to best handle it.

He is quite controlling generally anyway. E.g I cleared our daughters room to make way for a new bed and furniture as she has outgrown it and he has put everything back and told her and me that she will not be getting a new bed.

Thanks for all the advice. You are all keeping me sane and positive.

K

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